Are "Magic Boards" age + time in your life contingent?

[TeeBee89]

Was just reading over this thread and chiming in with my likely useless advice, but got to thinking: are "magic boards" mostly contingent on age, fitness, and that specific time in your life when those things and your circumstances happily align to make a board just click? I often read that you shouldn't pine away over losing that magic board and endlessly search to find a perfect copy of it. Curious what others think or have found.

Five years ago, a Spider Bomb at 6'7, 21 3/4, and 42L was that board for myself, that I could get up in going in ankle high, yet still feel relatively confident and comfortable on in 6'. Younger, better fitness, had the time and opportunity to travel, and was just more hungry to improve. Now I'm being utterly ruthless in my self-assessments and currently opting for a 7'2 Torq Fish, focusing on wave count and refining my technique/basics that I feel jumping around to different styles and sizes, plus time out of the water, has dulled since the 6'7 days.

Does this just happen? Thanks all!

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=39220&p=235529#p235529

https://www.spidersurfboards.co.uk/surf ... surfboard/

[oldmansurfer]

I haven't been one to search for a magic board however if you are still wanting to learn and choosing boards that make you have a lower wave count then you need another board. Or be prepared to work hard with that board to get into better shape so you can catch more waves with it. The boards that will work for you depends largely on your fitness and skill and wave knowledge and the waves you surf. When you get good enough then it becomes what do you want to do (realistically) and can you do that with the board you have? I am a frim believer that changing boards often makes surfing more dangerous. There isn't likely a board that will make you surf better but there are boards that will allow you to learn better. So if you are not a fit as you one were then you may need a bigger board.

[TeeBee89]

"Or be prepared to work hard with that board to get into better shape so you can catch more waves with it."

Thanks! Poses the interesting question if that 'magic board' at a certain stage in your life became magic precisely because you were prepared to paddle harder.
Argh, you mean these hybrid shapes won't immediately make you a better surf?

Not really a question of fitness, more age. As I push 40 I'm starting to wonder if it becomes a question of accepting diminishing returns and getting a bigger board, or can I still set the goal of shorter if I'm prepared to accept a little more painful work?
Why do you say changing boards often is dangerous?
That's very interesting btw. I've always heard the 'ride everything' mantra, but had the sense it didn't allow you to keep equipment constant amid changing wave conditions.

[oldmansurfer]

There are as a recurring theme I saw with surfers who went out in critical surfing conditions, when it’s easier to get injured on a new surfboard. A large percentage of them would end up injured. This and my own experience of doing the wrong thing in critical places because I have instincts that work for the board I was using prior. Consequently I think you should use the same board most of the time but you can change when it’s small and inconsequential. The whole idea that you “need” a particular board for particular conditions is mostly false. You can learn to ride most boards in most conditions. Some boards might be better but mostly they will work acceptably and be safer because you’re familiar with it. (My opinion). Also every board that I ever used much was a “magic board”

[waikikikichan]

I'm just going to throw out some rambling / thoughts from reading this post in no particular order.

1) I think you are confused with what a "Magic" board is compared to a board that works for you. If you have a certain shape, size, ( need I say ) volume, etc. that is your "go-to" and works, once in awhile after have a certain number of boards made to that criteria from the same shaper, maybe one in 20 might come out as "Magic".

2) Ben Aipa ask me in his shaping bay as I stood to the side, "So you want me make you a fast board .......... OR a board you can make go fast ?" Before I could answer he said, " think about that for a moment ". I want to ask you the same about "Magic" boards.

3) If you use Tiger Wood's clubs, will you be a better golfer ? What if you get a hold of John John's personal boards. Should you order a Pyzel becuase John John rides for him ?

4) I buy "lightly used" boards from a shaper that makes multiple boards every year for a Pro surfer. That pro tries them and if he doesn't like it, he turns it in, gives feedback and gets another. One of the boards that didn't work out for him turned out to be my ultimate "Magic" board. This board literally surfs by mind control. It's so good, I take it out of storage only for use in contests. I ain't going to risk it free surfing in crowds. So ones man's trash is another man's treasure.

