Take Off on Fast Waves

[ychen]

Hey Guys,

I'm an entry level surfer. Just got a question about take-off and wanted to get some advise from you guys!

I have been struggling with taking off on fast moving waves. The technique I've been using is paddle as hard as I can to build up the speed and once the wave hits me, I'll give a few more strokes to get into the wave. This normally works fine if I'm catching slow moving waves. But when the waves is fast and steep (when it's low tide?), this technique doesn't seem to work very well. What happens if I try to give a few more strokes is that I will just flying down the surface and nose dive.. Anything I can do to overcome this?

Grateful for any advises. Thanks!

[steveylang]

One little tip that has helped me- when you are paddling for the wave, make sure to looks sideways so you can see the wave as it approaches. That should help with your pop-up timing. Otherwise I think you lose a split second waiting to feel the wave to get under you. I got that tip from this video (at 5:48)-

[BoMan]

This helped me ride faster waves with angled takeoffs.

I would add one tip to the video. It really helps to arch your back if you feel the board starting to pearl as it drops down the wave face.

[RinkyDink]

Think of the fastest wave you know and watch videos of the surfers who got the wave figured out. When I think of a fast wave, I think Mundaka. You're no doubt going to need an angled takeoff there. See the takeoff at 2:38 and work on reproducing it in 3-4 foot waves. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRPGoDr5LSs

[oldmansurfer]

These guys seems to have pretty good advice that may apply here.

[Big H]

Not so much angling the takeoff as just turning as you stand as a natural function of going where you look.

You need an effective paddle, good position, keep your head up and chin up, look where you want to go, good timing and a quick, controlled pop up where you land in balance and able to start to turn and drive right away.

[waikikikichan]

The technique I've been using is paddle as hard as I can to build up the speed and once the wave hits me, I'll give a few more strokes to get into the wave.

1) You got it backwards, you get the board up to speed gradually, THEN give it a burst of speed right as the wave gets to you.
2) Paddling for a wave is in 2 parts. ONE to paddle to where you think it will be break. TWO to get on it.
3) Paddling HARD is not the way. Gritting your teeth, cupping your hand and splashing water isn't good. Better to move a lot of water a short distance than a tiny amount of water a far distance.
4) Rigid dance steps aren't good. You can't say "paddle an extra 3 times". The wave ( like nature ) is ever changing, you need to be constantly adapting and stay loose.
5) If you're waiting for the wave to "hit you", it's too late. You have to time the swing so the bat comes into contact with the baseball at the exact same place at the exact same moment. ( but in surfing the pitch is coming from behind you )

What happens if I try to give a few more strokes is that I will just flying down the surface and nose dive.

Again thinking Backwards, You have to look at nose diving as a good thing ( compared to the wave passing you by ). Nosediving ( usually ) means you caught the wave, ( well that depends if your paddling sucks and the tail gets sucked up the face and gravity takes over and slams you down ). So now you have to work on TIMING. When you start to pearl, don't look down and death grab the rails. POP UP STAND UP ! Get the weight to transfer back and that will in turn pull up the nose and engage the fins to bite into the wave.

[jaffa1949]

You mention " as the wave hits you" are you still catching white water or taking off on the face? A fgreen face take shouldn't involve being hit by the wave! Every. Waikikikichan says is the way to go but I some how believe you might be still doing the white water stuff!
Don't worry it was all part of our learning too!

[steveylang]

I went out today in faster, bigger surf in LA (not enormous, maybe chest high?), and was having problems of my own. I was able to paddle into waves mostly fine and have time to pop up, but then kept getting hung up and not be able to glide down the face of the wave. So I would end up having the wave crash on me, get hung up on the lip, pearl, etc.

Here are my thoughts on what I think was happening. I am on a 7'3" hybrid hard board which is a step up from my old thick wide foamie, so I'm still tentative on it. In trying to push up smoothly (methodically) and from my near my waist (I have a habit of putting my hands down near my chest/shoulders) I think I lose further time. And then trying to get good balance when standing up, I think I am also leaning on my back foot which slows me down further. So while there were plenty of good rides to be had out there today, I mostly was getting bogged in the starting blocks.

I went out during my lunch hour, so didn't have time to come out, reflect and game plan, and then go back in (plus I broke my leash! ) I think I want to try to just commit harder next time (not lean back), I'm hoping that will help get me going down the line quicker. And also just keep going out to get faster/smoother with my new board.

Any tips or thoughts?

One of the really fascinating things about surfing is that I think you really need to balance between focusing on you and your technique, and being aware of the ocean and waves. There's a lot of little techniquey things to pick up in surfing that are not always intuitive, but if that's all you're thinking about then it's not going to work out there. Once I paddle into a wave my mind sort of goes on auto-pilot just physically trying to get on the wave, and I usually totally forget about whatever mistakes I'm trying to correct.

[waikikikichan]

Any tips or thoughts?

