Fish has too much volume to sit on?

[surf917]

After trying an 8 foot surfboard for a few months, I wanted to get my own that I can easily store and transport (condo and a sedan) so I ended up getting a 6 foot softtop fish with 40 liter volume. (https://www.southbayboardco.com/product ... 0507578456).

I can really paddle well with this and I love how I can nose dive with this board. It's SUPER light and I haven't had the chance to attempt a wave with it yet since I have injured ribs (over did my muscles so trying not to make it worse).

I did try and sit on the board but I can't stay on top of it (but I do know it is more difficult being a shorter board) and tend to tip over. It is my first time trying a shorter board and for the most part I've been trying to sit on it like this:


Every time I did this I would have to hug the board with my legs and eventually flip sideways after a couple of seconds.

I know it's supposed to be more like this:


I remember trying to attempt the second position a couple of times but I REALLY struggled to get it to sink like that and often I would nosedip and flip forward.

However, I see surfers do the first position just fine:

If I were to try that my board tries to shoot up and forward and won't want to stay sinking like shown in the pic above...

I'm going to try doing this again tomorrow with that second position, but I think the board is way too buoyant to even stay down. The board is extremely light being foam softtop and super buoyant at 40 L. Do you guys think the board is causing the issue? Will have to try and rent a hardshell shortboard with less volume if I can find a store that does...

*edit I'm 5'10 and 185 lbs.

[jaffa1949]

It is totally wrong for you skill, weight and you should be still surfing a longer board more around 9ft, if you could surf well on an eight foot board and you can’t even paddle or sit on what you are showing us , it is all wrong.
So let’s start with the right questions for you.
What could you do on your longer board?
If you are thinking about storage or in your cars you have the wrong priorities.
How well can i paddle on this board? Well enough to consistently catch wave in a zone where I can pop up! If no wrong board!
Can i ride and turn backhand and forehand on a wave? If no, I need to develop my skills on a longer board!

Talk to us a little more we will get you out of the swimming pool!
The fish does not have too much volume to sit on!
Longer board , longer board , longer board1

[surf917]

Yes I know it is normal to start on a longer board. The board itself is fine for me but it is a softtop fish rather than a fiberglass one and does have a significant amount of volume and low weight for its size. The question is not whether if this is a better board to practice, but is the unusually softtop, high volume, low weight for the 6 ft dimension causing issues for a 5'10'' 185 lb dude to sit on this board properly? Or would someone with more skill with my body dimension be able to sit on this board?

I was hoping with the details and pictures given on what exactly is wrong with the current board would make sense for some or perhaps I just need to give it more time. My goal is to be able to sit on the board as everything else feels fine.

I'm still waiting on renting out a fiberglass tomorrow but would love some insight on this, rather than focusing on moving onto a long board. I can't own a long board currently and renting one constantly is something I'd rather not do since I go out almost every other day.

I would love some insight with the pictures and details I've mentioned too. Please do share!

[oldmansurfer]

Don't worry. You'll get used to it with time and practice

[surf917]

I'll keep you guys updated. If anyone have any input, would love to hear!

Btw, rereading your post Jaffa that isn't me in the pictures! It's from youtube xD He has a good board and my board doesn't sink as well as his does (given his board if I remember correctly has half the volume as mine and is probably a bit heavier).

[jaffa1949]

you still don’t discuss what your surfing ability is, what you can and cannot do in the surf, and that more than anything else determines what you should be riding

[surf917]

you still don’t discuss what your surfing ability is, what you can and cannot do in the surf, and that more than anything else determines what you should be riding

Again, I appreciate your help but the question is more regarding the board's capabilities rather than what board a rider should be getting.

Would appreciate anyone who can note the buoyancy, weight, size, and even material factors when it comes to being able to sit on a board properly for a person of my size.

Here is an overview of the materials used. Maybe it may help on deciding whether it is more buoyant than other 40 liter boards?


Seems like noone has much insight on this topic, been searching everywhere online. Videos clearly show how the board should be sinking though when sitting on short boards!