[TeeBee89]

"You can learn to ride most boards in most conditions."

This might be an unpopular view, but I've long felt that you haven't really mastered the basics until you've developed a knack for taking off on a minimal in steep conditions.
Good points, though. Swapping between singles and 3 I think did more harm than good for my own development.

waikikikichan, these thoughts are really helpful!
1 & 2: never really thought to make a distinction between "magic" and the go-to daily driver. I guess what you're asking is 'make a magic board,' or a 'board that you can make magic?'

[oldmansurfer]

Fast boards are what I like because I can make any board go fast but a fast board can go even faster. Boards have a top speed so whatever you do to make them go fast they top out at some speed but a fast board has a higher top speed so it tops out at a faster speed. Speed is what you need to make waves often and slowing down is easier than speeding up so I like fast boards. For me I guess my opinion of what a magic board is one that works really well for you and allows you to do things that you never thought you could do. This would be just about every board that I surfed a lot. I guess maybe that isn't a magic board but just getting boards dialed in.

[waikikikichan]

Again, I think the title of the post is confusing for most readers that haven't had dozens of surfboard and surfing at an advanced level.

And I don't think a molded-epoxy surfboard will be "Magic", but it will be consistently good. Say you do buy the Torq 7'2" and it works for you and your really like it, say it gets dinged badly on the rocks, you can go buy another one that rides EXACTLY like the one you had. Say you go on a trip or move to a different country, if that place has a Torq distributor there, the 7'2" board will ride exactly like the one you had.

"Magic" boards come in to play with Hand-Shaped. Let's take a number, say out of 20 boards, one is "magic". "But why, aren't they shaped by the same person, at the same factory ?" There's over 70 steps that go into making a surfboard, and any one change, changes the outcome. A big difference is the Glassing and Sanding. When I worked at Town & Country surf, I heard Sunny Garcia would take out a piece of sand paper in his board shorts when surfing a new board for the first time. He would "adjust" the edge on the rails ( and glassed on fins ).

Say you had to make your own Pencils to write and Forks to eat, they all would probably "work" for their intended purpose. But now and then you'll come upon one that works really well and is well balanced. That is same for a hand shaped surfboard.

[Naeco78]

"Magic" boards come in to play with Hand-Shaped. Let's take a number, say out of 20 boards, one is "magic". "But why, aren't they shaped by the same person, at the same factory ?" There's over 70 steps that go into making a surfboard, and any one change, changes the outcome. A big difference is the Glassing and Sanding. When I worked at Town & Country surf, I heard Sunny Garcia would take out a piece of sand paper in his board shorts when surfing a new board for the first time. He would "adjust" the edge on the rails ( and glassed on fins ).

Yeah, i've heard that about Magic Boards.. they can never be replicated to that exact same feel that the "Magic" one had. Some of them have even been mistake boards that got warped in a hot car (epoxy) and created just the right Vee out of the tail etc. Wouldnt try that intentionally though But yeah finding the Magic Boards seems few and far between.

[TeeBee89]

""Magic" boards come in to play with Hand-Shaped. Let's take a number, say out of 20 boards, one is "magic". "But why, aren't they shaped by the same person, at the same factory ?" There's over 70 steps that go into making a surfboard, and any one change, changes the outcome. A big difference is the Glassing and Sanding. When I worked at Town & Country surf, I heard Sunny Garcia would take out a piece of sand paper in his board shorts when surfing a new board for the first time. He would "adjust" the edge on the rails ( and glassed on fins )."

