Epoxy surfboards.

[HI]

Well first hand alot of people may think epoxies arent good and say things like "why arent the top pros riding them", and the thing is they are. Look at Pancho for instnace, he almost always rides a surftech, and rob mochado, C.J. Hobbs, and other pros dont ride then cause theyve been used to traditional surfboard for so long they cant handle the fact that their riding these epoxies, and they also said they are better but they just like to ride there oldies. Also many of my friend ride epoxies and they say they are alot more better then there old traditional boards, because there new boards are faster and alot more responsive, and these boards are also a santa cruz, an M10, and a Webber-Webber model, also thw webber is by far one of the best templates, because you dont need to change your foot positioning tp throw some fat snappper dappers.

Sorry for the bad vocabs.

[Andy]

Brent,

Excellent responses and very well said. I've been thinking exactly the same things (about Detroit, other sport gear, etc.)

My background is 20 plus years teaching skiing, windsurfing and recently I've gotten into surfing. All major ski brands mass-produce, as do most windsurf board manufacturers. In windsurfing, epoxy construction is the norm, either custom or production (also made at the Cobra factory where Surftech's are made). The boards last longer than you need them to considering the pounding they get and still look great and are worth something at resale time.

I recently bought a glass Merrick board and after 6 times the deck looks like a golfball, just from knee and heel dents, no abuse. And I am 150 lbs and wear booties and a 6mm wetsuit! How would it look if I weighed 200 lbs and was hard on my gear? The durability of glass boards really is unacceptable.

For my next board I'll definitely consider epoxy technologies, as more companies are getting into it. Check out Point Blanks, Schuler, and the XTR boards which build for Merrick, Lost, Surf Prescriptions, etc. and the latest Salomon's S-core, which Eric Arakawa of HIC is supporting.

WRT to the pros. In any sport the pros at the highest level will usually have a custom product, or prototype. This eventually will make it to the production level one way or another. The main thing World Cup skier's skis have in common to production models is the topsheet decal. Their skis are hand made with differing constructions, stiffnesses etc., that mere mortals probably couldn't contend with anyway. I think the same applies to most sports for those not at the highest levels...it may be hard to admit but most of us don't need Kelly Slater's exact small wave board in the exact same construction. I personally would want one that may be easier to ride in all conditions and lasts more than a weekend. I think the future for surfboards is longevity, durability and lightness ala windsurfing. As Surftech grows, more and more shapes and sizes will be available, stiffnesses will be sorted out, and surfers will adjust to epoxy's benefits by ordering shorter and thinner boards, most likely.

Look at skiing and tennis and golf? I used to ski on a 201 cm SL ski and now I'm on a 170 cm. They are easier to turn and just as stable. And they are getting shorter and more stable every year! Similarly, tennis rackets and golf club changes have made it easier to learn and more satisfying for the experts.

That's my $0.02.
Andy

[Guest]

On this topic people.... can anybody name a sport that is not more enjoyable, cheaper to take part in, more accessable to more people, safer to do as a result of modern technology & progress lending a hand?

I'm thinking hard about stuff like mountain biking, road cycing, golf, windsurfing, tennis, motor racing, rock climbing, water sking, wakeboardin,snowboarding, skiing and I can't think of one example.

can anybody be objective & give us an example of the "good ole days" actually being better?? I can't think of one.

Brent

[Andy]

I don't think there is any logic to the argument to preserve the craftsmanship of old technology. I believe it's the same type of stubborness and/or protectionism and even sometimes racism that has people defending their Harley's over "Jap Cruisers", and Ford 150's over "Rice Burners".

North American's appetites for faster/bigger/better/cheaper have lead to larger and larger (mostly American) companies using mass purchasing power and technology from abroad (like Surftech) so it's pretty ironic when you hear consumers defending the little (likely American) guy building boards in his backyard trying to make a buck. I'd like to know where these consumers eat, shop, etc...likely Starbucks, McD's, Walmart, Ford, and so on.

FYI, Dakine, O'Neill, Rusty, Quicksilver, Billabong and just about every other surf accessories company makes their stuff in Asia now, so we've all "sold out" one way or another.

I didn't realize how conservative some of the surfing community is but I think it's just a matter of time before better technology is accepted. Again ironically, it'll probably be Salomon, a french company, that will be the first to be fully accepted in changing the way boards are made.

[Guest]

Agree totally, it'll be a company that has cool Euro pedigree & Branding that makes real moves..and the initial punters who purchase the boards won't realise it's really a "Kamakuza" made in Thailand. Coming from a European Company rather than Asia directly your American laws re identifing the country of manafacture don't apply as much (I believe??)
By the time they do there will be enough of them saying "hey, this really is a good product after all" and the groundswell (pun intended) begins.

