How to get better in crowds?

[holdmeup]

I'm a first-light surfer, meaning, right now, I'm in the water by around 5:15 am and for the next hour or so, it's all good, just me and a few others trading waves. And I'm not bad (according to those around me, who are in fact much more advanced). And I'm getting better. Had a hang up with waves over 3' for a while but after taking the advice on the Confidence thread over on the Longboarder's forum, I've managed to up my comfort level by quite a bit.

But by around 6:30, when the first groups of others arrive, my wave count and skill level just drops into the toilet. And the more crowded it gets, the worse I get. I don't flub waves. I just don't catch any. And it's not as if all these more recent arrivals are any better than me. A few are, but most are my equals or less-thans. And yet I consistently perform beneath what I figure should be my go-to level, not even my potential, to the degree that more than a few of my fellow early risers have commented on my declines.

It's weird. And I"m not sure what to do about it. Thoughts anyone?

[oldmansurfer]

You're out of shape and after paddling for a while you arms are too weak

[dtc]

Are you not catching waves that you are going for on your own, or are you competing with the waves eg pulling off to let someone else get them, being hassled out of the way?

In other words, is it like old man says and you are now just tired (or perhaps tensing up because of the people watching/you being less relaxed around them) and so its a physical problem; or is it 'crowd management' and you arent getting your share of waves because you arent used to/able to grab your opportunities due to the crowd?

Guess one way to find out is to go later one morning, so you turn up when the crowds are turning up, and seeing whether you are able to catch your waves when you are fresh.

[delphin]

It helps to surf with a friend too.

[waikikikichan]

It will help to know which you feel is worse:
1) hurting someone with your surfboard
2) being hurt by someone else’s surfboard

[holdmeup]

well, after an hour, i am a wee bit tired but it'd be obvious to me if that was the major part of the issue. plus, i've started out when it's more crowded and the problem starts right then. so i really do think it's a crowd management ordeal, with me tightening up as the number of people in the water grows.

it'd feel worse to hurt someone else w/ my board than it would to get hit by someone else's board.

but, yeah, i'm being hassled out of the way or, more to the point, allowing myself to be hassled out of the way.

so, given this, or even just assuming this, do ya'll have some crowd management strategies you could offer? i mean, i'm more than happy to throw myself into the thick of it and try anything you suggest. maybe i should shadow one of the alphas for a bit and just observe.

one thing i do know is that he/she who starts paddling first, no matter priority, will often cause others to back off. i've done that with a fair amount of success. and, yes, i do pull back if someone begins to go who has better rights to the wave.

[waikikikichan]

t'd feel worse to hurt someone else w/ my board than it would to get hit by someone else's board. but, yeah, i'm being hassled out of the way or, more to the point, allowing myself to be hassled out of the way.

Then you are hesitating. You're being paralyzed by fear ( or maybe Paralysis by Analysis ) You are not confident in your own skills to avoid hitting others or to kick out / pull out when someone gets in your way or blocks your path. Work on your kick outs and being able to fully control your board back down. Learn the wave so you can predict / foresee bad situations before they happen. It's good you are giving up priority to those that deserves it and observing proper wave etiquette, BUT ..... sooner or later you got to go for it.

How strong is your paddle and what is your rate of hit/miss on catching 10 waves ? 50/50 ? 75/25 ?

[dtc]

If you sit off the peak (take off zone), no one will give you a wave. Old guys on longboards or young kids or other beginners, if they have priority they will take it without a second thought, even if they are generally polite relaxed people. So you need to put yourself on the peak, in the pack. Once that happens, and you have the confidence to paddle for the waves - and not paddle and pull out or hesitate - then you should get your fair share of waves. Most people will acknowledge priority and let you have it once they know you are going to commit to the wave.

Of course, some people are @@#$@$#@#. They drop in, or they paddle for a wave just inside you (so you have priority) to see what you will do and if you pull out, they will just go for the wave every time. Others might just paddle back to a priority position all the time (sometimes perhaps without really thinking about it, they just go and sit with their mates - but they will take full advantage of that position). If this constantly happens, just paddle around them

It can be hard when people are sitting further inside of you, blocking you (intentionally or, more likely, just not thinking about it), that you think you might run over or something. But most of the time you will be past them by the time you actually catch the wave so its generally not actually a risk - but its still better to be safe than sorry. Sometimes you have to paddle a bit sideways as the wave comes to get a clear passage or just pull off the wave as waikikichan says.

