Safety and Selfishness

[Roy Stewart]

That is a moronic attitude, and if attempted on one of my waves could lead to you geting run down by a 12 foot wooden board and rider, although I would do my best to avoid you.

Something tells me you'd run over the person as long as you
a)thought you could get away with it
b)were bigger than them and thought they wouldn't fight back

TBH, I don't really care how long you've been surfing, your attitude sucks. You remind me of the guy down at Saunton - perfectly capable surfer who likes to ride at (but mostly just about manages to miss or be avoided by) other people in the water in order to be the big macho surfer.

Bet you're really proud, eh ...........

Your feelings are incorrect, I believe in surfing safely, and am very careful where and when I take off. . . .also if dropped in on I always try to share the wave with the other surfer, although I do like to play catch up !

I think that my attitude is very good because I surf safely and have rescued people in the water. . . too many people rely on leashes in order to indulge in unsafe surfing habits.

Unlike surfers who wear leashes, I never let go of my board, and I always surf conservatively with an awareness of who is on the inside. . .

[Roy Stewart]

WOW - talk about an idiotic standpoint!!

Well done to you for proving the point that it isn't just the kooks who are dangerous!!

Listen carefully mate, you can't claim that I am dangerous because I have an excellent safety record, so the facts don't fit your accusation.

You seem to be a naturally timid person with an overly bureaucratic and paranoid mindset, but whatever you are, get your facts straight.

Regarding safety, I think that helmets are an excellent idea, I always wear one and so do my children, I don't think that they should be compulsory, but I do think that anyone who is concerned with safety should consider wearing one. .. . helmets, unlike leashes, have no safety downside, and have probably saved my life on two occasions, one of which was a very dangerous leash incident involving someone else's leash and board tangled around my neck in largish surf.

Let's hear it for helmets !!





PS Lol at your website, a towel with a surfboard printed on it and a coat hanger, bordering on the ridiculous when described as surf innovation.. . . perhaps you should try a new line of work like writing parking tickets at the beach ?

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[Surfing-Innovation]

Your above two descriptions of your saintly surfing attitude hardly fit with your comments about running people down on your wooden board, do they??

Oh - and I'm so pleased you've saved people at the beach - just like someone saved my mate when he got speared by someone's board!

To use your analogy - I've never had a car accident, so that surely means I can drive faster than the speed limit, drive less carefully than other road users, or just generally ignore any safety measures and just do my own thing?? After all, my safety record in over 20 years driving is second to none???

As for the company's products - Hangair is an american product - selling very well over there by all accounts, and we've sold them pretty well over here and all over europe.

Ollypop was designed and manufactured by a UK surf pro/coach and we sell it on his behalf and Real Wiings (you forgot those) are designed and manufactured by a south african pro surfer and we sell those on his behalf - perhaps you'd like to pass your comments on to the gents concerned??

We simply find products that are 'innovative' and promote them - pending the release of our own (innovative and unique) product that will be of no interest to a pro surfer like yourself.............

[Johnny B]

C'mon, debating the topic of the thread is one thing but personal blows are another! Keep it in PM if you really feel it necessary to insult someone you've never met!

[joem]

Listen carefully mate, you can't claim that I am dangerous because I have an excellent safety record, so the facts don't fit your accusation.


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so what happens to your board when you wipe out

[Phil]

ive missed you roy welcome back mate

[Phil]

Didn't read all this cos its too whiney.

Surf where new surfers can't, show respect to locals and get on with it. Its busy ffs nowts going to change.

i agree with northswell, deal with it or get out of the water, nothings going to change

[Roy Stewart]

Your above two descriptions of your saintly surfing attitude hardly fit with your comments about running people down on your wooden board, do they??

Oh - and I'm so pleased you've saved people at the beach - just like someone saved my mate when he got speared by someone's board!

Try reading more carefully. .. my comment regarding running people down was simply that I do not recommend dropping in as those who drop in risk being run over. ... a result which I do my best to avoid.

My comments are pefectly consistent if you think about it logically.

