Bottom turn to cutback

[300thumper]

I need some suggestions on what to change after the bottom turn. So the waves were 3' today and i was getting down the Angled takeoff id compress at the bottom start my turn up and only make it half way then try to cutback. The board did one of two things everytime. One the rail buries and i fall, Or two the board feels locked into place and i fall.

This is a 7'6 board and ive replaced the fins in the back but all the shop had was large. So large basic fcs fins.

[oldmansurfer]

To do a cutback with less effort you need to have speed. Perhaps you should just start with doing a slower cutback where you turn the board with your ankles mostly and not lean into it so much. Something like this would be much easier for us to help you if you had a video of you doing whatever you are doing.

[300thumper]

Going back out this afternoon. Still looking for suggestions.

[oldmansurfer]

I suggested a slow cutback and another option would be a snap off the top so you would just turn turn sharply up and sharply back down and push the tail hard. It's really difficult to say what you should try to do without actually seeing the wave and your position on the wave. Perhaps where you are on the wave is too gutless to do some maneuvers.

[oldmansurfer]

There are three things in determining what maneuvers to do. First it is the wave and what the wave is doing and the second is your board and what your board can do. Third and most importantly is you and what your are able to do. The waves change from wave to wave and what you will be able to do will change from board to board but ultimately what you can do is up to you. You can learn to do whatever maneuvers and when and where on the wave to do them with which board. This takes lots of time surfing.

[waikikikichan]

Change your way you think about doing a CUTback. If you think about COMEback to the wave, that should help with the WHY and WHEN. You perform a turn out on the shoulder since you got to far away from the curl. That is the Why to comeback to the wave. You don't do it when you're in the curl / the power spot of the wave or when it's too steep (for your ability or board). That helps you with timing or the When to comeback.

Like OMS said you need Speed to jam your board into critical section. That is to snap or carve. Without speed or a bigger board, you need to work with the wave, NOT against it. Flow from inside rail to outside rail and back.

[Jester]

At what point are you falling over/not turning? Is it during your first bottom turn or the initiation of the cutback or halfway through the cutback?

My experience pales into a puff of nowt compared to OMS but have you tried bending your knees? When in doubt I 'go-low' also trying to turn from the middle of the board not good, have you got weight over the back fins for your turn?

As OMS says.. All depends on the speed you're travelling.

[Jester]

Gonna try and remember that myself Waikiki.. Good one!!

[Jester]

Found this that might help you out buddy.

viewtopic.php?t=14778

[300thumper]

Id love to post a video of me flailing around. Then you all could have a good laugh. Conditions got worse this afternoon and I had a lot of steep drops so getting down the line was not going well. Talked to a guy i know who showed up and he said i need to take a step back and put my foot over the fins. He said it looked just a little to far forward. He also recommended not worring about a full bottom turn to a snap on these waves were getting. He said work on kicking the tail and practice getting in the speed of the wave. He said id probably find myself in a barrel or two.
I think speed and wieght on the front foot are causing my stalls
Also read all the posts. Great info fellas. I hope i dont have to wait till hurricane season for good waves but things are slowing here. Might be time to travel.

[dtc]

Check out photos of top surfers doing top turns, see how far back their back foot is and they are really jamming the tail of the board around. Not as easy to do as to say though!

ss20090601pan648a.jpg (161.58 KiB) Viewed 2089 times

[IanCaio]

I think speed and weight on the front foot are causing my stalls

I can't say much about cutbacks since I still can't do them . But usually stalling is related to the opposite: having your weight too far back. Having your weight a little bit forward can either make you pearl or give you some more speed depending on the section. I once felt the wave had a weak section, slowly turning steeper as it reached the shallow, so I just leaned forward and I could keep up with the wave. Also, I noticed how pros usually keep their feet more forward (usually with their back foot far from the tail) when inside barrels. I could only think of two reasons to do that: speed and having a less sensitive response for turns (which I think is important when you're already in position inside the barrel).