Just like Japanese Cameras (ah la Nikon & Canon) did by exactly copying German Leica' in the 1960's.

Brent

[Guest]

i was just about to post about the soloman S-core Andy from what ive read about it it seems like its going to be the next big thing

ive been told that surf techs are made in sweat shops but theres no proof of this just what ive read

the good thing about the local shapers is they know the breaks you are gonna be surfing well, so can make a board that works best for that break where as a surf tech you get what there is you cant get a custom one made and twaeked to your specs, maybe this will change as time goes on

don't think there is any logic to the argument to preserve the craftsmanship of old technology

theres alot of sole in riding an old board i would love to ride a board like the duke did or the early wooden surf boards would be an amazing feeling to know how they felt to ride some of the early boards so it should be preserved in away

[Guest]

Of course. Learn from your history, preserve & enjoy it if your lucky to have the oppertunity.
The best example I can think of here is our old family 4x4. In 1952 my Dad bought an english Landrover brand-new. He still owns it (he's almost 90 now). Abit now it's fully restored (cost me a damm fortune) and is a treasured family antique that sits in his garage for our use.
We all learned to drive in "Noel" the landrover, it is full of cherished family memories...he's one of us.

My analogy is; Years later in 2004 my two other siblings own prentious gas-guzzling, leather seated 4x4's the size of tanks - and they love them for all their bells & whistles. But, despite 52 years worth of technology & mechanical progress in 4x4 design... one of the most enjoyable experiences for us is to get together with our friends and take Noel the Landrover out for a drive in the country and get him seriously dirty!!!

Why? Because it's living history and it's fun, it's the original concept in it's barest form, pure in design and intent - a simple unprentious farm tool designed to be used hard...not polished & coveted. It doesn't have electric windows or a CD player.. he doesn't even have a heater:-(

Likewise if I had a vintage redwood longboard, damm sure I'd have the whole family out on it too.

Brent

[Andy]

Absolutely agree, there is nothing wrong with riding or using or supporting what you like, my references are to those that put down new or different items or technology in order to justify their choices. Why not just be open to the pros and cons?

WRT custom shapes for your local break, I can see how this has some merit for pro-level riders, but for the "average" expert I think it's probably overrated. Most major shapers make a variety of models in standard shapes and sizes to cover small gutless waves to barrels like Pipeline, so there is probably a standard board in their line that will meet whatever needs you have for your size at your beach.

Check out the current selection of Surftech's on the web site as well as the ones Santa Cruz surfboards and Channel Islands offer and there is sure to be a model that works for 99% of the surfers out there. Proper selection of production gear seems to work for most other sports so I don't see how surfing is so different. Not that custom glass boards are bad, just that other options may be worth considering depending on your needs (lightness, longevity, durability, resale, etc.).

[tiny2]

being neither an asp stud nor a master shaper, maybe my op isn't worth a ton, but:

having surfed fiberglass/foam boards for 13+ yrs, i took a surftech out a few times in chest to head+ conditions. although very similar in dimensions (including width and thickness) to one of my own boards, i was not overly impressed. it underperformed the fiberglass/foam in almost every aspect. i found myself driving for speed alot more than should be normal for head high, long period surf. turns across the top and bottom felt sluggish as well.

do i know why? not really. shoot, maybe i had lead legs that day and didn't realize it.

but i do know this: on the golf course i not going to buy a new driver because its the wave of the future. i am going to buy it because i can hit farther and straighter with it. same goes for surfing. if i can have a shaper make something that best fits my style and ability, i'm gonna roll with that. so until i see an epoxy that can match, guess i'm still a traditionalist...

cheers!

[Guest]

And your last paragraph is almost exactly what I heard from several die-hard racers of Italian steel Bicycle frames in the late 1980's & early 1990's. The sport may be different, but comments re ride, feeling etc are similar.

Does anybody know a cyclist who rides/races a steel frame now?
I rest my case.
Brent

[Harry]

Hi all,

Very interesting thread.

I have heard that EPS (polystyrene) / epoxy boards are much less harmfull to the environment and to the shapers health - is this true? I would be greatful for some hard facts and evidence.

I know that PU foam and polyester resin (conventional surf board materials) are pretty toxic and unenvironmentally friendly.

If EPS / epoxy boards are much better in this respesct, surly this would be a good enough reason alone to make the switch?

Any thoughts on materials for a truely environmentally friendly surfboard?