Sounds like your break isnt too bad - sit at the peak, get priority, start paddling. You have just as much right to try to catch the wave as anyone else; even if you fall off you havent 'wasted' the wave, if its 'your' wave then you have the righ to do what you want with it.

But it can be hard, especially early on in your 'career'; its a skill that you pick up over time as you get more used to the group, to how surf packs work, as you learn to identify the different types of surfers and who will be polite and who will take every wave possible

[krustyburger]

Just to adding to the general good advice on this thread... and as a developing surfer that can relate to your frustration with crowds...

While I do agree that learning surf pack dynamics is a pivotal skill, there can also be a big trade-off in terms of the development of other surf skills if you are just floating in a lineup without being able to catch many waves. Maybe this is a sign that you need to explore other spots away from the crowd. Or perhaps there is a wave that breaks cleanly further on the inside that no one wants that is a better investment of your time. I too have spent too much time with the “pack” at a spot that feels comfortable. Just because everyone is out at a spot doesn’t mean that is the best place to catch a wave. Most people are just following the crowd, sitting on the outside, afraid to get cleaned-up.

When I look at a break, I count how many quality waves go unridden. If every quality wave has someone or multiple people on it and you don’t see any unridden waves coming through, then you have to wonder if its even worth going out at that spot/ time. At most spots, it’s a small group of about 20% of total surfers in the water are catching maybe 80% of the waves. The rest of us (me included on many occasions) are often just adding to the crowd. The goal is to be in that 20% that is getting the high wave count, even if it means owning the reform knee-slappers peeling on the inside instead of going for the set-wave bombs that everyone is sitting on the outside waiting for.

[holdmeup]

ram: you're absolutely right about a good bit of fear hampering my success. fear and, quite simply, i'm more easily intimidated because of it. as to wave-catching count, during my first hour out, when i've got no one in my way, i'm about an 8 out of 10. but once the line up starts to thicken, i drop to maybe 2 or three out of ten. i do want to take back a bit what i said earlier about not being tired. today, after 1hr-15 min in the water, i do think fatigue contributed to my inability to catch waves. and then when i'd miss one or two, i'd get frustrated, which only led me to missing more.

building on some of the comments here, i did line up next to one of the alpha cats a few times this morning and two times he backed off when he saw i had priority and wasn't going to stop. both times i took the drop late, and made the wave, which is a good thing, i suppose, in terms of future dealings with at least this particular guy.

i understand about searching out less populated breaks but it ain't bad having a place with just a few others for the first hour of the day. i could paddle down the coast a bit but then the waves are beach-break close outs instead of fairly nicely peeling reef waves.

[waikikikichan]

but once the line up starts to thicken, i drop to maybe 2 or three out of ten. i do want to take back a bit what i said earlier about not being tired. today, after 1hr-15 min in the water, i do think fatigue contributed to my inability to catch waves. and then when i'd miss one or two, i'd get frustrated, which only led me to missing more.

Not only body fatigue, but ALSO MIND FATIGUE. After awhile we start to lose our perception of what's happening and our wave selection thought process goes down. When it's less crowded you got your "pick of the litter", but later on you get served only "scraps". And when we go for a "wrong" wave and it dumps and leaves you in the pit, then you waste more energy trying to get back and end up even more fatigue.

But I think you need to ask yourself: " Would you rather be frustrated dealing with the crowd, surfing just a few waves or stuck behind your desk at work with your boss breathing down your neck ? New perspective will do wonders.