Maybe this is the wrong section of the forum?

[oldmansurfer]

That is because you can learn to sit on any board. It's not the boards fault it's your fault that you can't sit on it. Learn to sit on it is the solution

[waikikikichan]

Every time I did this I would have to hug the board with my legs and eventually flip sideways after a couple of seconds.

WRONG. Let your feet just dangle. Once you try to hold on with your legs, you'll begin to rock the boat.

Again, I appreciate your help but the question is more regarding the board's capabilities rather than what board a rider should be getting.

Would appreciate anyone who can note the buoyancy, weight, size, and even material factors when it comes to being able to sit on a board properly for a person of my size.

WRONG again. So what you are saying it must be the arrow's fault and not the Indian's ? It is correct to ask your level of surfing BECAUSE as you go up in technique you develop more and more CORE MUSCLE, which is necessary to sit on a board comfortably and stably.

Seems like none has much insight on this topic, been searching everywhere online. Videos clearly show how the board should be sinking though when sitting on short boards! Maybe this is the wrong section of the forum?

You could keep asking on other surf forums around the internet, but the answer is still going to be the same. But here we tell it to you straight and honestly.

I always say " A good surfer can SURF any board ", but in this case I amend that to " A good surfer can SIT on any board ".

[jaffa1949]

Put any board on the beach, you can immediately see their lack of capability, not one of them can do anything except float without a rider!
You are asking a question which does not give you any surfing knowledge or capability !
Hard call but realistically you are arguing for your limitations and sadly it is not going to work!

[surf917]

Thanks for the feedback and if I'm not mistaken, just wanted to be clear that I am not stating one is wrong, but definitely a bit confused why the responses are assuming I'm thinking the user isn't important or not? I never stated the user isn't important and i was trying to keep the focus on the technical reasoning on why the board "possibly" could be the problem.
For example, Jaffa didn't address the detailed factors I have brought up and simply stated it's the user's problem indefinitely, hence my request.

oldmansurfer thank you for your input.

waikikikichan, your input has been most constructive and I appreciate the insights, but again, I think you misread my intentions and what I am doing. Although I am requesting people to see the board being a possible culprit, I never stated the user isn't a possible culprit, but simply asked if we could shift the focus on the board rather than just the user (since it can be the board despite how low of a chance one may feel).

Of course, I'm going to assume it is me, as stated also, and going to try today to improve on it. But it would suck to find out the board is making it more difficult than it has to be and I just need one with a bit more weight possibly? Again, not saying this is true haha. Trying out a different board would be the easiest way to go but the shop nearby only has a 5'5'' to rent that's near my current board's size.

Nevertheless, thanks for the input guys. Constructive input helps! Just hoping for my factors to be addressed rather than simply I'm wrong and that's that! Hope you understand. Thanks again.

[krustyburger]

Like everything else in surfing, learning to sit on a board takes practice... waves and wind will make it harder in the ocean than in a pool of course.

Whether the nose is sticking out a little, both nose and tail are fully underwater, or tail and fins are sticking out of the water isn't terribly important. As you develop your balance on the board you will probably be shifting between these board / body positions and you will also need to use your hands for stability. This is OK. Eventually you will figure this out and it will feel natural and more comfortable.

What is important is that you can go from sitting position (facing the waves/ horizon) to quickly swinging the board around towards the beach and into an efficient prone paddling position as a wave approaches.

[jaffa1949]

Ah surf917 I am not even shooting at you really, volume has only recently become a topic i board selection.
So here it is EPS boards are more floaty than PU foam boards of the same volume, you could say more corky per volume.
as Waikikichan points out where you wrap your legs around the board you raise your centre of gravity out of the water will naturally topple sideways with the slightest lean.

At your weight you should have your boat floated.

A question that legitimate is how much have you surfed? Because methinks that apart from you thinking in the box not out of it in regard to length and your car apartment etc.
The answers for you are in the surf and what works for you there!

