Are Americans weird when it comes to guns?

[Otter]

I would agree that safeguards need to be in place. But let's face it. If you're messed in the head, and you want to go out and buy a weapon and create mass havoc, you can do it. It doesn't have to be a gun, could be a pipe bomb, an IED, razor blades in the park grass. Sick is sick. Where there's a will, there's a way, no safeguards will ever be able to protect against unhinged lunatics bent on destruction.

[ginat]

Man, Tomcat, you seem like such a nice kid and I'm really sorry to hear this is happening to you and the people you care about. I'm praying for peace for you and yours. I can't imagine the shock and sadness you all are feeling now.

[northswell]

I kind of agree with you Otter, but we have mixed up kids too, but they don't go on these same killing frenzies.

As most people have said if you wanted a gun you could probably get one. The difference is between, over here and US, is that its harder to get hold of guns. If they are lying in your parents bedroom or your of an age that you can legally own one it makes the whole event much more easy to plan and carry out.

In reply to Chezee, i think the measures brought in after Hungerford were along the right lines. The ones after Dunblane were, well knee jerk.

[Real Pol]

Its all about the gun! If these things were done with a shot gun or a rifle, we’d be having a different conversation, but they are all happening with hand guns and semi automatics, they have no use except for killing PEOPLE.

Saying if guns were criminalised would only mean criminals could have them is just an excuse, how do you think people with criminal records get them in the first place? Cos legitimate people sell them to them. Saying it is all to do with the person holding the gun is just shying away from the main picture. A Canadian said that criminalising the guns wouldn’t help as 90% of gun crime (in Canada) is done by illegally imported guns…..where did these guns come from? Greenland? Russia? Mexico? No the US where it is far too easy for virtually every citizen to gather an arsenal, which allows that very small percentage of psycho, (which we have in every country) to do the unthinkable which happened on Monday. Allowing every American to own a gun did not help yesterday.

In countries such as the UK, where hand guns are banded, if I went mental and wanted to do something like that I’d have to head down to Glasgow and start asking around in dodgy places and be really committed! Not go to my local shop after a couple of weeks of waiting on a clearing list.

None of these people who have ever done this type of thing have had criminal records, so the only thing to do is band all non hunting weapons! How you get all the ones that are already in society out is another matter which I don’t have an answer for.

How many more times does this type of thing have to happen before it is realised something has to change?

[Milo]

It`s very sad when something like this happen`s. Play with fire -
We do have gun crime`s here, but the main problem in our schools is knife attack`s. Kids stabbing each other, the worlds gone mad.

[^*^BATMAN^*^]

North Swell has it right there. There is a far higher instance of violent crimes in the US then other places in the world. Hell in Canada we are so much the same, yet in so many ways we are different. I think it has alot to do with the mentality they are raised with. Like alot to do with the parents. Then again alot couldnt be...who knows.

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

news is he bought the guns legally a few months ago.

kinda says something doesnt it? maybe it would halp if they were "harder to get a hold of"

who needs a concealable glock anyway?

[RJD]

That state's law says you can only buy one gun a month.

He bought one mid march, a second a few days ago (as soon as he could) then killed 32 people.

He was suicidal, i.e. resigned to dying in the process himself & only intrested in body count. It was premeditated.

If he couldnt get guns he could have killed 32.

If everyone was armed he may still have killed most or all of those & then you'd have a school full of tooled up students scared out of their minds pointing guns at a whole load of tooled up students. And no one knowing who was the bad guy.

This is why police loudly anounce there cops when they have guns, so you know who the good guy is...

If he didnt have access to guns(of which the point is purely a means to kill people) he mebe could have killed his 2 targets and prehaps a few other people.

[Stone Fox]

(he was in British Para regiment,

randomly enough, i spent some time with 266 parachute battery, 7para RHA.

but anyway, i give up on this argument. No offence mean t to anyoen but americans will never undeerstand what life is like in a non gun orientated culiture. That shiz doesnt really happen her.e

[Otter]

Sorry lads, our Constitution gaurantees our rights to keep and bear arms. Sorry you don't approve. Oh well.

[RJD]

Sorry lads, our Constitution guarantees our rights to keep and bear arms. Sorry you don't approve. Oh well.

That's a seriously dubious claim and then some.

But its not about us approving. Its about 30,000 Americans being killed a year.

Even if your constitution is interpreted correctly(big stretch) don't you think its about time you rethought it, this is one of those cases where the rights of the individual should give way for the betterment of the state as a whole.

[^*^BATMAN^*^]

Sorry lads, our Constitution guarantees our rights to keep and bear arms. Sorry you don't approve. Oh well.

That's a seriously dubious claim and then some.

But its not about us approving. Its about 30,000 Americans being killed a year.

Even if your constitution is interpreted correctly(big stretch) don't you think its about time you rethought it, this is one of those cases where the rights of the individual should give way for the betterment of the state as a whole.

