from a shortboard to a longboard

[surfsc77]

yesterday was my first experience with a longboard in awhile. it was about chest high and a little choppy. the board was a single fin, at least 10 feet long and about 3 inches thick.

paddeling and catching waves was no problem. i could go straight towards shore, but turning was impossbile. i could drop in just fine, but as soon as i tryed to turn the board to go down the line i fell right off. i tried to turn the board the same way i did my shortboard (I'm quessing this is where i ran into problems). was it the fin setup, cause i heard single fins are only good in smaller surf? or do you have to do a drop knee turn. any advice/help would be appreciated.

[bluesnowcone]

well i surf both a shortboard and a longboard ( although my shortboard is an egg) and iv found when im surfing my longboard and soon as im about to pop up i start looking down the line and i lean the way i want to go, longboarding is much more rail to rail surfing and pivoting the board. where as shortboarding is so much easyer to turn and move the board around the wave

[Roy Stewart]

Most longboard designs are still in the dark ages. .. . an ice cream stick planshape and poor rocker make them difficult to turn except when standing right on the tail. . . . on top of that the boards are slow and too light for smooth surfing.

If you want a longboard which turns well, is fast, and easy to ride then I can help with the design elements, it's pretty easy actually.

What usually happens is that longboarding newbies are so keen to look like everyone else that they elect to swallow the noseriding/boardwalking koolaid. . . . not realising that it is a dysfunctional anachronism from the McDonalds surfing industry propagandaq machine.

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[RJD]

Yeah Roy were all brainwashed, does it matter so long as the stoke is there?

surfsc77 - your probably used to drive from the back of the board on a shorty, a single fin needs to carve turns on the rails.

[surfsc77]

i was trying to dig a rail to go into my turn but i just very, very slowly feel over. it was sorta funny. It was a friends longboard and i think the only thing i learned from it was that i should get a smaller log, and thinner too. would a 9 foot with a big middle and two side bites be easier to move? i like my other friends walden magic 9 footer, but that board was like 15 to 20 years old. i dont know if they still make them like that.

[Roy Stewart]

Yeah Roy were all brainwashed, does it matter so long as the stoke is there?

Well yes you are brainwashed, as for stoke, not so much stoke on badly designed longboards. . . . in my experience the crew get very sad when they find that their equipment is outclassed, and they are only 'stoked' when they are all as bad as each other without anyone to show them how badly they are faring

True stoke comes from riding waves not from catching rails and falling off due to poor equipment. . . .

So yes, it does matter

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[Roy Stewart]

i was trying to dig a rail to go into my turn but i just very, very slowly feel over. it was sorta funny. It was a friends longboard and i think the only thing i learned from it was that i should get a smaller log, and thinner too. would a 9 foot with a big middle and two side bites be easier to move? i like my other friends walden magic 9 footer, but that board was like 15 to 20 years old. i dont know if they still make them like that.

It's not the length that is the problem, or the fin, it is the shape of the board. . . . the Walden board is not much better, all those boards are flawed from the very start. . .. .. they make turning hard due to the planshape and rocker and lack of weight, I have 12 footers that turn way more easily.

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[rich r]

Roy - you selling something?

I didn't hear someone give any details on the longboard he was riding other than 10 feet, 3 inches. I'd argue that longboards are all designed poorly. There are plenty of people out there that know how to make a decent longboard that isn't a carbon copy zero rocker malibu throwback.

Anyway - depends on the single fin you have.. I prefer a wingnut cutout (looks like a hockey stick with a bulb on the end. It loosens up the tail and makes it easier to turn.

You don't want to dig a rail as much as use the board's momentum to your advantage. There is more lower-body work involved than a shortboard. I tend to push down with my legs much more on a longboard and am much looser with my center of balance, since the board is more stable than a shortboard.

[bluesnowcone]

another thing is you can move your feet around, on a shortboard i always feel asthough my feet r glued and if i move them il fall off, but when im longboarding im always moving my feet around weather its cross stepping to the noes or even lifting the front of my foot up when im doing a back hand turn.

[Roy Stewart]

Roy - you selling something?

Yes, the truth, and it's free !

I didn't hear someone give any details on the longboard he was riding other than 10 feet, 3 inches.

You missed another detail. . . namely that the board cathes a rail and dumps the rider when a gentle rail tun is attempted. From this it can be deduced what the board type is

I'd argue that longboards are all designed poorly.

