coincidence or divine intervention?

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coincidence or divine intervention?

Postby surfishlife » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:10 am

i was thinking, as i've been reading about Kelly Slater... a question.

so, he had it relatively rough growing up at home, and found refuge in surfing...it was his escape. he put his heart into surfing, and obviously was master since his young age.

for one, it is his hard work and dedication to surfing that is partially the reason for his skill, but the other part is his natural ability and talent.

do you believe in his natural talent as a coincidence, or something almost divinely pre-determined? i ask this because it's almost as if, his home life was meant to be rocky, so he could be meant to surf.

i myself am not a believer in any particular faith, but do believe in some basic destiny, divinity. just was curious if any of you had thought about this at all... :)
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Postby isaluteyou » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:51 am

aha a philosophical question. This is actually both very easy to answer but impossible to clarify :lol:

example - If i had not of moved to the US i would have never surfed (i know this for certain) The circumstances that led me to the US was music related. If i had never met my music partner i would never have jooined a band. If i had never watched pink floyd live i would have never learnt the guitar which means i would have never joined a band which means i would have never come to the US and learnt how o surf. PHEW! :lol:

Coincidence? I doubt it too many variables. remove but 1 of the aboe and the rest cease to exist

The next thing to consider is where does natural talent come from not everyone is born with it. John lennon when asked how does he write music he replied to something of this effect (not actual quote but something like this) "I have no idea it just comes to me" anybody who does anything creative knows that sometimes it just comes like writing a song i could be sitting in the bath thinking about apples and suddenly a tun pops in my head and i get up grab my guitar and the melody flows. Wherd that come from.

:lol: thats a mind boggler.

The philospher nicher(sp) said "I think therefore iam" came to that conclusion after analysing life when no answer was found thats the conlusion was drawn.
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Postby drowningbitbybit » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:23 am

isaluteyou wrote:Coincidence? I doubt it too many variables. remove but 1 of the aboe and the rest cease to exist


A philosopher-cum-scientist once said something along the lines of "I saw a car today with the registration number T767 JKP. Like, wow! What are the chances of that?"

His point being that to say something cant be a coincidence, its a million to one shot, you cant work backwards.
Now if I was to spot that registration plate on the way home from work today, that would be a truly remarkable coincidence. But otherwise its just random.

You could work backwards from wherever you are and it'll look like you were led there.

I stayed at my girlfriends last night. My girlfriend is doing a different job from normal today, so she got up a bit earlier, so I got up at the same time, she's vegan so there's no milk in her fridge, so I didnt have a cup of tea, so I cycled to work, when I got in early I got straight on and started work, now its almost 10.30am, and Im dying for a nice hot cup of tea, so Ive stopped work for ten minutes, which means I can look at SurfingWaves.... Which is how I can reply on this thread! Like, wow! What an amazing coincidence!



You dont need a god, or a destiny, to be living life.
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Postby surfishlife » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:40 am

drowningbitbybit wrote:
isaluteyou wrote:Coincidence? I doubt it too many variables. remove but 1 of the aboe and the rest cease to exist




You dont need a god, or a destiny, to be living life.


I understand that point, and it's a good one, drowningbitbybit...the existentialist would have a field day agreeing with you that you could make what you will of your life and the implications of each and every action, therefore come to a most reasonably understood explanation that there is no single, absolute explanation.
On the flip side though, why isn't it (as isaluteyou had pointed out as well) that everyone in the world cannot be as brilliant surfers as kelly slater? if a person's fate is not preconceived, then the path by which they live would not be either...this points out there are some limitations to which we are naturally provided that guide us to what we do, is it not? including kelly slater...
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Postby FishKid Wales » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:06 am

I believe that some people are just born great:
Scumacher,pele,Einstein,lex :wink: ,slater the list goes on, and then coincedently their greatness is nurtured by the circumstances they are raised in.

Not sure if it makes sense to you's lot?
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Postby cj » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:08 am

I believe in God, and as far as what is meant to be and what is just chance... I think that there is a chance that it was all just meant to be.

Personally, I surf soley for the spiritual connection that I feel to God, the same reason I do everything.

I think that you can call God by whatever name you want, and picture God however you want, but the truth is, we live on a planet with Oceans to play in, Mountains and Trees to climb, and we are just smart enough to figure out how to make toys to help us play better. Amen.

And I think Jesus was the Messiah, and the first Hippie.

I spent almost the entire day, everyday stoned out of my mind reading the bible for over a year and a half, and it all made sense too me, Don't Judge, Love Thy Neighbor, Try to be like Jesus, and Jesus walked on water, see where I am going with this...

[img][img]https://surfing-waves.com/forum/images/up/1159182873_1.jpg[/img][/img]
Last edited by cj on Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Phil » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:17 am

FishKid Wales wrote:I believe that some people are just born great:
Scumacher,pele,Einstein,lex :wink: ,slater the list goes on, and then coincedently their greatness is nurtured by the circumstances they are raised in.

