Dispatches: Greenwash

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Dispatches: Greenwash

Postby Broosta » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:25 am

Anyone see the Channel 4 program earlier? If its true WOW :shock: !

Erm bassically its saying that global warming is a natural phenomena not caused by us or greenhouse gasses. And that all the current hype about carbon dioxide is due to political bollox and not based on scientific research. It says global warming is caused by the sun and will not get too warm anyway, same as it has done in the past and no worse. Government grants have funded all the 'research' and the media only print the hyped up stuff which is wrong but of interest for its sensationalist nature. The government had suddenly plowed 10 times the ammount of money into climate research since they decided to promote global warming as something caused by us that will destroy the planet. And they(Thatcher) began to do this in the 1970s but I can't remember why exactly... some way to control the people maybe, when the miners strikes were going on and the oil crisis was in full effect.

Discuss. :D
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Postby ^*^BATMAN^*^ » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:59 am

Well the core sample data taken from the Antartic region sais different. It sais that there has been a steady increase in Carbon Dioxide levels in the air, and temperature for the last couple hundred thousand years....
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Postby jethrodog » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:59 am

which, it sounds like it is a natural phenomenom, caused by something other than humans effect on the planet. Call me crazy but last time I checked I don't think they had full size SUV's 100,000 years ago....
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Postby libby » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:57 am

I think the main point to bear in mind is that most scientists are working on the basis of the 'precautionary principle'. I think that there is one hell of alot of evidence suggesting that human CO2 is causing climate change, but that we cannot absoloutley prove it 100%. I study ecology in a univeristy with one of the biggest climate change research centres (The Climate Research Unit, The Tyndall Centre for Climate Change and the Zicer Building are all part of UEA) in the world and alot of the research produced here is what government are basing things on. Even here we are taught about UNCERTAINTIES and the possibility that things are naturally occuring.

The point is that if we do not act now and 50 years down the line we find out it was human CO2 causing it, then we are screwed. We have to act now 'just in case'. Also alot of the climate change mitigation (flood defence, species range investigations) is relevant regardless of what is causing it. And even if it isn't big cars etc etc causing global warming we are still living unsustainably and cutting down CO2 emmissions is no bad thing.

The idea that if its not CO2 causing climate change then we can all just go Oh well fleshin' it lets just keep consuming is ridiculous. Even if CO2 isnt casuing problems now it sure as hell could.
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Postby drowningbitbybit » Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:08 am

The director/producer of that program has made a neat little niche career for himself by being the only one that makes documentaries saying global warming isnt due to mankind :roll:

Much of the 'science' in the program is very biased and based on '2 + 2 = 5 therefore 6 = cupboards from Ikea'.

I'm not disagreeing with need for debate - but even if global warming isnt caused by CO2, release of 'greenhouse gases' is causing the ecological system that is the planet to collapse. Acidification of the oceans (partially caused by increased CO2) is a good example - nothing to do with global warming, but still VERY BAD.

You cant change a complex system without some consequence.


So keep recycling, stop flushing chemicals down the loo, and walk to the shops :wink:
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Postby Phil » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:26 am

its likley its more to do with the slight variation in the earths orbit around the sun that goes in cycles every 21000 years?

Yes its invertible there is not a lot we can do to stop it but we can slow it down. by pumping all the CFC’s and other pollutants into the atmosphere we are just speeding up the process.
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Postby pault » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:36 am

I've always thought this, and agree with Phil and other comments.

I See it as basic physics, when you did the experiment of putting metal filings on paper then placed the magnet underneath and you can see the lines of force. Thats how it is over the polar points, and the closer to the sun the stronger the magnetic forces, the surrounding areas will react accordingly. But thats just my thought on it.

Always good to have someone throwing a spanner in the works of conventional thinking. Like I was chatting to Libs before about Richard Dawkins, a great read for anyone was hasn't read any of his books.
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Postby chris fixxy » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:24 am

Polemic documentaries are all the rage now. I think the bloke doesnt actually 100% believe what he makes, but makes it in the interest a balance debate.
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Postby Sar » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:42 am

i wanted to watch that!! but completly forgot about it.

No scientist but I do remember when doing my GCSEs reading that the earth goes through cycles of heating and cooling so the global warming may be just be part of that cycle.

People using their cars less, planting more trees, preventing defortestation - if these are the side affects of people thinking that global warming may be our fault then Im ok with it. Global warming or none humans have had a rather large and detrimental affect of the earth imo.

I dont think the hysteria in the media recently was helpful or productive - I cant stand these Moral panics as it tends to polarise peoples veiws. Your either for or against - no inbetween, no moderate opinion. Makes out its a new problem and then the politicians come out with knee jerk policies that havent been thought through.