A statement which is not only incorrect ( some longboards have significant advantages over shortboards ), it also contradicts your next idea, thus you are contradicting yourself.

There are plenty of people out there that know how to make a decent longboard that isn't a carbon copy zero rocker malibu throwback.

How many is plenty? any longboard intended to be nose ridden automatically falls into the dysfunctional or poorly designed category, and that's the vast majority of them.

Anyway - depends on the single fin you have.. I prefer a wingnut cutout (looks like a hockey stick with a bulb on the end. It loosens up the tail and makes it easier to turn.

No fin is going to overcome the limitations imposed on a longboard by noseriding design constraints.

You don't want to dig a rail as much as use the board's momentum to your advantage.

In other words noseriding longboards can't do rail carves very well

There is more lower-body work involved than a shortboard. I tend to push down with my legs much more on a longboard and am much looser with my center of balance, since the board is more stable than a shortboard.

Thus you have to develop a more difficult and less natural way of surfing in order to make the badly designed board turn. . . . . the board isn't more 'stable' (read difficult to turn) because it's longer, it's more difficult to turn because of its shape. . . .. a well designed longboard can be turned with ease just by leaning on one rail . . . . complicated bodily posturing isn't necessary, this is an advantage as then the rider can turn his attention to riding the wave rather than controlling the board. . . . .

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[surfsc77]

hey roy, i saw your video on youtube today by complete accident. I've never seen any type of surfboard ridden that way before, pretty cool.

[Roy Stewart]

Which vid was that ?

Here's Tom Blake:

[Otter]

I would agree with alot of what Roy has written, but IMHO, it's the skill of the rider rather than the plank he's standing on.

[Roy Stewart]

In other words the guy with the VW can still get chicks but he has to try harder ?

[surfsc77]

im sure it has a lot to do with my lack of experience riding longboards. whats wrong with VW's?

[rich r]

Roy, if your coming from the position that if you're interested in nose riding, then the board is poorly designed, then I'd just say you have a personal bias.

And I would say that just because he said he's digging a rail doesn't imply a poorly designed board. I chalk it up to a shortboarder trying to direct a longboard like a shortboard. He didn't say he was 'gently' trying to attempt a turn. I imagine he's leaning into it and using more upper body than he needs to, thus pitching himself.

Also:

Quote:
I'd argue that longboards are all designed poorly.


A statement which is not only incorrect ( some longboards have significant advantages over shortboards ), it also contradicts your next idea, thus you are contradicting yourself.

What I was arguing was *your* statement that longboards are designed poorly. I personally do not think that is true. So, no contradicting of myself there. I probably could have worded it better, though, if you want to argue about it. I'd agree that a nicely designed longboard has significant advantages over a shortboard.

I'm not much of a nose rider, and the few longboards I have ridden have all been nice, maneuverable boards. Of course, no fin can change the purpose of a board, but then I'm not in agreement with your contention that all longboards are designed for noseriding, and thus have constraints that make them horrible for any other purpose.

Otter's got the point though. It always comes down to the rider. I think the right guy with a VW doesn't have to try at all to get the chicks. I know I don't. (grin)

[Roy Stewart]

There's no personal bias, it's simply a fact that the noseriding style of surfing and the boards that go with it are very poor in terms of waveriding function compared with a dedicated waveriding longboard.

If you want to discuss the reasons why in detail then i'll do it.. . . it's a mtter of rocker and planshape.


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[RJD]

OFcourse Roy doesnt think the 'Mal' is actualy a longboard, prehaps we should have short, Mal and Long sections especialy

[Roy Stewart]

Historically speaking a mal isn't a longboard, but that's a red herring, the point is that noseriding mals are slow, hard to turn, and generally very poor waveriding vehicles compared with longboards designed specifically for riding waves rather than as floating stages for performance of silly poses.

Those of you who ride mals are not going to agree for three simple reasons:

1) Because you have invested a lot of energy in your existing longboarding persona.

2) Because the magazines, surfshops, and other mal riders tell you that mals are good

3) Because you have never ridden anything better. . . . . the surf industry won't let you !

It's quite good that mal riders keep being mal riders . . . gives me a massive advantage in the surf

[RJD]

But where does he mention he's on a noserider?

Theres more than one type of mal.