Eh, this is something that has been going on for ever though. Same thing now where some states are trying to make wearing a helmet while on a bike manditory. There are loads of people fighting it saying it is their choice whether to wear a helmet or not...The law is to force people to be safe....same difference. There are so many people in North America that argue for the sake of arguing.

You are correct RJD in how the constitution is taken at face value. The right to bear arms is seen as an allowance to own firearms....that my friends is one interpretation.....

[tomcat360]

If everyone was armed he may still have killed most or all of those & then you'd have a school full of tooled up students scared out of their minds pointing guns at a whole load of tooled up students. And no one knowing who was the bad guy.

Was that in reference to what the guy from Virginia Citizens Defence League said? Because that guy was out of his mind, and about 99% of Americans would agree with that. That's why he wasn't saying anything on our news, because people would have gone to his house and killed him the old fashion way, pitchforks.

That group is completely radical in their beliefs. It should be known that that is NOT the American mentallity towards this subject.

[Otter]

Sorry lads, our Constitution guarantees our rights to keep and bear arms. Sorry you don't approve. Oh well.

That's a seriously dubious claim and then some.

But its not about us approving. Its about 30,000 Americans being killed a year.

Even if your constitution is interpreted correctly(big stretch) don't you think its about time you rethought it, this is one of those cases where the rights of the individual should give way for the betterment of the state as a whole.

No, I don't think we need to rethink the Constitution. "Seriously dubious?" I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Is it that the amendment should be modified to reflect "no hand guns" or are rifles and shotguns OK? Or should the U.S. completely disarm it's citizens, like Hitler and Stalin did?

[RJD]

Eh, this is something that has been going on for ever though. Same thing now where some states are trying to make wearing a helmet while on a bike manditory.

No, you fall of a bike you hurt yourself (I live in a country where its a requirement both types of bike). Guns affect other people, you cant choose not to be shot.

"Seriously dubious?" I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this.

I mean the second amendment is pathetically worded and quite ambiguous, its not the only historical document (nor even modern law) which is poorly worded, yet its at the center of the whole gun argument in the US.

Do you really thing the US populace would rise up to for a militia against the government?

Is it that the amendment should be modified to reflect "no hand guns" or are rifles and shotguns OK? Or should the U.S. completely disarm it's citizens, like Hitler and Stalin did?

Tighter gun control than "here you go, come back next month for another one".

UK has tight gun control & since then hasn't had any massacres, NZ has tight gun control & hasn't had any massacres. Both countries remain democracies too.

Gun control can be implemented, even in the US, Had it been done in January 33 more people would now probably be alive.

You have stricter laws on smoking & vehicle emissions than guns.

[paulS]

It just crazy how easy it is to get your hands on a gun....
Whoever owned that gun should be held fully responsible too...
If your deemed responsible enough to own a gun then they should be responsible enough to keep it under lock n key..not so some jerk who's had a shitty week and go 'oh i know, dads (or whoever) got a gun..lets go and shoot some ppl'...that is very rare here cos guns are just not easily accessable...

Youre never gonna stop criminals but we're talking about your everyday 'fleshin' off with life' type here....it's not the first time n won't be the last....why the American Gov't are so stubborn about this is crazy...look at gun-related deaths in countries where guns are outlawed...it's VERY VERY simple....it's not rocket science

Ive just heard the on the news that guy who sold the gun is blaming the Uni for having a ban on guns...WTF...this debate shoudn't even be happening, you can't smoke in a public building in the US but you can go and buy lethal weapon like going to frickin Tescos..

How anyone can defend the right for any person to own a gun is beyond me.....hmmm may go buy myself a shiny new tank today...

(Anyway, Tomcat hope all is good for you)

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

That group is completely radical in their beliefs. It should be known that that is NOT the American mentallity towards this subject.

i think it should be known that not all americans want rights to guns as well. most of the people i know want guns outlawed. i think they should be restricted.

like i said earlier, who needs a quick- reloading glock anyways? or an automatic for that matter? not a hunter.

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

Speaking of Wierd Americans, whatever happened to mr "aspensucksexceptforsnowboarding" ?

We haven't heard from him in a while...

ive been busy and plus this board has been pretty dull lately by my tastes.

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

man what sucks for me about these shootings is people suddenly start thinking theyre all psychologists and come along consoling me because im the quiet kid in class. thats an insult to me both as a harmless shy person and as a psychology major. anyone who actually knows me doesnt even consider me a possible psychopath for one second. when i was in intermediate school and columbine happend i actually got called to the office because they thought i was some beginnings of a psychopath being bullied. i wasnt a weirdo, i was the only white kid in that entire fricken school. of course they picked on me.

[Stone Fox]

Speaking of Wierd Americans, whatever happened to mr "aspensucksexceptforsnowboarding" ?

We haven't heard from him in a while...

ive been busy and plus this board has been pretty dull lately by my tastes.

Strangely enough, I kind of missed you. The board is duller without you. You have a particular gift for causing heated debates / flame wars.