Harry

[Guest]

I just bought one of these boards last week. I got it From Huntington Surf and Sport during the Us Open of Surfing, it's a Robert August model 8' 4". I'm 6' 200 lbs and this thing surfs very well.

While I was purchsing the board, who walks in but Robert August himself. I talked to him about the board and he said that it was a really popular design and that i would really like it, and I do. Granted, I have only surfed ithe board in small waves so far but it paddles really well for such a thin board.

This technology will get more quality shapes from gifted artists into the hands of more people than would other wise be possible , just like silk screening can get fine art reproductions into the hands of people who could otherwise not afford it.

Don

[Guest]

Yep, I'm going to try one next too.
I normally get two new boards a year, at the moment I'm going through a "Fish Hybrid" phase and reciently has a 6' x 20" swallow tail made. It's got a nice wide nose & tail and I ride it as a twin fin with a small GS trailer fin behind. It's the business on small high quality waves 1-2 feet.

My shaper buddy mentioned earlier in this thread has already suggested I buy one very similar to this board he's just made me...I think he's more curious than me to see what I think. Funny that. Now if only I could find one in Kevlar :-)
Brent.

[tiny2]

Now if only I could find one in Kevlar

....then a shark could shoot you with a rifle and you'd be a-okay.

[Brent]

Now that's clever.
Hey - George Bush could get his mates at Hallberton to start producing them and we could all have WMD proof & terrorist proof surfboards. The added bonus for us being Ole Whitey down below woudn't like the taste either:-)I'm sure.

[Guest]

for some reason that reminds me of the Apocalypse Now surfing scene with Robert Duvall....

[coz]

i have said about as much as i could but there is just one more thing. i have noticed the re-accuring complaint of stress dents in the center of your board from knees when you duck-dive. well in a recent study it was proven that using your foot instead of your knee bashing your board to duck-dive that it is less harmfull and even more effective. its true if you want proof then look at your old surfing mag (not quite sure the exact date though). you can put your foot where you would put your knee depending on how big the board id for leverage or you can put your foot on your traction pad and push down. i have had my 6'3 since i turned 11 (i an now 14) and i only have 2 or three stress dents on my deck. i was recently surfing with a bunch of pros who use the same knee technique b/c they didnt know about the foot technique and they were amazed with the lack of stress dents on my board. my board has constant use and it has only had about 3 minor dings b/c of respect for my eqiuptment.

another problem is hopping. people hop their boards in mushy surf to gain speed. once again the wrong technique. simpley pump your board using more of a rolling motion from rail to rail (like on a on a skateboard or longboard skateboard. also great to practice on your longboard skateboard). this is in the recent issue of surfing and it is used to help you throw bigger spray.

hontestly what more do i need to say

[Guest]

Coz, you're missing the whole point.
My quiver consists of everything from 5'10" fish (real one & hybrid) to 6'8" mini-guns. All my boards are customs with 4+6oz glass jobs
I weigh 160 pounds and am 5'9" tall, I am neither heavy, fat nor rough on my gear. I have surfed for 25+ years now and I have ANYWAYS used my foot on the tail to sink my boards when duck-diving. Like most people when doing this sometimes I bang my knee on the deck, likewise when I fall off I sometimes bang my heel on the deck as well...just like everybody else. This is called normal useage in anybodys laungauge.

A board gets pressure-dents because it is weak Coz....not because you're rough with it. Any item regardless of it being a bicycle, car-door, tennis racket, wake board, golf-club, climbing rope or whatever is engineered with enough strength to ensure it remains undamaged in normal use. Use the example I quoted above of you Dad's car-door. If you lean on it...does it get a dent in it. Nope. That is because it's strong enough for the purpose it's intended.

So why should a surfboard dent so easily?

Answer: because we as surfers desire ever-increasingly lighter & thinner boards the traditional materials we currently use to make them (fiberglass & foam) are no longer able to achieve the desired result and have a reasonable lifespan. I wear-out on average about a board a year. This I believe is pretty much about average for a person in the water 4-7 times per week like me.

Can you imagine it if a bicycle you rode to school & home each day wore out after 1 year's use??? Nope. That wouldn't be acceptable would it?

I suggest you've never pressure-dinged a board because you're 14 years old..when I was your age I weighed about half what I do now. You're too light to pressure ding a board yet.

Brent

[coz]

115 pound person cant pressure dent a board? i am extremely bigger than anyone in my school. i am not what one would call your average size 14 year old. i am 5'8 115 pounds.

[Inletsurfer]

I get along fine with out putting my knee on my board when duck diving...i just push down on my nose and then sortof dive down...i can get under a good 3-4 feet no problem this way