Wide shorter board or longer board for these wavetypes

[Raysn29]

I have been surfing for 3 months, still have trouble popping up and with stability (strength/flexibility issues) so my progress is going slow, slower then my friends and I also surf only 1-2 a week for 2 hours.
I surf the North Sea in the Netherlands, which has steep and hollow waves, mostly wind swell like this: https://www.wannasurf.com/spot/Europe/N ... how&page=7

Now I have tested 2 boards I might want to buy


Board 1: Very wide but short with 7'0 x 25 3/8 x 3 85 liter. Much easier to pop up, more stable, seem to not pearl as much due too shorter size, easier to turtle roll big whitewash (we have a shitton of whitewash). This board feels better overall then board 2, but turns more difficult? Picture of the board : https://pukassurf.com/wp-content/upload ... ards26.jpg

Board 2: Very long with 8'6 x 23 x3 x 90 liter: Despite being longer, its more difficult for me to pop up, more difficult to stay stable/more pearling, but seems to turn easier?

So I guess I have 2 questions
1. Which board would be able to turn easier so I can practice going down the line, or do you guys think the difference between the 2 in turning is almost negligible?
2. Looking at the type of waves we have, which board would you guys suggest?

[oldmansurfer]

The first board is very wide with a wide tail that makes it harder to go rail to rail. Stability isn't often your friend from my perspective. The ultimate in stability is a board the will go whatever direction you point it in regardless of whatever else you do and float you like a boat so you can walk all over it and it won't tip over. Not the best situation unless you have no desire to turn the board. The other board gives you problems so is there some reason you only have these two choices? It sounds to me like the first board is good for you as long as you don't want to progress. I understand that some surfers want to relax and not progress their skills so if that is what you want then get that wide board. Ultimately you can learn on either board just that the challenges will be different but if you are wanting to learn to turn then don't get the wide board because it will take longer to learn.

[jaffa1949]

Hi Raysn, let's cut to the chase and give you some challenges.
You are in the very beginner stages of surfing, you will improve from this.
If you are having difficulty popping up not much else will be working yet, because by the time you organise your footing on the board most of the chance to do turns and anything else has gone.
You certainly would not be capable of handling the wave you posted ( which like most beach photos is one of the better day) .
North Sea surf by the nature of the bathymetry of the offshore banks is local wind swell, mushy short period, not particularly hollow or steep. Only a few days fit that description?
Slots of duck diving or turtle rolls to get out, .
Now about turning, neither board will be any different for you at this stage, it is you that needs to learn the skills of turning.
The boards, The Pukas is a float machine easy catch soft foam board, with rubber fins.
Fun but a user friendly early learning tool. That you will quickly outgrow in skill.
The 8'6" board, is it soft or hard, if it is a hard board, yes at this stage it would seem more difficult but it's dimensions would serve you well for quality learning. Not so user friendly in the beginning but a better board over the long run.
Post a picture or link of it just to make sure!
Your weight height and age would also help us suggest which board is suitable.
Other forumites will probably help with suggestion too.
Good news , one or twomtimes a week will give you some steady progress and each an everyone here progressed at their own rate!

[Raysn29]

Hi Raysn, let's cut to the chase and give you some challenges.
You are in the very beginner stages of surfing, you will improve from this.
If you are having difficulty popping up not much else will be working yet, because by the time you organise your footing on the board most of the chance to do turns and anything else has gone.
You certainly would not be capable of handling the wave you posted ( which like most beach photos is one of the better day) .
North Sea surf by the nature of the bathymetry of the offshore banks is local wind swell, mushy short period, not particularly hollow or steep. Only a few days fit that description?
Slots of duck diving or turtle rolls to get out, .
Now about turning, neither board will be any different for you at this stage, it is you that needs to learn the skills of turning.
The boards, The Pukas is a float machine easy catch soft foam board, with rubber fins.
Fun but a user friendly early learning tool. That you will quickly outgrow in skill.
The 8'6" board, is it soft or hard, if it is a hard board, yes at this stage it would seem more difficult but it's dimensions would serve you well for quality learning. Not so user friendly in the beginning but a better board over the long run.
Post a picture or link of it just to make sure!
Your weight height and age would also help us suggest which board is suitable.
Other forumites will probably help with suggestion too.
Good news , one or twomtimes a week will give you some steady progress and each an everyone here progressed at their own rate!