I genuinely used to lay awake worrying about this stuff because of the 'doom' peddaling by the media :oops:
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Postby Phil » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:58 pm

one of my lectures brought this up today and said he didnt agree with alot of what was said in the documentry, and will go into it next week in the lectures.

even if we arnt causing global warming doesnt mean we should carry on pumping the large amounts of crap into the atmosphear we do, infact ice core studys have shown that in cold ice age periods CO2 levels were around 180ppm and rose to 280-300 ppm and is now over 360ppm

methane never exceded 770ppb and is now over 1700ppb these incresses are having a huge impact on climate change, so we might not cause it but we are certanly contributing to it
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Postby CheeZee » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:25 pm

lmao.. last nights program was bang on and well overdue 8)

Green power , Black death ..i suggest all read it :D

The Green issue gave us nothing more than a new way for fleshers to rip money from us ..and as for recycling .. man " .. why do you think your local council will only take materials that have a worth' ??! .. and as for re-cycling paper .. you deliver it too them , they re-use it and then sell it back to you in the pretence that your helping the enviro ..lolol

c'mon peeps .. the green issue is about nothing more than cash .

Obviously there are responsible acts of re-cycling and saving the earth etc but stop looking in a straight line, thats how the suits want you to view the world :D

p.s ..now hopefully the world will see the real deal about why the poor fleshers in Africa have been kept in the dark .... " all the Green jive that has been forced upon them has done nothing but kill people.

CheeZer ...lookin sidewayz :twisted:
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Postby Phil » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:48 pm

CheeZee wrote:
The Green issue gave us nothing more than a new way for fleshers to rip money from us ..and as for recycling .. man " .. why do you think your local council will only take materials that have a worth' ??! .. and as for re-cycling paper .. you deliver it too them , they re-use it and then sell it back to you in the pretence that your helping the enviro ..lolol



so what would you perfer someone recycling your paper and making a slight profit, or some one hacking down acres and acres of tropical rain forest turning it into paper and selling it?
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Postby FishKid Wales » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:02 pm

Most of the recycle policys in this country are 1/2 assed attempts at winning votes.

Why does everything come with so much plastic packaging?
Surly all bottled drinks etc could come in glass bottles that could then be returned to the shop (reclaim deposit) then rewashed an reused. like they have in Holland.
Far less damaging in regards to production and less to be dumped in landfills as well, everybody's a winner!

But i suppose a 1/2 assed attempt is better than no attempt.
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Postby pat42 » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:04 pm

Remember in the '80s there was a great big hole in the ozone layer over Australia cos we used CFC's?

We should go back to using CFC's, make another hole and let all the CO2 out and then stop using CFC's again to seal it up


Simple, really.

I think we should just accept the consequences of our actions and get on with our lives.........the human race isnt going to die out and all this global warming crap is just another way to tax us
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Postby Broosta » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Just remembered why Thatcher decided to go on the 'global warming is bad and we caused it' crusade in the late 1970s. Cos she wanted to promote nuclear energy... bit like Blair is now... :? .
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Postby Broosta » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:21 pm

Erm and it wasn't Dispatches:Greenwash I saw at all! :oops:


It was 'The Great Global Warming Swindle'.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html
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Postby GowerCharger » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:21 pm

yeah i watched that, it was very convincing, but i never believe anything i see or read, especially things written by scientists. IT was basically the extreme opposite view to what most people are now aggreeing on (even america) and imho extremeism is important, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of what each side of extremisits are saying. Unfortuanatly lots of people seem to just believe what theyre told without question if theyre told it by supposedly knowledgeable "scientists" without realising that there is an agenda behind BOTH sides of the debate. Same blind faith principle that religion works on.

I dont believe in science anyway, and im not convinced about global warmings existence, weve had snow here 4 years in a row where we would normally get snow once every 4 years or so at most, and teh seas still bloody freezin now.
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Postby Real Pol » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:27 pm

CheeZee wrote: ..and as for recycling .. man " .. why do you think your local council will only take materials that have a worth' ??! .. and as for re-cycling paper .. you deliver it too them , they re-use it and then sell it back to you in the pretence that your helping the enviro ..



Anyone who questions recycling should get themselves along to their local landfill site and see the amount of waste we just bury. Even better, as people concerned with water quality, go and see the amount of leachate that comes out these things.

Recycling is just a money spinner? Millions are spend on old disused landfills all over the country just to stop them pollutiing.


Well put phil, I used to work in fisheries research and all the fishermen blamed the dwindling fish stocks on rising sea temperatures. To me that just makes it clearer that thier quotas should be reduced, but they couldn't see that. Same with CO2.
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Postby Stone Fox » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:34 pm

Read Michael Crichton's "State of Fear" - Then look at the bibliography in the back!
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Postby Phil » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:46 pm

GowerCharger wrote:I dont believe in science anyway, and im not convinced about global warmings existence, weve had snow here 4 years in a row where we would normally get snow once every 4 years or so at most, and teh seas still bloody freezin now.


mate most places will get warmer but the UK will get colder the melting of the ice caps on greenland and the artic will cause massive amounts of fresh water to enter the sea, meaning that when the warm saline water brought up from the gulf stream cools down and mixes with the fresher water coming down from the artic it cant sink, so the gulf stream stops. without that we will end up with a climate like that of alaska, its only for the gulf stream that we have such a mild climate.
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