Xbox 360 ...

[Farno]

you need 1080i. The 720 is the entry level HD, you should be able to pick up a similar sized 1080i for only a few $ more

[RJD]

you need 1080i. The 720 is the entry level HD, you should be able to pick up a similar sized 1080i for only a few $ more

Theres a fair bit wrong with that statement but the general advice is probably OK.

1st flat TV's have a native resolution. Sometimes this matches one of the HD specs, most times it doesnt. If it doesnt the TV will be scaling the input (whatever) to its native resolution regardless, unless you send it 1:1 pixes.

2nd no flat panel is 'i' anything, there all 'p'. i.e. they display a progresive (whole frame) pictuer all the time, unlike a CRT.

3rd 360 games (bar 2) render at 720p, so for 1080 it'll be upscaled, either byt he TV, or by the 360, or by BOTH, which is what you want to avoid.

4th - pick the TV that has the best picture, (somewhat)regardless of resolution. lots of shitty looking pixels wil make a shitty picture.

[greg@hoodatsurfco]

^^actually i does exist.

But 1080i is not as good as 720p as progressive displays double the lines for every frame, thus working at 60 frames per second, while the i works at 30 frames per second. so even though there is a higher resolution for the 1080i its not as good for motion video/games because it takes twice as long to display each frame.. as it gives the even lines in the first frame, then in the second frame it gives the odd lines, while progressive displays both the odd and even lines in each frame..

which is why i is typically flickery. but if you are just looking at a very high resolution still image... not an actual moving image the 1080i will appear clearer than the 720p.

[RJD]

ONly CRT's will do interlaced, flat panles only show whole frames, they deinterlace internaly.

[greg@hoodatsurfco]

That is not true. At least in the USA, there are LCD interlaced tv's. Deinterlacing typically results in a worse image.

By deinterlacing you are taking the even lines from the first frame, and the odd lines from the second frame and blending them into one single frame to give the progressive result.

Problem is when combined into a single frame, the slight differences between the two frames due to this motion results in a "tearing" effect where alternate lines are slightly displaced from each other. giving you tiny black lines between each line. which can give a worse image.
Which is why not all flat panels work as deinterlaced. because whats worse a slight barely noticable flicker, or a blurry image?

But again, my knowledge is of USA tv's not NZ or AU, or JP or anything like that and I have no idea if it differs.

But in the US, interlaced flat panels do exist.. and deinterlacing exists and results in a lesser image.

IMO you really don't need anything better than 720p if you have a tv that is less than 42inches.

not to mention 1080i and p are not capable of 60fps typically (especially 1080i) and 720p is capable of it.. so you can have a higher resolution.. or get a lesser resolution with 720p but have everything appear and move much more fluid.

[Farno]

I stand by my 1080i statment, unless your going over 45 inch screen then a 1080p MIGHT be in order, avoid 720, like a fat lady on the rags....but as your looking at a smaller screen get to a shop tell them what you want and view it.

[RJD]

1080i SUCKS for gaming.

Why have 30fps when you can have 60 AND the games are rendered 720 anyhow? IF your TV is > 720p resolution it will upscale, it has to.

1080i for gaming should only be used on dodgy US TV's with no 720p.

[greg@hoodatsurfco]

I stand by my 1080i statment, unless your going over 45 inch screen then a 1080p MIGHT be in order, avoid 720, like a fat lady on the rags....but as your looking at a smaller screen get to a shop tell them what you want and view it.

dude if you are running under a 45" you will not notice a difference in quality between the 720p and 1080i... (except 1080i will flicker)

if anything the 720p will look better because it displays both lines in each frame instead of switching between the lines like the interlaced 1080i

it goes 1080p>720p>1080i

where is your argument to prove 1080i being better? why would you need a 1080 resolution on lets say a 32" screen? how would you notice a difference in the resolution capability on a screen that small.. you won't.

[hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf]

no way man the 5000 and 1 version AB is the best.

[Farno]

where is your argument to prove 1080i being better?

I'm using a Samsung LE40M87 this is a 40" screen and can run all the way up to 1080p. This is hooked up to my xbox 360 via component cables.

My argument is this; If i set my screen and xbox to run at 720 the picture is not as good as if i set both to 1080i. Now if i set my tv to 1080p its crappy. So for me 1080i is better. The games i've tested are Forza 2, as its a fast moving game and gears of war for the dark screen contrasts.

If i watch USA tv on my set, the picture is always crappy, it lacks definition, if i watch UK tv its always crisp and clear, unless its a program from a few years ago. Try before you buy dude , best advice ever given.

Whats your argument to say that 720 is better? Please dont wine on about 720, the xbox 360 supports 1080i screen resolutions the PS3 does 1080p, it broadcasts this signal it doesn't upscale it

[greg@hoodatsurfco]

ok, 40" is getting up there where you will start to notice resolution issues.

But 720p is a proven design, to handle fast motion MUCH better than interlaced... as interlace has a slight flicker affect.. the chances of noticing the flicker on a 40"? probably not very likely... but at the same time.. I have personally seen an xbox 360 on my old roommates 42" 720p and it looked SO much cleaner than my other buddies 37" or something 1080i

even without seeings an example.. i will pick clear motion over high resolution. as high resolution doesn't generally come into play until 46"

[Farno]

I get NO fllicker or pixilation, suppose it also has alot to do with the set you buy.

[RJD]

Probably because your set is deinterlacing.

Flat screens show a progresive picture. CRT's scan every 2nd line interlaced.

Flat screens cannot do that, every pixel, every line, is refreshed every frame.

And the 360 (apart from 2 games) renders in 720p, anything you select above that us upscaled, somewhere.

Mebe the 360 has a better scaller than the TV.

BTW the 360 can do 1080p fine.

[Farno]

1. My set deinterlaces on game mode because thats how i've set it up
2. What if the Max resolution is only interlaced, then the screen cant P scan
3. Your wrong again, that would mean every flat pannel would be P rated
4. My 360 renders EVERY game in 1080i
5. Who knows, I have a digital TV decoder
6. Yes, it Upscales to 1080p

Just to clarify The i stands for interlaced, p for progressive, i.e. to make one frame with 1080i half the pixels are drawn, and then the other half are drawn giving 30 full frames per second which on a large screen can have a slight flickering effect, with 1080p, all pixels are updated at the same time effectivly giving 60 full frames per second so you get a smoother refresh. There is no difference in image quality however as they both drive the same number of pixels.

I think where you are getting confused is that the posts above compare 720p to 1080i, 720p having fewer pixels but all refreshing at the same time,
but it is 50 Hz since we live in the UK and use PAL
and you can also get 100 Hz now to confuse issues
(NTSC is 60 Hz)

[RJD]

So how do you make an LCD or plasma that physicaly displays interlaced?

Signals in is not the same thing as the picture shown.

The 360 renders nothing interlaced. the frambuffers are whole frames, it then outputed to the scaler which upreses to 1080 then outputs inetrlaced.

360 can run in 50 or 60 hz modes, typicaly in 60hz modes due to game requirements.

HD resolution specs have 720,1080 in both 50 and 60hz.

100hz referes to a CRT's display refresh rate, again nothing to do with the incoming signals refresh rates. LCD and Plasma dont require running at 100hz because they refresh th whole screen every frame.


Just so you understand, flat screen tv's (LCD, PLasma) refresh the whole screen every time. And they always shor their native resolution regardless of what signal is fed into them. They cant do anything but that - they have to scale any input to native rez and push a progresive/whole frame to the screen.

CRT's are interlaced and can display different physical resolutions.

[Farno]

You need to sit down with a herbal tea