The rescue was as follows;

A woman approached me as I was leaving the water at Omanu Beach, Bay of Plenty NZ, asking if I could recue her son and his friend who had been swept out in a rip. There were very strong rips due to a recent cyclone swell, and the tide was droppping which made them stronger. I had with my my 12 foot balsawood pintailed singlefin, I paddled back out and located the two teenagers some 300 metres offshore, they were very weak and frightened. I had both of them lie across the tail section of the board and I paddled very slowly towards the shore. About halfway towards the beach some 5 minutes later one of my friends from the Omanu surf club came out on a 10 foot paddle board and one of the teenagers was transferred to his craft, this enabled us to make better progress towards the shore, where we landed without further incident.

To use your analogy - I've never had a car accident, so that surely means I can drive faster than the speed limit, drive less carefully than other road users, or just generally ignore any safety measures and just do my own thing?? After all, my safety record in over 20 years driving is second to none???

That is a poor analogy. . . . I already said that I surf MORE carefully than most other surfers, and that this safety minded attitude has resulted in an excellent safety record

As mentioned previously I thoroughly recommend helmets.

You are making unjustified assumptions. . . . you assume that by not wearing a leash I am necessarily some kind of dangerous, uncaring surfing maniac. . . . however is safe to say that you have considerably less information regarding my surfing attuitude than I do myself, but this doesn't stop you from thinking that you know all about me and how I conduct myself in the water. . . a very flaky minded and rude approach. . . . I have posted honestly and you repeatedly try to twist my words to fit your own unjustified preconceived ideas. . . . . you have a lot to learn boy.

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[Roy Stewart]

Listen carefully mate, you can't claim that I am dangerous because I have an excellent safety record, so the facts don't fit your accusation.


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so what happens to your board when you wipe out

I almost never wipe out, I lose my board maybe once or twice a year at the most., compare this with people who routinely throw their boards away on the end of a long leash when paddling out with paddlers directly behind them and who wipe out frequently in crowded impact zones, mistakenly assuming that their leashes make it safe, when in fact their boards arev flailing upt to 25 feet behind them

I don't take off if the takeoff is sketchy and there are people close ny on the inside . . . I choose my waves very carefully, and only take off if I am confident that it is safe to do so. Often on bigger stormy days the break is almost deserted, this makes life a lot easier. . .


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[Roy Stewart]

ive missed you roy welcome back mate

Thanks Phil, how's it been ?

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[joem]

I almost never wipe out, I lose my board maybe once or twice a year at the most., compare this with people who routinely throw their boards away on the end of a long leash when paddling out with paddlers directly behind them and who wipe out frequently in crowded impact zones, mistakenly assuming that their leashes make it safe, when in fact their boards arev flailing upt to 25 feet behind them

I don't take off if the takeoff is sketchy and there are people close ny on the inside . . . I choose my waves very carefully, and only take off if I am confident that it is safe to do so. Often on bigger stormy days the break is almost deserted, this makes life a lot easier. . .


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so how do you expect people to learn without wipeing out
and you carnt get some of the most amazing rides without risking a wipeout

[Hang11]

If you're riding a 14 ft log and wearing a bright orange wettie, most people will get out of your way anyway.

Personally I can't see what all the fuss is about. If people ride without a leggie, they are gonna be pretty confident that they can handle it. Nobody wants to hurt anybody else, and I imagine the amount of injuries that happen due to that are tiny compared to those that happen because people bail boards when they are wearing a leash.

I always wear one, but I have also learned the hard way that relying on one is a very stupid thing to do. They break, and it's a last line of defence. It's always best to surf as though you don't have one on, and learn how to hang on to your board and pull out of waves properly.

FWIW, all the nasty injuries I've suffered while surfing have been leash related as well.

[Roy Stewart]

I almost never wipe out, I lose my board maybe once or twice a year at the most., compare this with people who routinely throw their boards away on the end of a long leash when paddling out with paddlers directly behind them and who wipe out frequently in crowded impact zones, mistakenly assuming that their leashes make it safe, when in fact their boards arev flailing upt to 25 feet behind them

I don't take off if the takeoff is sketchy and there are people close ny on the inside . . . I choose my waves very carefully, and only take off if I am confident that it is safe to do so. Often on bigger stormy days the break is almost deserted, this makes life a lot easier. . .