Hey amigo,
Thank you for that detailed respons! It seems like you know your way around the North Sea? Yes, a shitton of duckdiving or turtle roll. Because the waves break very rapidly near the shore, very short period and getting out is usually very difficult.

The Indio is indeed a wavemachine, its a soft top, but it does have hard fins, just soft edges. It feels way more stable then the 8'6 and makes surfing (for now easier).

The 8'6 is a sofftop too, it has hard fins with a soft edge too: https://www.decathlon.nl/p/foam-surfboa ... 90&c=BLAUW

Im 6'2 and 180 pounds, and lack flexibility (can barely deep squat)

[Oldie]

Hey Neighbour! The picture you post are dream conditions, probably not even 5 days per year like that.

If you look what people surf in Scheveningen, you will see a lot, and some quite good, longboarders with boards longer than 9ft (you see shortboarders and midlength as well) The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves that somehow pop up (short period) anywhere around you and behave different every time (thanks to wind and overlapping swells). That means you need to react fast or anticipate early, and you may feel that with a longer board you cannot do that. But you can - you need to start into the waves early, and paddle hart. If you cannot pop up on a 8.6, you need to work on the technique. I would rent/try a bit more and save the invested money into a teacher with indvidual lessons. You are so early in you development that it is still possible to avoid bad habits, and a teacher helps a lot, and after a few lessons he will also be able to advise you on the right board for you. Hartbeach & Aloha rent out decent boards at various sizes for little money, and they have a good school.

90l is a lot for your size. And honestly, why buy a softtop? If you are comitted to surfing, you will outgrow that fast.

This is one of the normal good days at the North Sea. Heavy onshore.

P.S: And if for whatever reasons you definitely want a Softboard, look at the Softtech handshaped 8.0.

[jaffa1949]

Some more thoughts for you to consider, you need to bring body flexibility to turns.
No flex means you are try to,turn by leaning, a quick way to have many wipeouts in short period mixed up swells, get advice on increasing your flexibility.
A lot of power for turns comes from extension and weight loading out of squats.

Early days , be clear in your assessment of where you are and what the Waves are for you.
Have fun, it takes time, effort, get real about boards, 8'6" the least you should be on.
The pumas is really just a toy!.
Keep at it, get some lessons and takle more to,us before you buy any board!

[waikikikichan]

so my progress is going slow, slower then my friends

So what type of boards and length of boards are they riding compared to you ?

So I guess I have 2 questions
1. Which board would be able to turn easier so I can practice going down the line, or do you guys think the difference between the 2 in turning is almost negligible?
2. Looking at the type of waves we have, which board would you guys suggest?

1) The similarity between the two is the same driver of the vehicle, if you can NOT do a clean pop and proper stance, you won't be able to bottom turn to then go down the line on either board. You're putting the Cart in front of the Horse. Learn to paddle better, learning timing, learning to pop up correctly.
2) That wave looks awesome, I would love to surf that wave on any size board. BUT............ from what Oldie says, that photo is not normal conditions.

[Raysn29]

Hey Neighbour! The picture you post are dream conditions, probably not even 5 days per year like that.

If you look what people surf in Scheveningen, you will see a lot, and some quite good, longboarders with boards longer than 9ft (you see shortboarders and midlength as well) The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves that somehow pop up (short period) anywhere around you and behave different every time (thanks to wind and overlapping swells). That means you need to react fast or anticipate early, and you may feel that with a longer board you cannot do that. But you can - you need to start into the waves early, and paddle hart. If you cannot pop up on a 8.6, you need to work on the technique. I would rent/try a bit more and save the invested money into a teacher with indvidual lessons. You are so early in you development that it is still possible to avoid bad habits, and a teacher helps a lot, and after a few lessons he will also be able to advise you on the right board for you. Hartbeach & Aloha rent out decent boards at various sizes for little money, and they have a good school.

90l is a lot for your size. And honestly, why buy a softtop? If you are comitted to surfing, you will outgrow that fast.

This is one of the normal good days at the North Sea. Heavy onshore.

20160514-DSC_1136.jpg

P.S: And if for whatever reasons you definitely want a Softboard, look at the Softtech handshaped 8.0.

Hello Freund!
Honestly, most days I see a shitton of short boarders, followed by long boarders and a few people on minimal. But (to my eye at least) it mostly seems like shortboarders. I feel like short boarders can make so much more use of the waves, because they can move more up and down, instead of going sideways, a longboard needs such a large range of motion that the wave is over before you have turned with these shitty waves from the North Sea. I am working hard to improve my pop up, im doing deep squats every, improving in strength by doing more pushups (can only do 2 atm) and practice pop ups on dry land.