YOU ARE NOT READY to be on that 7'3" Hybrid. I would recommend a 7'10"ish funboard or 8'2" mini-tanker, so you can get in earlier and have more glide. Hybrids are for intermediates making the jump to a Short(er) board from a Funboard. You need to already have the skills to create speed on Hybrids. You are still at the level of making the drop.

Question: Are the chest high "fast waves", end to end closeouts beach break waves ?

[dtc]

If you are popping up but not catching the wave then probably either

- popping up too early - quite common on fast waves because you do only have a short period to pop up, so you pop up the instant you feel a bit of a push. But you need that extra stroke or 3. I’ve heard it called ‘lateral paddle syndrome’ ie you only paddle when you are lateral (flat) and stop and pop up as soon as you start angling down. But paddling down the face/until your nose is below you is needed.

- too much weight on the back of your board after you pop up. You need to really be weighting the front foot and forcing your board over that ledge and down the face (esp if you are popping up a bit early). Sometimes when you are at the top of the wave and looking down the face you/your brain just does ‘wtf, I’m not going down there’ and leans back to keep you level (level is ‘normal’ for your brain). But pausing at the top, leaning forward and getting that drop down the face -one of the best feelings in surfing

Anyway, overcome the brain and force your way down the face

So

- pop up just a tad later
- weight the front foot

Remember that the first part of your surf ride comes from gravity. Not the wave. You need to be in a position to use gravity to go down the hill. Gravity can’t help you if you are stuck at the flat bit at the top

A bigger board will also help significantly

[steveylang]

Any tips or thoughts?

YOU ARE NOT READY to be on that 7'3" Hybrid. I would recommend a 7'10"ish funboard or 8'2" mini-tanker, so you can get in earlier and have more glide. Hybrids are for intermediates making the jump to a Short(er) board from a Funboard. You need to already have the skills to create speed on Hybrids. You are still at the level of making the drop.

Question: Are the chest high "fast waves", end to end closeouts beach break waves ?

Thanks for the reply waikikikichan.

Yeah, the 7'3" hybrid was a Craigslist find that I couldn't resist for $70. You are right it wasn't the best next board for me, but after taking it out a few times I don't have trouble catching and riding smaller green waves. I am on the lookout for a mini-mal though. My 1st board was a very wide/thick 7' Stormblade foamy (7’0” x 23” x 3.9”).

I mainly surf a beach break that is just north of (and basically identical to) Zuma Beach. Generally small to mid days are okay, no consistent breaks since it's a beach break, and a mix of some good peeling waves, some sections, and closeouts too (especially when its bigger.) Today, the waves were bigger but there were definitely rides to be had if you were in the right spot at the right time.

Can you tell me a little bit more about a hybrid shape vs. a mini-mal? This board is 7’3” x 20 5/8” x 2 7/8”, it is a Country Surfboards Nomad which I have seen online described as a hybrid. I thought it wouldn't be too different from a minimal or fun board due to the dimensions, but don't really know. It doesn't have too much rocker, the nose is narrower than a minimal of course but not too narrow. Like I said, on easier days I catch waves pretty good and have fun on it, but if I'm on the wrong board then I want to know that. I guess the fact that I could ride green waves on it gave me the impression that I could ride as my new board.

For comparison, would this 7' fun board/mini-mal ride a lot differently? (I would prefer a 7'-7'6" range board as that fits in my car)
https://www.secondhandboards.com/used-s ... libu-18505

Thanks again,
Steve

[waikikikichan]

I have been struggling with taking off on fast moving waves. The technique I've been using is paddle as hard as I can to build up the speed and once the wave hits me, I'll give a few more strokes to get into the wave. This normally works fine if I'm catching slow moving waves. But when the waves is fast and steep (when it's low tide?), this technique doesn't seem to work very well.

was having problems of my own. I was able to paddle into waves mostly fine and have time to pop up, but then kept getting hung up and not be able to glide down the face of the wave. So I would end up having the wave crash on me, get hung up

after taking it out a few times I don't have trouble catching and riding smaller green waves.
Like I said, on easier days I catch waves pretty good and have fun on it, but if I'm on the wrong board then I want to know that.

Don't blame the arrow, blame the Indian. So it's the Rider not the Boards fault, but being on an improper board makes it that much harder. I guess the answer is DON'T GO OUT IN BIGGER WAVES. You're fine in smaller slow waves, but you struggle in faster "chest high" waves. Accept that fact until your paddling skills improve.

[steveylang]

I have been struggling with taking off on fast moving waves. The technique I've been using is paddle as hard as I can to build up the speed and once the wave hits me, I'll give a few more strokes to get into the wave. This normally works fine if I'm catching slow moving waves. But when the waves is fast and steep (when it's low tide?), this technique doesn't seem to work very well.

was having problems of my own. I was able to paddle into waves mostly fine and have time to pop up, but then kept getting hung up and not be able to glide down the face of the wave. So I would end up having the wave crash on me, get hung up

after taking it out a few times I don't have trouble catching and riding smaller green waves.
Like I said, on easier days I catch waves pretty good and have fun on it, but if I'm on the wrong board then I want to know that.