Not sure if it makes sense to you's lot?


i agree i think having surfing to put all his energy into as a way to deal with famly problems probably contributed to him being such a good surfer, but hes the type of person that would be good at any thing regardless.
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Postby hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:31 am

you guys are wondering about the connections of the wrong things. i always wonder that about evolution. there is no doubt in my mind that everything that goes on in everyones head is a product of chemical reactions. i had this discussion with my christian mother. i convinced her that there is obvious proof of this. there are such simple things like the fact that you can make lesions in parts of the brain to remove memories, alter their personality, etc. so then what would a soul have to do with anything? if you could turn a good, honest person into a raving lunatic by altering the anatomy of their brain, what does a soul have to do with anything? good and evil are just language. there is no such thing. just products of balanced or unbalanced chemical reactions.

but in my head the response is always about evolution. i hate the idea of destiny and i dont believe in it. i must have control of my own life otherwise whats the point. destiny is just used to give people false hope or place the blame somewhere else.

anyway, back to evolution. if chemical reactions, random occurences and mutations, natural selection and millions of years is all there really is, then why are we really here? whats the point of reproduction anyway? is our existence some sort of destiny in itself?

most important, why did some teenie girly girls thought of kelly slater set my off on this rant?

i seriously think the human brain is maladaptive. its too big. peoples brains become bored, lonely and depressed, then these brains tell their bodies to kill themselves. sometimes they tell them to kill each other, even though they are not competing for sex or food or shelter or anything.
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Postby GowerCharger » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:05 pm

kelly slater was genetically engineered by mad floridian surfer-scientists to get one up on the californians and hawaiians. thats the only explanation that makes any sense to me.
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Postby surfishlife » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:57 pm

hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf wrote:
but in my head the response is always about evolution. i hate the idea of destiny and i dont believe in it. i must have control of my own life otherwise whats the point. destiny is just used to give people false hope or place the blame somewhere else.

anyway, back to evolution. if chemical reactions, random occurences and mutations, natural selection and millions of years is all there really is, then why are we really here? whats the point of reproduction anyway? is our existence some sort of destiny in itself?


point taken. you've made a convincing argument that our actions are results of explainable, scientific processes that take place as natural as of any other animal living in its environment.

in the same vein, i feel like you answered your own question. there is no destiny in the human existence, or there was nothing destined about it. big bang theory, evolution...all happened because of things coming together in the right place, at the right time--- it just took a billion years for it ( i mean the universe) to happen. certainly, the environment and the creation of human kind and global society plays a large part in how we decide to live our lives, whether it be chasing after that 500K business deal or surfing every single day.

"hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf wrote: most important, why did some teenie girly girls thought of kelly slater set my off on this rant?


hm. i am not sure, but i feel like you judged my question as a direct judgment of me as a person. i actually am not "some teenie girly girl", i am a university educated young adult who i can openly say may not be the most intelligent, but was bringing up my original thoughts in hopes of better understanding if not exploring and appreciating the human experience. kelly slater happens to be one of many instances in life that make me realize and contemplate that. [/quote]
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Postby hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:40 am

did you major in philosophy?
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Postby surfishlife » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:25 am

no, i didn't major in philosophy, but it is a side hobby.
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Postby hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:33 am

in my phil. 101 class we had to read the republic. it was almost painful. ever since that ive had no interest in the books, courses, etc.
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Postby surfishlife » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:42 am

the republic-- i never read it, but i feel like for some reason it is similar to "The Prince" (Machiavelli). Forgive me if i'm totally wrong.

anyway, yea, some of the philosophy stuff can be pretty dry, but with patience can be pretty interesting depending on the reader, not just for their thoughts but even merely as a general examination of human behavior.

what did u major in?
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Postby hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:51 am

surfishlife wrote: a general examination of human behavior.

what did u major in?


weird. psychology, im a senior. you?

the prince was a little more entertaining than the republic. but not much.
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Postby Driftingalong » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:43 pm

What about the possiblitly that everyone is born with the potential for greatness. Some find the one thing early in life that allows them to reach a high level of greatness. Some don't find it until later in life and reach some level of greatness. And some never find it at all...
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Postby surfishlife » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:05 pm

hawaiiSUCKSexceptsurf wrote:
surfishlife wrote: a general examination of human behavior.

what did u major in?


weird. psychology, im a senior. you?

the prince was a little more entertaining than the republic. but not much.


i was an economics major, graduated 2 years ago dude. but always felt psychology was my true calling. oh well, things are working out just fine as they are.
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Postby surfishlife » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:07 pm

Driftingalong wrote:What about the possiblitly that everyone is born with the potential for greatness. Some find the one thing early in life that allows them to reach a high level of greatness. Some don't find it until later in life and reach some level of greatness. And some never find it at all...