I remember seeing an interview with Brian Hilbers, where he talks about experimentation and shaping in the 1970s, offhand comment about "shaper dropped too much acid" and bang shaped this particular board he found hard to replicate later. In other words, your points on hand shaped vs. machine (Hilbers talks about that too) are well taken.
Although I like what oldmansurfer said about a board being magic once you've gotten it dialled in. I guess I was asking a more philosophical question vs. practical than I'd perhaps realized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xID61OOice0

[oldmansurfer]

I think lots of surfers are looking for that board that suits their style of surfing at the moment. They want a board that will allow them to do everything they are capable of at the moment. They hope that this new board will help them surf better. Realistically there are benefits to designs but also detriments. So helps in one aspect but makes it harder in another. So for beginners or anyone wanting to learn, a board that allows them to catch more waves is the ticket however it might not allow them to do whatever maneuver they think they want to do but it will bring them closer to that goal. Perhaps I have a skewed perspective on boards because I have almost entirely used custom made boards made specifically for me. I have always tried to learn to use the board I have to do whatever I can make it do. I might have kind of a dinosaur mentality because I don't care what others are doing and just keep working with what I have even though there are new improved stuff around me. But I develop "relationships" with my boards. I come to love them and what they can do. I will usually stick to a particular board regardless of the conditions. That way I learn what that board can do and develop the instincts for that board, Maybe it's not ideal but I can make it work and when facing a critical situation that requires rapid decision making my instincts will be for the board I am riding..

Yeah making surfboards is part art and part science and the variability in even machine made boards can make a difference to someone. I however don't worry about that and learn to use the board I have. It took me a few years to use a leash once they were available and when multiple fins came out I continued to use a single fin because I didn't see anyone doing anything I couldn't do with my single fin. Now I use quads because that is what my shaper made for me. and I am used to it. Multiple fin surfing was very difficult for me to switch to from single fins. Took me years of surfing to get used to it. New things come out but I am unlikely to improve my surfing to where it will be attractive to me as well as going back to a single fin won't likely happen. But who knows? LOL I am just a dinosaur.

[TeeBee89]

" I might have kind of a dinosaur mentality because I don't care what others are doing and just keep working with what I have even though there are new improved stuff around me. But I develop "relationships" with my boards. I come to love them and what they can do."

Nah. Certainly not going to fault you for showing no interest in airs for example. I never understood that craze ten years ago and when I think of the popularity of mid-lengths now vs. the crap hipsters used to take for riding "retro," I chuckle a bit.

https://www.swaylocks.com/comment/285389

Good points OMS, I learned a lot here. Honestly not sure I'll go back to a single, despite the nostalgia at times. Have ridden without a leash and you know, in an uncrowded area in small conditions I would recommend doing it even just once. It really teaches you to pick your waves and not just jump off at the end of a ride, etc.

[oldmansurfer]

What I used to do with a single fin is on very steep fast waves I would turn at the top and what happened is the board would sideslip down the face of the wave till the fin contacted the water and then it shot forward so the dropping motion was changed to forward motion by the fin. If you asked me if I thought I could do this before I would have said no way but that is what I used to do. With multiple fins the board is very resistant to side slipping on the face although I have done it a few times on smaller waves it may be almost an air drop. I did do an actual air drop off an approximately 8 foot face wave because of that instinct to turn at the top of a wave. I was riding my 8 foot funboard and turned at the top of a steep wave quickly realizing my mistake I tried to straighten out and pointed the board to the shore however the wave had gone concave below me and I just fell off the top of the wave. I somehow managed to land it and keep going. It was one of those moments I call "Matrix moments" because everything slows down and it seems like you have a lot of time to respond. I recall initially as I fell I brought my legs up to me and the board came along with it then as I approached the bottom I extended my legs to push the board back into the water. After landing solidly and shooting out away from the wave I remember thinking WOW! I am still on the board!! and then I made my bottom turn and kept going on the wave at normal speed (the end of the Matrix moment). I have no idea how I managed to pull that off. But I can tell you I loved that board even more for allowing me to do it.

[TeeBee89]

"What I used to do with a single fin is on very steep fast waves I would turn at the top and what happened is the board would sideslip down the face of the wave till the fin contacted the water and then it shot forward so the dropping motion was changed to forward motion by the fin."