I rented a few times, but it gets expensive quick so I really want my own. Ive had 4 lessons at Aloha, the teacher told me I am not strong and flexible enough, thats why im struggling with my pop-up. I want to buy a soft top because its cheap and mostly for safety reasons. If I do grow out of it I will sell it and buy a hardtop, but for now I definitly don't trust myself on one.

To get back to my 2 questions however, what would your advice/input be?
Danke schone for the advice!

[Raysn29]

so my progress is going slow, slower then my friends

So what type of boards and length of boards are they riding compared to you ?

So I guess I have 2 questions
1. Which board would be able to turn easier so I can practice going down the line, or do you guys think the difference between the 2 in turning is almost negligible?
2. Looking at the type of waves we have, which board would you guys suggest?

1) The similarity between the two is the same driver of the vehicle, if you can NOT do a clean pop and proper stance, you won't be able to bottom turn to then go down the line on either board. You're putting the Cart in front of the Horse. Learn to paddle better, learning timing, learning to pop up correctly.
2) That wave looks awesome, I would love to surf that wave on any size board. BUT............ from what Oldie says, that photo is not normal conditions.

I definitely will, im working hard on increasing my strength by doing push ups and doing deep squat stretches to increase flexibility.
My friend used a 8' softtop for about 10 sessions, could pop up and then went to a 7'9 hardtop and is surfing that. I am however after 25+ sessions still struggling with keeping my balance once I do pop up, and at times don't manage to pop up at all. Thats why I am eyeballing the wider shorter board because its more easier, however when I do start to pop up and increase flexibility, the advantages of that wider shorter board will be gone (meaning more stable)?

[Raysn29]

Some more thoughts for you to consider, you need to bring body flexibility to turns.
No flex means you are try to,turn by leaning, a quick way to have many wipeouts in short period mixed up swells, get advice on increasing your flexibility.
A lot of power for turns comes from extension and weight loading out of squats.

Early days , be clear in your assessment of where you are and what the Waves are for you.
Have fun, it takes time, effort, get real about boards, 8'6" the least you should be on.
The pukas is really just a toy!.
Keep at it, get some lessons and takle more to,us before you buy any board!

Thanks amigo, appreciate the advices, and the general friendliness on this forum. Will deff check in more often

[RinkyDink]

Board 1: Very wide but short with 7'0 x 25 3/8 x 3 85 liter. Much easier to pop up, more stable, seem to not pearl as much due too shorter size, easier to turtle roll big whitewash (we have a shitton of whitewash). This board feels better overall then board 2, but turns more difficult?

I guess if I had to give one piece of board buying advice, then it would be to buy the board that works for you. If you've gotten on a board and found that you could surf well on it, then I would say keep surfing that board until it stops working for you. Once you run into the limitations of a board you like surfing, then it's time to start thinking about buying another board. As far as what board should you get, my short answer is to simply buy an easy-to-paddle longboard (length about 3 feet over the top of your head) that you can take out in junk waves as well as waves like the one in your picture. I recommend buying a longboard because riding it consistently is the most efficient way to learn how to surf and gain the fitness you'll need to surf regularly. Good luck.

[RinkyDink]

The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves

Maybe there's still enough of the analog world left in me to think that there's some surfer in Hamburg who goes out and explores the northern coast often enough to have found some secret surf spots that work fairly consistently. Some cove that catches the swell, but blocks the wind or a jetty that causes a wedged up wave to form. If you're determined enough, there might be treasure out there. Honestly though, I have no idea what the coastline along the North Sea is like. I know from my own experience, walking the coastline around here, that you can sometimes find decent waves in surprising places.

[dtc]

Hello Freund!
Honestly, most days I see a shitton of short boarders, followed by long boarders and a few people on minimal. But (to my eye at least) it mostly seems like shortboarders. I feel like short boarders can make so much more use of the waves, because they can move more up and down, instead of going sideways, a longboard needs such a large range of motion that the wave is over before you have turned with these shitty waves from the North Sea.

The thing here is that you need to already have a lot of skill before you can do what those shortboarders do. Its not the arrow, its the indian, as waikikichan says

For example, a friend of mine who is an excellent surfer can find a close out wave, take 3 paddles, pop up, do a fast bottom turn, a pump and a top turn in the time that I take to pop up and realise the wave is going to close out. Me getting onto his board wont change that (except for the worse).