That is a very convincing explanation. Finding it versus not finding it then, wouldn't be a matter of chance-- well, i correct myself. It is a combination of chance and the right opportunitiy, which is held at the control of that very same person.
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Postby cj » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:51 pm

This is what I believe:

God is real.

Jesus was the Messiah.

The Bible is 100% Truth.

Buddah, Allah, and whatever else is all right about everything too.

Everyone is right, I just point out the bible beceause I spent about 3,500 hours stoned out of my mind reading it over the course of a year and a half.

This is honestly, what I believe.

But Bro, about the evolution thing, I think you are right about that too. It makes sense doesn't it. I had the same exact idea about chemical reactions, and what not when I was like 7.

Then I went on to start thinking about, well everything is made up of atoms and atoms are just electrons and protons spinning around a nucleus.

Then I started thinking, well Atoms are just something that is made up of energy, raw energy arranged in different ways.

Then I started thinking, well, what about the stuff that isn't made up of atoms, or even electrons and whatever, like TIME itself. I mean time obviously exist, we can measure it, so it has to exist right.

So then I started thinking, well Time is vacuum, with lots of energy trapped in it, being pulled in infinate directions all at the same time, etc. etc. etc. It all agrees with everything in science, and every theory that science has had regarding evolution, and the beginning of the universe, etc.

But then I started smoking a lot of weed, and spending a lot of time reading the bible, and WOW.... The first couple chapters were like, wow, this is all about science, then it was like no, no, this is all about everything.

Let me explain...

The first line in the Bible is: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. bla bla bla... then it describes an evolution of the earth.

Well if everything just happened by chance, etc. Cool, it still agrees with the fact that God is real. If you take an astronaut and throw him in space and tell him to describe earth, he isn't going to talk about all the people that he sees, he is going to talk about a big blue ball with land masses on it, same thing, step back and take a look at the big picture.

If you took the entire universe and put it in the palm of your hand, there would still be you and everthing else that you are in outside of the universe, so what else is out there is the big question.

The answer: Who Knows? Who Cares?

The point is if could step back, and look at, everything. I mean physical things, things that we can't see under a microscope even, like Time itself and emotion, etc. IF you could step back and see ALL of it, you would see what GOD looks like, the sum of all parts, or just any part of the sum.

There is a latin word I love, ad quem, it means the goal or extremity to which something tends. So if you are born, than your ad quem is death, kind of like saying the natural order of how things end up.

The truth is, as far as science goes, we know one thing for sure, you can not destroy energy, but only change it's form (and we are just energy), so even if we die and our atoms get scattered all over, they aren't gone, they are just not assembled in the same order as they are right now.

The Bible says, God made man from dust... Well, we ARE carbon based, as all living things are, and if you have ever seen carbon in a solid state, you know, it is the dustiest dust that there is.

So, I think that everyone is looking at the same thing trying to describe it 6 billion different ways, every time someone is born, there is a new way to describe what our existance really is, and everyone is right, it's just a shame that we are so quick to cut down other peoples opinions on the subject because they don't SOUND like what we are trying to say to the world.

So was Jesus the son of God, Yes, so am I and you and everyone else. Was he the only true son of God, yea, he was the only one that agreed with everyone, he just called them hipocrats, he was the first hippie with a cause. Do I think that he rose from the dead, well, the majority of the earth worships him and calls HIM god, over 2,000 years after his death, I would say he did a better job of rising from the dead than Elvis, so far. Especially if the physical world is only part of the greater picture.

And do I think Jesus's mom was a virgin, yes I do, my mom is too, you better not say otherwise.

Do I believe in divine intervention, hell yea, everytime I do anything I like to think it happened and therefore it is part of the greater scheme (even if the greater sceme is the evolution of evolution).

Are the muslims right about getting seventy virgins when they die, well, if they decompose, become raw energy again, and the particles that were them bind with other particles that weren't part of them when they were alive, I am sure at one point, they will be attached to seventy New particles, and therefore seventy pure forms of energy that they sexually bind to (sexually like how molecules have sex, when electrons and protons jump from atom to atom to form new atoms) so yea, since the energy is pure it is virgin, yea why not. or maybe there are seventy playboy chicks just waiting for you, that would be a better scenerio, or maybe it feels better to just be pure energy again.

So what I am saying is, I think your right bro, pass the doobie.
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Postby surfishlife » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:27 pm

i feel like i have a lot to learn to learn from you cj. that was a brilliant post~

i am curious about the time concept- forgive my ignorance, but i thought time was only a human construct, only the sum of our actions, a measure? could you explain ?einstein and the whole relativity thing--i could never really conceptualize.
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