Epoxy surfboards.

[Guest]

You are long physically...and frankly, you're really light, I'm an inch taller than you and weigh 45 pounds more. I imagine at your weight you'd really struggle to dint a board...in any circumstances.
Perhaps your board also has a 6oz glass job on the deck I don't know. I'm not going to debate it with you. You obviouly know more about board design & basic engineering than me from reading on the Web - even though I been surfing for almost twice as long as you've been alive and am a practicing planner with a major in civil engineering...
I'll keep this really simple so you can understand.

Designing & building a surfboard is like anything else that moves through water, or air for that matter. Just like a bicycle racing wheel, a racing yacht or an aeroplane wing. It's just simple physics...
Anything solid that moves will encounter opposing forces- gravity, air resistance, water resistance etc. These opposing forces can be dynamic (moving wave, frothing white-water or wind blowing up the face of the wave for example). Or they can be static, best example being the weight of the surfer pressing down on the board while riding it.

A properly engineered & built item is designed to withstand those loads in normal use. Most have an element of over-engineering built in for safety and life-span.

Now; way back in the 1940's when fiberglass was invented..it was a miracle material. It's was easy to work with, to mould into shapes like boat hulls, reasonably light, it had inherent strength with some flexability, it absorbed vibration and during WWII especially it was especially popular because it was non-magnetic.

In later years (early 1960's) they started making surfboards from it and all was well because the boards were 9-10 feet long and easily 3-4 inches thick. The glass was heavy-weight...those boards were strong.

Now...roll forward four decades, to a time of affordable titanium bicycle frames with life-time gaurentees (Merlin etc), light carbon fiber cycle racing wheels with tested load capacities of 400 kilos (Hed H3's...and they're cheaper than a good surfboard too) carbon-fibre yacht hulls, expony wakeboards, tennis rackets, skis you name it......yet we still we still make surfboards from this 50 year old material called fiberglass.

Why? there are two reasons...

1) Because there is a whole industry thriving & selling you & me about a board per year with the status quo just fine as it is. If you had shares in 3M & Clarke foam...would you want to change things???

2) Most board-makers are small-scale, small business, "lifestyle" shapers, they make boards because they love surfing & taking off work when the surf is good. They do not have the budget to experiment, employ CAD designers or engineers to work on better materials.

Now, boards are way thinner, lighter glassed, more sharply shaped & expected to perform to far higher standards that those boards back in the 1960's.....but they're hindered by the fact we still use foam & fiberglass.
Could a shaper/surfer from the 1960's even imagine what we'd be attempting on boards these days....hell, they'd struggle to even catch a wave on many current boards.

A young-gun surfer on a light board risks breaking a board everytime he does & lands an aerial. Our top pros are so hindered by their equipment and their boards are so stressed from an engineering perspective that a board used by them can measure it's lifespan in weeks.
I cannot name another sport where product failure at this high-level is so prolific....when was the last time you saw a tennis pro break a racket on TV???

Yep, that's me done.
Brent

[rookie]

hey guys,
we've had a lot of discussion on old technology vs. new, fiberglass vs. epoxy. while i did enjoy the issues brought up (environment, capital flight, tradition), i still have not heard much about how it rides. as my name suggests, i'm very new to surfing and i'm looking for a board that is stable and easy, but still manageable when transporting it to the beach. can an epoxy provide that for me?

re: the robert august board recently purchased by Don, what model was that?

thanks!
the rookie

[Guest]

The board is a Tufflite 8' 4" check Surftechs web site http://www.surftech.com/l

Don

[Fred]

Because epoxy/styrene is stiffer and lighter than poly glass/foam the boards ride more stiffly and are more responsive. Some surfers like the lightness, some find the boards slap more when it's choppy. Overall you could go a bit thinner and shorter to make up for the extra bouyancy if this is a concern. Everyone I've talked to who owns a Surftech short board (Merrick Flyer, Santa Cruz's, etc.) likes them alot. Appears to be just a different feel from glass, like with various skis, golf clubs, rackets, etc.

Anyone not like the ride? I'd like to know as my next board will probably be by Surftech.