You will find that, at some stage, your pop up will click and you will be able to do it. I think the question for you is the one rinky more or less put - do you get a board that offers you the easiest surfing now, or one that provides you with some - but an acceptable level of - challenge now, but which might be a longer term board once you have overcome this initial hurdle (in saying that, just to be clear, going for a shortboard would be a board that offers an unacceptable level of challenge).

If you are happy buying a board now and another board in 6 or 12 months - buy the board that works now. If you want a board that might be suitable for longer, buy a longboard. Keep in mind that, either way, you may well want a new board in 12 months anyway, since you are a surfer and that is what surfers do.

But, at the end of the day, what you are struggling with is not something that a different board will fix or solve. You are just looking at degrees to which a board will make it easier.

[RinkyDink]

The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves that somehow pop up (short period) anywhere around you and behave different every time (thanks to wind and overlapping swells). That means you need to react fast or anticipate early, and you may feel that with a longer board you cannot do that. But you can - you need to start into the waves early, and paddle hart.

One question I have is if a beginning surfer is going to be learning in mostly choppy, unpredictable surf with random peaks . . . would they be better off starting on a fish? I'm talking about after they've learned to pop up in white water. What's the consensus of the North Sea surfers (what are beginners riding in the lineups)?

[Oldie]

The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves

Maybe there's still enough of the analog world left in me to think that there's some surfer in Hamburg who goes out and explores the northern coast often enough to have found some secret surf spots that work fairly consistently. Some cove that catches the swell, but blocks the wind or a jetty that causes a wedged up wave to form. If you're determined enough, there might be treasure out there. Honestly though, I have no idea what the coastline along the North Sea is like. I know from my own experience, walking the coastline around here, that you can sometimes find decent waves in surprising places.

There are those spots - i.e. in Netherlands Scheveningen around the harbour walls, similar in Denmark's cold Hawaii, i.e Thyboron, which can have nice, longer longbord waves, depending on the well direction. The problem is the prevailing onshore wind, the flatness of that North Sea, and that the UK blocks all Swell from the Atlantic. So days with nice conditions are very rare.

[Oldie]

The problem with the North Sea is that you have, even on the best days, weak waves with a maximum period of 7s, and no predictable peak, but waves that somehow pop up (short period) anywhere around you and behave different every time (thanks to wind and overlapping swells). That means you need to react fast or anticipate early, and you may feel that with a longer board you cannot do that. But you can - you need to start into the waves early, and paddle hart.

One question I have is if a beginning surfer is going to be learning in mostly choppy, unpredictable surf with random peaks . . . would they be better off starting on a fish? I'm talking about after they've learned to pop up in white water. What's the consensus of the North Sea surfers (what are beginners riding in the lineups)?

Longboards, Softboards and minimals. Fish are rare.

[Oldie]

...
Ive had 4 lessons at Aloha, the teacher told me I am not strong and flexible enough, thats why im struggling with my pop-up. I want to buy a soft top because its cheap and mostly for safety reasons. If I do grow out of it I will sell it and buy a hardtop, but for now I definitly don't trust myself on one.

To get back to my 2 questions however, what would your advice/input be?
Danke schone for the advice!

Buying a softboard for safety makes sense, but do not go below 8ft, as your next real board will need to be above that, and you might find a transition strange. I like the Softtech Handshaped.

However, what you need to work on more is fitness and flexibility. 2 Pushups is nothing, and you probably then also struggle with Pullups. You will definitely struggle with paddling to the lineup in any kind of decent wave and keeping position.

As minimum prep for next season I suggest very regular swimming (at least twice per week > 1km), and daily stretching, pushups, pullups, burpees, planks.

For the next season, work on being be able to do at least 10 burpees in a row. Before being able to do that I would not go out.

[jaffa1949]

Please don't under any circumstance consider a fish, you need to able to surf rail to rail with rapid changes to make them work in your conditions.
8'6". To 9ft... which will be able to turn and go up and down the wave, when you can.
Advantages, good paddle power and wave catching, glide across flat spots on the wave to the next section, ability to support you if you learn to go to trim spot and further forward to speed in short section.
A longboard also has the secret section ( sweet spot if you like) where can match the speed of the wave as you go across it.

Short board for an unfit unflexible learn put a big unable to in front of each of those advantages above.