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so how do you expect people to learn without wipeing out
and you carnt get some of the most amazing rides without risking a wipeout

I'm not against people using leashes, they are a very useful item, especially for learners I'm just saying that IF you know what you are doing and are careful then it it's ok to surf without one.

I'm also saying that leashes are no substitute for surfing safely, as some people think they can just throw their boards away when using a leash.

'Amazing' is something that is in the eye of the beholder, but if you mean doing extreme and radical maneuvers then I agree, wear a leash.

By the way, with no leash, if you blow it, you swim, this gets tedious if done too often, that way one learns not to fall off.

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[long_man]

I almost never wipe out, I lose my board maybe once or twice a year at the most., compare this with people who routinely throw their boards away ...........
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so how do you expect people to learn without wipeing out
and you carnt get some of the most amazing rides without risking a wipeout

I'm not against people using leashes, they are a very useful item, especially for learners I'm just saying that IF you know what you are doing and are careful then it it's ok to surf without one.

I'm also saying that leashes are no substitute for surfing safely, as some people think they can just throw their boards away when using a leash.

'Amazing' is something that is in the eye of the beholder, but if you mean doing extreme and radical maneuvers then I agree, wear a leash.

By the way, with no leash, if you blow it, you swim, this gets tedious if done too often, that way one learns not to fall off.
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1st off, your point about "if you know what you're doing and careful......", i find quite ridiculous, i think Surfing Innovation mentioned it above, but it's like saying: you've been riding a motorbike for years and years, and have an A1 safety record, passed all the advance riding courses etc etc, but because your a "safe" rider, know what your doing and are very careful, it doesn't mean that you can hurtle down the outside lane of a motorway (Freeway) at stupid miles an hour, and also not where a helmet......at the end of the day ACCIDENTS HAPPEN

2nd off, slating/insulting someone else's company products is just bloody imature and pathetic, there really isn't any need for it.....

and lastly, this whole thread has spiralled out of control, its just becoming one great big slagging match, soon there will be, "your mum's so......." kinda comments, c'mon guys (and gals, to be PC).......

if were going to have a debate then let's have one, but slagging matches.......are they really necessary.... NO

~LM~

[Roy Stewart]

I almost never wipe out, I lose my board maybe once or twice a year at the most., compare this with people who routinely throw their boards away ...........
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so how do you expect people to learn without wipeing out
and you carnt get some of the most amazing rides without risking a wipeout

I'm not against people using leashes, they are a very useful item, especially for learners I'm just saying that IF you know what you are doing and are careful then it it's ok to surf without one.

I'm also saying that leashes are no substitute for surfing safely, as some people think they can just throw their boards away when using a leash.

'Amazing' is something that is in the eye of the beholder, but if you mean doing extreme and radical maneuvers then I agree, wear a leash.

By the way, with no leash, if you blow it, you swim, this gets tedious if done too often, that way one learns not to fall off.
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1st off, your point about "if you know what you're doing and careful......", i find quite ridiculous, i think Surfing Innovation mentioned it above, but it's like saying: you've been riding a motorbike for years and years, and have an A1 safety record, passed all the advance riding courses etc etc, but because your a "safe" rider, know what your doing and are very careful, it doesn't mean that you can hurtle down the outside lane of a motorway (Freeway) at stupid miles an hour, and also not where a helmet......at the end of the day ACCIDENTS HAPPEN

It isn't like that at all. . .. I don't go at stupid miles per hour (only 37mph or thereabouts ) , I DO wear a helmet, I surf very safely, and I haven't got any official certification.


What you are describing is a person who has learnt how to ride safely but then doesn't do so, who doesn't put their safety training into practice . ... that is not at all what I am doing . . . I have learnt to surf safely and continue to do so, I 'practice what I preach'. . .. do you see the difference ?


My safety record is due to my safe surfing habits, the posts that you and innovator put up have been assuming that I have surfed safely in the past but now am surfing dangerously . . .. . this is not the case, I must report that I become more and more safety conscious every year, but rather than wearing a leash, this makes me more cautious about when and where to take off.