I'm likely not understanding this correctly, but is this akin to "loading up" the fin that you hear people who use 4A's (I'm a big fan btw) and/or other flex fins and displacement hulls talk about?

That air drop is insane! I like that matrix moment. On an 8 funboard is incredible, I'm happy enough just getting away with a late drop in steep conditions, far back, "power squat"

[oldmansurfer]

Loading up the fin is what happens when you turn but this is on a steep wave and only the rail is in the water initially so the fin is in the air and not loading anything. The rail holds a bit but the board slips sideways down the wave until the fin makes contact with the water as the wave goes from vertical to sloping out in front of it. I used to wonder what was happening because when I went backside sometimes the lip would be on my shoulder as I dropped down the wave then the board just took off and left the lip behind. I first figured it out when one of the other surfers asked me about side slipping down the face of the wave and I responded "that's crazy" and then I suddenly realized he was talking about me and so I asked him is that what I am doing and he said "Yep." I was at Pokemois in Kalihiwai which is a fast steep right but I guess it worked for me so I kept doing it even though it seemed impossible.

[waikikikichan]

I'm likely not understanding this correctly, but is this akin to "loading up" the fin that you hear people who use 4A's (I'm a big fan btw) and/or other flex fins and displacement hulls talk about?

“Loading Up” is like pulling back a bow string taut, then releasing its energy. You can’t just jerk it, you have to be smooth.

In OMS’s scenario, it's like a branch falling horizontally parallel to the ground. If one end of that branch comes into contact with a fence or tree limb on its way down, that end will momentarily stop. Then the other end will accelerate ( by gravity and momentum ) and go from horizontal to more vertical.
A good surfer can use the directional realignment to his/her advantage. While a beginner will get violently bucked off.

OMS, you remember that famous photo of Barry Kanaiaupuni taking this steep drop, but there’s a big gap in his trail line ? That’s what you do.

[oldmansurfer]

OMS, you remember that famous photo of Barry Kanaiaupuni taking this steep drop, but there’s a big gap in his trail line ? That’s what you do.

If you talking about side slipping down the face of the wave, my board is pointed down the line and it's not that big of a wave that I did it on maybe up to 8 feet Hawaiian and it is only with a single fin board because the fins on the side stop this from working. But I think I have done a similar sideslip on a huge 17 foot day (single fin) at Hanalei just not on the drop, That day I was doing some skipping air drops taking off with the board pointed straight down the wave but the side slipping happened doing huge top to bottom turns for speed. I recall thinking if there was even a little bump on the face I might loose the edge but it was glassy. The wall was so vertical I am sure the fin wasn't in the water. As far as that goes that kind of skip while dropping down a wave is why some people think you should have a boat nosed board (like my current board). I guess it doesn't slow down as much when the nose hits. Boat nose and all I find it very difficult to stay on my board for skips like that unless I am going straight down the face as the board does a little squiggle when it lands if I am the least bit going down the line. But those skips mostly happen on larger surf than what I used to do the sideslip. What I was talking about is turning down the line on a steep face at the top and only the rail is in the water. The rail holds a little but and the board moves forward a little but doesn't really take off till the fin engages when board has slid down the wave to where it is less steep. So the rail stays in the wave not skipping just sliding.

[waikikikichan]

I guess I was asking a more philosophical question vs. practical than I'd perhaps realized.

Okay, since we're talking in more philosophical terms rather than practical .......

1) Is it the Arrow or the Indian ? Will a "Magic" arrow still fly straight if the user jerks the bow string ?

2) It's been said, "A Good surfer can surf ANY board". So if a bad surfer has a "Magic" board, will that board help even things out ?

3) Could a "Magic" board be a Costco Wavestorm ? ( Or it must be a custom hand shaped from a famous brand shaper )

4) If your Magic board is now 10 years old and you are now 10 years older and 10 Kgs. heavier, will that board still work as "Magic" ?