[michaeldl]

psst!don't tell anyone I told you but if dude don't use optimal temps and construction tecniques then mr board gets mr gass bubbel and leaves surfer couple yards out with somthing looking like a bouy to paddel in on it has not been perfected to the point where every shaper can bust out a bomb product with epoxy yet given the envromental and educational limitations of the shaper fiberglass being somewhat more of a benchmark materal in the industry and although toxic is a little more tried and true but don't give up on epoxy and some of the new resins coming out soon us shapers won't have to breath that crap but unless you trust the dude making your stick be carefull

[Guest]

I ride a 10" Robert August 'What I ride model' and a 7'10" both epoxy and they turn and paddle as well as any of my f/g models of similar length.

Some of you may not know the shaping machine takes the measured angles and lengths from over 200 points on the hand shaped 'original' to get its final shaping. This will increase with time and technology.

I have surfed since '69 and in 7 countries to date. No doubt the epoxy boards have a big future IMO.

I can't see myself riding my shortboards (6'-7'2") in epoxy at this stage because I still like the experience of talking with the shaper and ordering my board in glass, but again I think that will change in time.

Lots of people kid themeselves about their relationship with their shaper. Most shapers, regardless of the personal instructions of the buyer, will still produce (shape) what they think will work in the particular conditions in which the board is being used, taking into consideration weight, height, experience and surfing style of the buyer. If you look carefully at old custom order forms shapers may have lying around in their bays, you'll see the remarkable similarilty between the orders. (Unless they are shaping for surf conditions not within their locale).

I see the future (and to some extent right now) of surfing being
- buying a softboard for learning the basics (6 months)
- buying a few epoxy boards to suit various conditions for ensuing years (2-5) and updating as technology improves and new designs come and go
- buying a custom f/g board for the aesthetics (colour and graphics) and for tweaking the board for the custom needs of the competitive club to pro surfer.

Price - epoxy will be cheaper than f/g for sure. Right now you can buy an August epoxy cheaper than his same f/g model.

[garyl]

I was told that there is a manufacturer of epoxy surfboards in bangkok - does anybody know who this company is and if so can you give me a contact email, phone etc.

Thanks if you can.
Cheers
GaryL

[Guest]

I was told that there is a manufacturer of epoxy surfboards in bangkok - does anybody know who this company is and if so can you give me a contact email, phone etc.

Thanks if you can.
Cheers
GaryL

Don't know this helps Garry but my Robert August epoxy Board and I think my NSP epoxy are both made in Thailand. Maybe go to newsurfprojects.com to see if this is correct in relation to NSP. I know August epoxy's are made in Thailand.

Cheers
Mark

[dudezzzz]

some people keep saying that all epoxy boards are made overseas, this is not true. you can generally ask a shaper to do this for you. its a simple equation for an epoxy board; less foam + more glass = epoxy finish.
Olsen Boards i know will do this for you' check it out online.

[anonymous coward]

This is who manufactures boards for surftech. Probably a better place to work than the factory that makes Ron Jon boards. They claim to be ISO 9000 which in theory could make it a safer place to work than an OSHA compliant shop.

http://www.cobrainter.com/

[anonymous coward]

And here

http://www.reinforcedplastics.com/WZ/RPlastics/latest_feats/months_features/000043/show/

[mtmsurf]

i'm mickey miller i design epoxy surfboards not the pop out types they are all custom i make the blanks and prefer them over polyester in south florida they are not good in big hollow surf mmsurfboards.com :D but they are so light i call them miller lite's

[michaeldl]

I'm definatly down for innovation we definately need more work in that direction so I'm gonna shape a few epoxy boards with some of my skills from the typical glass knowlage with the added understanding that there are problems with both systems I like the fact that epoxy won't screw up your health so much cuz that tish is pretty bad and theres some new less toxic glass out there but once again it kinda comesdown to price point and skills and theres a definate lack of general knowlage on new techniques so it will of course be a lot of trial an error to obtain great knowlage in the feild given its new status but ill let u know what I find with it as I go

oh I never stress too much about machine shaping if thats what u want u should go get it but shapers in there area if they have knowlage still produce better product than any cookie cutter method not to say I dont beleve in tec shaping but most people never surf well enough to know the diffrence from a few millimeaters here or there and on top of that factory boards arn't an art form there just capitalizem even though I still am envolved in some form of it to stay afloat ultimatly for me shaping is still linked to the soul of surfing do u wan't a peice of hand crafted art or ...

[VBnorthendsurfer]

would you ever consider shaping me a fish when i get the money? and if so how much would you charge?