In my opinion one of the biggest dangers in surfing is aggression towards other surfers, as this tends to cloud people's judgement and make them do silly things . Because of this I make a conscious effort to stay calm at all times when in the water even when dropped in on.

Helmets are a good idea

Leashes can be helpful but are no substitute for safe surfing habits, and can be dangerous at times.

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[Roy Stewart]

If you're riding a 14 ft log and wearing a bright orange wettie, most people will get out of your way anyway.

Personally I can't see what all the fuss is about. If people ride without a leggie, they are gonna be pretty confident that they can handle it. Nobody wants to hurt anybody else, and I imagine the amount of injuries that happen due to that are tiny compared to those that happen because people bail boards when they are wearing a leash.

I always wear one, but I have also learned the hard way that relying on one is a very stupid thing to do. They break, and it's a last line of defence. It's always best to surf as though you don't have one on, and learn how to hang on to your board and pull out of waves properly.

FWIW, all the nasty injuries I've suffered while surfing have been leash related as well.

Yes I agree, and wearing high visibility wetsuits does help a lot.

I'm interested in the problems which leashes have caused, if it's not too unpleasant to relate. . .. it might be helpful for people to know what can happen when using a leash, I know I have a couple of bad leash stories.


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[Hang11]

Wrapped round the fingers during a nice drilling - now I have one bent and non functional finger. Luckily not the middle one, so I can still communicate with parking wardens.

Dislocated shoulder getting one caught round a rock with a set breaking on my head.

Board pinged back into my face, fin first, busted nose.

Couple of knocked out/nearly knocked out episodes from leash rebounds too.

And the age old favourite, which has happened a few times, other peoples leashes wrapped around my neck in the impact zone when you get tangled. Which is never nice.

The worst I think that has happened to me, which was a big lesson, I was surfing in France, early morning, on my own, 200 metres out in a good sized swell and snapped my leash bailing my board. Had to swim in, and really didn't think I was going to make it. Made me realise that they are not to be relied on.

Anyway - how do I get to have a try of your board when it gets to Christchurch? I'd love to have a go on it.

[Sar]

I have watched this thread unfold and have found it mildly entertaining/educational at best. Nevertheless I feel the need to add my 2 cents and wisdom to this thread (please excuse my spelling).

1. Dont post whilst drunk

2. Dont join in on an argument you have no business being in especially if you have nothing of value to add but are just a bit bored.



3. Public liabilty – does that mean that through our ineptness in surfing we will we open to sueing if we cause an accident? I think Johnny B alluded to the ridiculousness of this at the start of the thread.

4. The leash thing – I rely way to heavily on my leash and I know it. The one time it did break I was pretty scared whilst I swam back to my board which was being knocked up against the pier. Fortunately it was a small day, and despite not being very fit, the swimming lessons I had a lot of at school helped and I didnt come into any harm.

5. Roy – the dig at Surfing Innovations site is IMO out of order and a bit childish. I expected better from you.

6. Surfing Innovation – you cannot possibly be mis-reading Roy's post's to that extent?!? I do not believe you are that stupid (you're welcome btw). I am sure that you are deliberately twisting his words to fit in with your own argument but in a very transparent fashion.

7. If I drop in on someone – it'll be my fault if I get run over wether they're wearing a leash or not and I would be grateful that they did their best to avoid me.

8. If someone's board hit me whilst surfing which could have been avoided if they had worn a leash; no matter their experience level I would be extremely upset and would address them as such.

9. If someone rides without a leash in a crowded spot and are not very good surfers then they are twats! No argument – I decree that it is the way it is so it shall be so.

10. The anologys are on this thread are, in my opinion pretty weak.

11. Scary leash story – my leash got tangled round my feet once. It was well scary!!


I have made my points so that anyone with moderate inteligence can understand what I am saying. If there is anything that you do not understand feel free to quote small portions of what I have said to fit in with your own argument. For now, I cannot be arsed to elaborate any further.

[Roy Stewart]

Guilty as charged re. surf innovation products.



Otherwise fine


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[drowningbitbybit]

No argument – I decree that it is the way it is so it shall be so.

Sar for Prime Minister! And President! No, lets go straight to the top - Sar for God!!