This is about how I view board volume and my intended usage,
left to,right. Yellow longboard 9ft ocean surf only of any size I am capable of handling, White Kneeboard, I have had cancer and need a knee replacement as popping up,is difficult. Wooden cover EPS Sunova adaptable board can either knee it or stand it last two boards.ocean boards, last board Mick Fanning Soft board 5‘8‘‘ river surfing only because I am likely to be smacking into concrete walls.
Finally a SUP ocean or lake assignment

I weigh 100 kilos, I am 71 and rebuilding my surfing capabilities so I suit the boards to my recovery.
The first two boards are PU foam , the rest EPS and epoxy glass and layers the bigger boards have much more volume than your board, each was hand picked for what does in the surf for me, the newest the Mick Fanning, is helping me understand and surf standing on a river wave as i can take off already standing and don‘t have try to pop up,with dickyknees.

[oldmansurfer]

Sitting on a board is one of many skills and some boards are much easier to sit on. However once you figure out how to do it it will be easy. Longboard tend to be easier because they float well and are wide and long and stable in the water. Many short low volume boards are easy because they sink. It's the shorter high volume boards that are more difficult because they want to rise out from under your weight. You could call them corky. Once you get used to them however it becomes just as easy as sitting on any other board. I went from surfing a 9'6" board to a high volume 8 foot board. I had much trouble sitting on it even just laying down on it was much more difficult than the 9'6" board. But I figured out where to sit to be stable and now it's my favorite.

[surf917]

Wow thanks guys for the detailed input! I'll respond with what I've learned in the water today, just got back and in the restroom browsing on my phone haha. Gotta clean up after a morning session.

[surf917]

Ah surf917 I am not even shooting at you really, volume has only recen...

Hi Jaffa, I wasn't aware that EPS boards are more floaty that's real interesting! And definitely, I wasn't trying to wrap my legs around the board but just an idea of how much I was struggling with it.

I have been surfing every other day for almost 3 months now on an 8 foot foam board. I had no issue sitting on that one and it helped that I had that extra length on the tail side as I was sitting on the back center of the board, so I would sit on it with the nose sticking out on a slant just fine, and I had no issue turning while sitting using my legs (clockwise/counterclockwise motions) and eventually it got so easy I would just sit on it leaning backwards and sometimes just sway while sitting side to side when I'm bored.

I honestly prefer the convenience of getting in and out of the beach rather than catching more waves. I definitely agree that catching more waves will make me a better surfer but it's more recreational for me and I don't mind missing a lot of waves. I do hate lugging the long board past the waves (and often turtle rolling) and prefer nose diving to get back in the lineup.

I REALLY love the versatility of the shorter boards and how easy it was for me to move around with it in the water. It is sort of a deal break for me whether the board can easily be placed in my car, moved through my elevator, and easily carried into my condo. I live 15 minute drive away from the beach so I really want to own my own board and head out just before the sun comes up.

Also, I'm sorry you had to go through such challenging health problems; had a family member who had a very early stage of cancer and it's never easy. But for you to overcome it and still surf is amazing man! Haha, Im new to surfing but I'm out there right now paddling with one arm since I injured myself a bit recently, but love being in the water so much. I guess it helps I'm new to the coast so it's something new for me.

Like everything else in surfing, learning to sit on a bo...

I REALLY love how easy it was to turn on the shorter board compared to a long board. It's so much more versatile. It's why I was trying to transition to a high volume fish board so I can still attempt smaller waves while gaining those benefits.

Sitting on a board is one of many...

That is what I was presuming. I really want to try a lower volume fish and see if I can sit on it while the board is underwater. Going to have to look around to rent one.


As for what I learned, I've noticed if the board was a bit longer, I probably would have had no issue sitting on this board like I did with my long board. The board I have is simply in the middle where it's not long enough for me to to sit on it like a long board and not small enough for it to sink when I sit on the dead center.