Maybe I'm wrong though

[300thumper]

Well made it out this morning again for another session of beat downs. Went well though. Solid 4' waves and all lefts. So it was backside all morning. At first i was hesitant on the critical section but kept moving closer each ride. Finally poped up, stayed low, grabbed the rail with right hand opene my left to the wave and looked down the line. Slide my foot back to the stop on the tail pad and stood up. WOW! I had so much control of the board. Bottom turned up the wave at an angle top turn and kept on going. Got three in before it closed out. I was stoked!
Today was the first day i have ever even felt the kickpad under my foot. Every other time i may have been on it but was to far forward. Caught a lot of waves but only two went that well. Ill take it though.

[jaffa1949]

Turning a board when you are to far forward is usually by leaning. It is almost impossible to generate enough back foot pressure to drive the turn ( if you have only just discovered your tail pad under your feet definitely so!)

So the attempt is made to turn by leaning , rail digs wipeout ensues!

simple exercise , start doing little tic tac turns with each one leading into the next but have your focus always down the line not on the turn you are just doing or did.
Gradually increase the strength and size of the turns, don't let your feet become stuck in a poo stance and allow you knees to be flexible in driving the turns.

I like Waikikichan's renaming the turn as a come back to the wave.
People often find their backhand come back easier than a forehand cut back as on the backhand it feels more natural..

[300thumper]

So by tic tac i think you mean like a skateboard. Basically tapping the front back and forth and gradually learn to drive it further. That correct?

I built a balance board to work on my wieght shifts and strengthing all the small muscles. Hopefully this helps with moving my wieght to make the turn.

[oldmansurfer]

with a skateboard you tick tac back and forth while leaning slightly off balance it uses your weight falling to one side then turning and leaning the other way slightly off balance and repeating to generate speed. In surfing if you are on flat water you might generate a little speed but not as much as skatboarding. Usually surfing you are tic tacking up and down the wave using your weight and gravity to generate speed so it's more up and down the wave in quick turns

[IB_Surfer]

When I surf my bigger boards I really have to surf them alltogether different than my shortboards. I turn mostly rail to rail, like a skateboard, but when I want to do a cutback I really have to put pressure on my back foot and stomp the cutback into submission. So, instead of using your legs or torso more try just tipping back, imagine you are trying to raise the nose of the board and go for it.

The fins do make a difference though. If you want to find out if that is the problem do a simple test, take the center fin off and give it a whirl. It might slide, which is not good, but it will turn easier due to the less drag. If it feels easier then yes you need the smaller size fins, if it feels the same it is not hte fins

[300thumper]

This may or ma not be a good idea. You all can tell me, but i did really well backside on the funboard so i switched to my short board. I guess its a short board at 6'8. Again backside went well and i was able to hit the lip and turn back down the wave.
Now i had two days off for work and it feels like ive lost most of it. Front side waves i am terrible at. I either fall back or take my bottom turn to far in the flats. Should i switch back to a longer board to work it out. Is going back and fourth counter productive? When my daughter comes she uses the funboard and i have to use the shorter board. Id rather get her wave count up.
Also the beach produces better lefts so this may be why i have trouble front side but others are riding them so its possible.

[oldmansurfer]

The thing about going out into the flats on takeoff is you are usually off balance so you keep going to try to get the board under you and when you do then it's too late. So working on concentrating more when you takeoff so you don't get off balance and go into the flats and also try to use your ankles to turn the board slightly as you are dropping so that the board is already turning slightly when you reach the bottom. I still remember when I did this more than 40 years ago. I would get so off balance that I would go left when I wanted to go right and because of that I had to learn how to ride backside. As to which board to use, which is the one you want to learn to use? If you are catching enough waves with the shortboard stick with it but if you are loosing too much skill between surfs then go with the longer board or surf more often

[300thumper]

That sounds exactly like what im doing. Even when i start angled, look down the line i still end up straight. Then when i do pop up i feel so awkward. By this point im behind on the wave and i cant race around. I havent had that problem on longer fatter waves. This beach i go regularly tends to get steep fast. I definitly want to ride te shorter board. I enjoy the speed and the sharp turns.