Don't blame the arrow, blame the Indian. So it's the Rider not the Boards fault, but being on an improper board makes it that much harder. I guess the answer is DON'T GO OUT IN BIGGER WAVES. You're fine in smaller slow waves, but you struggle in faster "chest high" waves. Accept that fact until your paddling skills improve.

Gotcha, thanks! Yeah I wasn't thinking that my board was the problem, just that perhaps I was on the wrong one (for me.) I don't mind being a little outside my comfort zone (as long as it's not too far out).

[oldmansurfer]

I can understand the wanting your board to fit in your car. It's not impossible to learn on shorter boards but every board has it's limitations and more than that every surfer has their limitations. Sounds like you found a limitation for yourself but don't worry it is a transient limit that can be overcome with building paddling strength and endurance and learning about waves (lots of time in the water). For beginners it seems most need to have boards about 3 foot longer than their height. This makes it easier to learn so unless you are 4' 3" tall that board will make it more difficult for you to learn on than what most people experience because they ride longer boards.

[steveylang]

I can understand the wanting your board to fit in your car. It's not impossible to learn on shorter boards but every board has it's limitations and more than that every surfer has their limitations. Sounds like you found a limitation for yourself but don't worry it is a transient limit that can be overcome with building paddling strength and endurance and learning about waves (lots of time in the water). For beginners it seems most need to have boards about 3 foot longer than their height. This makes it easier to learn so unless you are 4' 3" tall that board will make it more difficult for you to learn on than what most people experience because they ride longer boards.

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement! The funny thing is that my first board was slightly shorter at 7' exactly, but was a big thick foam board (24" wide and almost 4" thick) with rubbery fins. My new board was a $70 Craigslist find that I couldn't pass up, if I was totally lost on it I could put it away for a few months and try again later. It turns out that after 1 or 2 sessions I knew I could change over.

I think I figured out today what I was doing wrong (well at least 1 thing I was doing wrong.) Lately I have been almost regressing on the new board (after gradually getting the hang of it), culminating in my struggles the other day- I couldn't consistently find my balance after popping up and got caught up by the wave. Other aspects of riding this board were coming along great (paddling into waves, overall comfort level in the water.) What I realized is that I was sort of cheating on my popup to try to make it quicker and softer, and wasn't really swinging my feet all the way under me- leaving me off-balance basically at the worst time. I hadn't thought about my pop-up for months and took it for granted until now. After being more mindful of my pop-up, I feel like I'm back on track.

I originally posted in this thread because I thought my problem and OP's were similar, but probably not so much. There's many ways to screw up the same task, LOL.

[jet528]

Any tips or thoughts?

Question: Are the chest high "fast waves", end to end closeouts beach break waves ?

I have the same problem as ychen - I still struggle with making the drop and my local breaks are mostly closeout beach break waves.. Rare peeling waves are all taken up by experienced surfers.. How should I make the most out of closeout waves? Because the moment I stood, the green face instantly broke, then i fell.

[oldmansurfer]

That sounds like you should find another break. That break would be difficult to learn on. Perhaps if there is an end section to the closeout. So the whole wave tosses over but on either side of that is the end of the wave. If there is a shoulder to the wave on the end then it might be worth riding it there. But make sure you don't get in the way of the other surfers

[waikikikichan]

I still struggle with making the drop and my local breaks are mostly closeout beach break waves.. Rare peeling waves are all taken up by experienced surfers.. How should I make the most out of closeout waves?

How should you make the most out of skiing/snowboarding if there's no snow ?
How should you make the most out of windsurfing if there's no wind ?
No matter how much I want to bake a delicious chocolate cake, if all I got is ketchup and Spam, there's not much to work with.
A closeout is a closeout. It is UN-RIDEABLE. That's why the more experienced surfer know not to go on those. You're hungry for waves, but just like in the wild, it's survival of the fittest. The big strong Lions get the meal, the weak ones gets the scraps. So the answer is become a stronger paddler, surf the proper board and learn the wave. ( or get a Beater board and pull-in )

[RinkyDink]

Any tips or thoughts?

Question: Are the chest high "fast waves", end to end closeouts beach break waves ?

I have the same problem as ychen - I still struggle with making the drop and my local breaks are mostly closeout beach break waves.. Rare peeling waves are all taken up by experienced surfers.. How should I make the most out of closeout waves? Because the moment I stood, the green face instantly broke, then i fell.

When I restarted surfing I mostly surfed Pismo Beach which, I'd say, is about a 60% closeout break. At one point I thought that I might as well practice my popups on closeout waves, but I soon learned that that is not much fun and actually dangerous. My logic was that if you look at big wave riders, they often are just taking off on a closeout type wave so practicing on closeouts should be fine. My silly theory definitely diverged from practice when it came to closeouts. A wave with a 30 foot wide lip all coming down at the same time does not give you any margin for error. There's no shoulder to try and get to if things go wrong. Waves without shoulders I consider too dangerous for me. Some breaks don't appeal to me much because I don't see enough of a shoulder to the wave (Puerto Escondido comes to mind) so I become a spectator at those kinds of breaks.