[G]

yes brah and that will depend on what u want epoxy or glass and if you want oversize or what ever just e mail demensions and don't be in too much of a hurry cuz I'm a litte bit out this being the problem with hand shaping and where u need it sent to mdlevitt2002@yaho.com

[G]

oh ya if ya don kno what demensions ya want tell me how big u r what kind of waves u like to ride and what kind of preformance u r looking for think about things like if u want it for airs or pullin in to tight spots

[LLG]

Hi guys... OK...we need to stop and think here...This whole epoxy/fiberglass thing...I think we need to get back to grassroots....why do we surf?? What our boards are made out of is actually irrelevent.... a professional female surfer on "Step into Liquid" answered a question posed to her..."Who is the best surfer?" and she responded, "the person who's having the most fun Back in the day, didn't the Duke ride the big old balsa redwood longboard The Hawaiians rode wooden boards back then and had a blast I'm sure...then came fiberglass...and we rode those boards till the cows came home and loved every minute of it..(check out "Surfing for Life") a great movie about geriatric surfing, very awe-inspiring, seriously...now...we go to epoxy....well, if you ask me, I feel the epoxy boards are ugly, I just have an aesthetic reason why I don't like them..AND...I'm old school..BUT...it's not for me to cut anyone down who wants to use one of these..OR...to put down the epoxy material itself.....If it WORKS for you, more power to you..by the way, Noah Shimabukuro surfs with epoxy in competition, just as a note...anyway..ISN'T IT ALL ABOUT HAVING FUN AND ENJOYING the water??...to me, whatever intensifies that feeling in a board should be the board for you...as for myself, I just bought a Donald Takayama fiberglass "In the Pink" and it is awesome...it lifts me up every time I ride it and gives me a feeling of health, confidence and general well-being...IT'S THE STOKE THAT MATTERS....NUFF SAID

[hicarbon]

I'm bringing this post back just because I find it very interesting. I can understand where people would find the idea of machine use with boards useful as like Brent mentioned, if someone e-mails Al Merrick and gives him a serial number to his board with specs he'd like to be different, then that same board can be created within an hour and shipped out after curing.

However, you can't say that "Just think, you too could have a signature Al Merrick surfboard that is custom made by Al himself", because if he's using a machine to shape the board and then sending it off to be glassed, you essentially aren't getting that custom signature board. You're getting a replica of the original. I agree with those that say a custom fibreglass is the way to go, if you are wanting to put out that extra money and if the "spirituallity" and "close connection with the shaper" is what you're looking for.

Just my $.02 though!

Cheers,Ryan

[deathfrog]

epoxy boards just don't meen popouts from asia or surftechs, you can still make a hand shaped and glassed surfboard but glass it with epoxy.

there shouldn't be a big generalazation about all epoxy boards being crap, because their not.

popouts may be, surftechs may be also, but I make epoxy boards and I don't think their crap.

I don't have any big machines that blow foam into prefab epoxy shells, I handshape a blank, and use the same cloth, just use an EPOXY resin instead of POLYESTER.

They have a better flex return, they don't ding as easily, it takes forever to dent, lasts to uv better, more user freindly, better for the environment and the glasser, cost a bit more but hey, with all this why is it so sucky?


that's the only difference, I hate all this generalazation xxxxx.

[WaveJunkie]

I'm gonna jump into the fray without reading most of the posts -- I get the general drift of the discourse here.

You can do honeycomb polymers -- all sorts of materials that are easily shaped and glassed over.

These days a lazer and CAD will produce an optimal board. There are no "molding issues" like in a kayak because the board is a solid materia, not a hull. It's possible to shape a board by lazer because it's a solid form, not a "hull" -- not hollow.

Carbon fibre is much more sophisticated than glass and resin. More flex, lighter, stronger.

We could do boards in carbon fibre. Cost might jump by 33% or thereabouts, but quality would jump too.

"Shaping" is a "folklore" these days -- but digital tech. and CAD can displace all that. Just like computers have made drummers obsolete **G** .

I'm really new to this stuff, but have a 9' 4" Modern, "pop-out" -- glassed, triple stringer. It's a fine board and not a lot of $$$.

I'm sure there are super performance boards out there that are hand shaped . . . but CAD and leading edge tech. can put materials together at or beyond the custom shapers.

Custom shapers need to get attached to the CAD resources and form boards digitally.