5) Say this board is highly touted by your friends as "Magic" board . But your skills aren't up to that level yet. When will you know ? How will you know ?

[TeeBee89]

Philosophical is more useful in teasing out concepts we hope to then apply to the practical.

I'll demonstrate:

1) Is it the Arrow or the Indian ? Will a "Magic" arrow still fly straight if the user jerks the bow string ?

"Native" to avoid summoning a cancel mob. Cheeky Answer: yes. See film "Immortals (2011)."

2) It's been said, "A Good surfer can surf ANY board". So if a bad surfer has a "Magic" board, will that board help even things out ?

Yes. Example: eggs are widely touted as being "user friendly," their particular design is "more forgiving" of the mistakes beginners tend to make, abetting progression (could also be argued as being subjectively magic for the beginner, who doesn't know any better). I'd cite Spyder Bomb and Fineline Egg as being examples of relatively beginner-intermediate friendly boards.

3) Could a "Magic" board be a Costco Wavestorm ? ( Or it must be a custom hand shaped from a famous brand shaper )

What the hell: yes. Given the amount of complaining I read on forums about these wavestorm users being wave hogs
However, this could be subjective again. The individual wavestorm user might not be having a magical experience = magic board, but in the views of others the "board" is an unfair and irritating wave magnet (SUPS too?).

4) If your Magic board is now 10 years old and you are now 10 years older and 10 Kgs. heavier, will that board still work as "Magic" ?

Now THIS is the question that inspired this initial thread and my own inquiry. My thoughts: no. Too many physical/practical variables have changed, being age, weight, presumably fitness, and unknown variables also being knowledge and surf spot. Also subjective, nostalgic memories might be affecting your judgement (I used to be fitter, this board used to turn better, I used to make more waves, etc.).

5) Say this board is highly touted by your friends as "Magic" board . But your skills aren't up to that level yet. When will you know ? How will you know ?

I immediately thought of a HS Hypto for some reason. To return to your last question: four to six years. I'll give a personal example: owned a 6'7 in 2010 that by all accounts was a magic board, but my skills weren't there yet. Four to five years later, with more time in the water and experience on different shapes, fitter, BUT also being older of course, that same board became magic. When/How? This might also be where the subjective comes in again: I just "realized" one day out in the lineup that these additional variables seemed to have produced this outcome for that particular board at that time. Two years later, those same variables had changed again and this board was no longer "magic."

Again, subjective: I struggled with a mini sims during that fad in 2012, thinking my lack of experience was the issue. I was partly right: friends took me aside and admitted these shapes were bunk and it wasn't just me. While a mini-mal/bigger egg would have suited me better, they argued I'd be clinically depressed if I ever went back to the MS and tried to make it work. Funny the effect fads and status seeking can also have on board selection and surf style sometimes, for better and worse.

[oldmansurfer]

There may be some variation to the definition of a magic board but at least for me it would have to apply to one person using the board. A model can't be a magic board because each board produced is slightly different. Beside for every model there will be surfers who can't make proper use of it. So the magic comes from the interaction of the surfer and the board. Friends can't tout a model as a magic board it's just a good board for them or they are misusing the term. If a board was good for them before but not now there are lots of reasons why that might be. Out of shape over weight loss of fitness and flexibility but these things can be fixed unless you have some injury. Another way is that your skill progresses beyond the board . But as far as I can tell real magic boards only happen to high end surfers. From the perspective of the pro surfers who came up with the term, they use it for a board which more than one board of exactly the same dimensions and shape was made for them which somehow worked better for them then the others with the exact same shape made by the same person. For most surfers, they are happy to just get a good board much less be able to tell the difference between how different boards work that are the exact same model and size. But maybe what this all represents is a change in language. Maybe everyone wants a magic board so they are liberating the term to mean something different than it did originally. Maybe it's marketing from the surfboard companies touting their boards as magic. Want to discuss magic boards then first have to agree on the definition.