I've attempted to sit on the dead center this session a lot more and it was fine for a bit as the board was sinking maybe a few inches below surface but since the board was so buoyant, I would easily get pushed off position and the board will tend to either nosedive in a way or push me back sideways. It felt like I was riding a mechanical bull practically which was a bit extreme and I don't think I'll be able to tame this one xD.

One thing I did learn is that by arching my back and focusing that arch near the hips/lowerback, I would be able to stay sitting with the nose sticking out in front. But again, since the board was a bit shorter than I needed, the board will slowly slip forward and shoot upward with the buoyancy (looked like a dolphin at this point).

I'm going to try and find a smaller volume board to rent as the other route would be to go for a longer board. Would definitely like to see what it's like sitting with the board deeper under the surface. And yes, I know this would mean it'll be very hard for me to catch waves. Hopefully a good fish would make it less difficult.

Other than looking like a complete kook today paddling with one arm and looking like I'm trying to ride a dolphin constantly falling off my board, the SouthBay Co. soft tops are amazing quality. They used to sell the Mahi in 5'8'' but decided to make them 6'. Wish I could try their smaller version since I love this board so much. Paddles really really well and super light but durable. The gripped foam is super convenient too not needing to wax it. Looks sexy too.

Thanks again guys for the inputs and loving this forum already. I got started with a coworker that surfed (who secretely seemed to dislike me so I don't ask him for advice anymore haha) and is much more enjoyable than playing pickup basketball for me (not that basketball is bad).

[waikikikichan]

and I haven't had the chance to attempt a wave with it yet since I have injured ribs (over did my muscles so trying not to make it worse).

All things aside, this also might be a factor too. You're not able to fully relax with your ribs tensing up a bit.

simply asked if we could shift the focus on the board rather than just the user (since it can be the board despite how low of a chance one may feel).

Okay as you wish. So let's get a 6 boards all the same Length X Width x Thickness ( rocker, rail, tail, etc. )
1) Poly/PU
2) EPS/Epoxy
3) Molded-epoxy / Pop out
4) Chambered Balsa
5) Hollow Carbon Fiber
6) Sponge soft board.

I am thinking of them all the Sponge Soft board will be easiest to sit on and the Hollow Carbon Fiber the hardest to sit on.

I agree with what you're thinking about a short but high volume board might be harder to sit on. Kind of like trying to sit on a Igloo cooler in a pool. But all this thinking / pondering will go away when you learn to:
1) not hug the board with your legs and just dangle them
2) find the sweet spot / balance point ( any board all board have a different balance point )
3) relax ( and be like water )
4) look up and out
5) build up your Core Muscle

If you hand your board to others in the line up ( or your friend from work ) and have them try to sit on it and they all do with no problem, would you still feel that trying out a hard P/P board might fix things ?

[waikikikichan]

Relax and Dangle your feet.

[oldmansurfer]

All of the boards I currently use are midlength high volume boards from 7' to 8'. It's all pluses and minuses so you have to look at where they fall for you, your board and the waves you are riding. It's a shame that so many people want to avoid learning in order to not look like a kook. We were all kooks at one point.

[surf917]

Screenshot 2020-08-11 at 6.02.22 AM.png

Relax and Dangle your feet.

That's a nice picture thanks! My board doesn't get near that deep when I'm sitting on center so it ends up going nuts after a couple of seconds xD.

And thanks for the material info. Yea would be nice to try out other people's boards but people are reserved for the most part where I surf.

All of the boards I currentl...

Oh you got me all wrong if you're talking about me. I'm the only one with booties and a hoodie out there since I'm out doing 4 hour sessions and helps with sunburn. Thinking about wearing a helmet too (almost got hurt since someone caught a wave, came right at me at the shore and decided to kick her board at me as she landed) but mainly since I want to attach a go pro for whenever dolphins join again or some sea lions xD. It's all about functionality for me my friend. Everyone has their preferences and priorities and for me it's to be able to easily get in and out of the beach enjoying the water and workout while learning how to surf, slow progress or not. It would be awful to not be able to sit on my board though haha!