[holdmeup]

the more i think about it and reflect -- yes, mind fatigue, i can see that's also happening. toward the end of a session, it can take me 30 minutes to get a last wave in, as i paddle inside then out then find myself spacing out in a fog, etc etc.

one thing i just remembered is how much better i do when i'm moving around more at the break, paddling with purpose toward peaks as i see them rise up, instead of waiting and hoping they somehow find me as i bob around aimlessly. then again, i see a good number of the better guys/gals always ending up in the right spot just like they're wave magnets. it's kind of an interesting mystery.

the other problem with packs is when they all know each other and are calling each other into waves left and right with no regard to lil ol' me patiently waiting. otoh, it's all great when, on the rare occasion, i'm the one getting called in. pack dynamics. another interesting mystery to ponder.

[BoMan]

Something else to try.

Where I surf there are significant lulls between sets and sometimes people are willing to talk. I usually start by complimenting a recent ride or a new board and then go with the flow. Having a friend or two in the lineup contributes to the "give one get one" vibe and eventually much more!

[holdmeup]

i'm friendly, as you suggest, most of the time, except when i've got to put on my (bogus) killer look to ward off encroachers (rarely works. never, actually).

it's interesting to me that no one has really written about life in the line up and how to get more of what you want w/out being a jerk about it. tons of stuff about good manners, etc., but nothing along the lines of, say, pushing the boundaries, and how to fake others out, if indeed such methods exist. There's all kinds of tricky stuff you can do in tennis, for example, to psych an opponent out. i know other surfers aren't opponents in the same sense; at the same time, yeah, they are.

[jaffa1949]

Nah we keep,our stealth line up,tactics to ourselves, beyond an great caring, sharing line up , we have to use the secret tactics for our own missions.

BTW. being over 70. doesn‘t cut me any slack!

[holdmeup]

dang you!

meanwhile, i did find this bit of writing about getting more in crowds and it's pretty good, tho i didn't find anything such as boggles the mind and teaches even J something new.

https://isurfnetwork.com/catching-waves ... main-peak/

[holdmeup]

just to add a little bit here so i don't lose it, about how to handle wipeouts in bigger waves. there've been times when i've gotten smashed, after which fear of getting smashed again makes it so i sit too far outside to catch anything anyways. here's advice i found on the 'net somewhere that seems sensible:

xxxxx

1. Close your eyes and count to 5. Counting calibrates your sense of time that is lost when you’re in the washing machine. This is probably the easiest and most effective way to calm yourself when the whole ocean is on top of you. You begin to learn that it is never as long as it seems. Count as you wait for the wave’s energy to flow past you before gently coming up for air. If you come up and start taking short, erratic breaths, force yourself to breathe through your nose. It will help you relax and you will catch your breath back faster.

2. Have fun. Easier than it sounds. Pretend you’re on an underwater rollercoaster, or pull karate kick poses as you fly through the water. A happy state of mind is a calm one and you’ll come to the surface with air to spare.

3. Practice on small waves. When you fall on small waves, extend your time underwater on purpose. You’ll be better prepared for the real thing.

xxxxxx

of course, this doesn't deal w/ coming up after a wipeout only to find yourself facing wave after crashing wave, with but a second to grab some air, while another surfer is bearing down from above. all part of the game, i guess, and the fun.

[waikikikichan]

i did find this bit of writing about getting more in crowds and it's pretty good, tho i didn't find anything such as boggles the mind and teaches even J something new.

https://isurfnetwork.com/catching-waves ... main-peak/

In the diagram, if someone sets up deeper (zone 3) to try and snake my position, I use the kooks set up inside (zone2) to "block" that deep guy. I drive close down and shoot across their right shoulder sending them unconsciously straighter. That in turn runs them right into the path of the snaking deeper guy.

[ConcreteVitamin]

dang you!

meanwhile, i did find this bit of writing about getting more in crowds and it's pretty good, tho i didn't find anything such as boggles the mind and teaches even J something new.

https://isurfnetwork.com/catching-waves ... main-peak/

Wow, this blog is amazing.

[jaffa1949]

River wave line up literally. and the most democratIc surf session around, one person per wave unless they invite you, they surf until they wipe outband wash down stream , next surfer jumps in, if you can ride well enough you get a longer ride, if you ride too long the line up bang there boards, pull over or slide to the side and step off. Everyone watches for river hazards an floating logs. etc. and your safe paddle back to the bank and the end of the queue.

The line up!

A natural river wave wipeout, ride time on to off 30 seconds