Upgrade from foamie for challenging breaks in San Francisco

[alex_k]

Hello, I surf in the San Francisco area and am looking to upgrade from a wavestorm. I can comfortably trim down the line in waist to chest high conditions at easy breaks, and have recently done mellow bottom turns, but am not doing any fancy advanced moves. I am 5'10", 32, 150 lbs, average fitness, surf 1-3x / week.

I am now trying to surf one challenging reef break. It is frequently chest high plus, drops can be steep and waves are heavy, but speed is needed to make it through the sections. When I get up on the foamie there, I sometimes end up chattering down the face. The rails and fins don't ever feel like they are in contact with the wave and this ends in a big wipeout in the trough. I have gotten fantastic waves there, but my miss rate is high. This convinced me it is time to upgrade.

What boards would you recommend? I want the board that will help me get up on the most waves possible, make drops and get down the line fast. Subtle arguments about carving are beyond my skill level, but I would like something that will be good to surf indefinitely in appropriate conditions. (Later I will get something shorter once skills are there.) Maybe a shorter longboard is the right choice?

I surfed a Las Olas Chuleta, 8'2" x 22" × 3" / 57.1L https://awayco.com/product/4079/1, at ocean beach on a waist-high day and it handled extremely well once up. It felt a bit unstable while paddling and I had to sit farther back to keep from pearling, perhaps because the nose is somewhat narrow for its overall size, and this seemed to make it a little trickier to catch waves. It is a single fin and I'm not yet experienced enough to really understand what that does.

A friend loaned me a Firewire Special T longboard, 8'6" x 22 1/2" x 2 7/8" / 64.1L, at the reef break. It was super fast when I was up, but I felt like I was floating on top of the water at times, and could not carve as easily as the chuleta. He bought this board specifically for the reef break, and surfs it as I want to surf there. He is five inches taller and a good bit heavier than I am. I also surfed his 7ft, 46L fish there on a head-high day, and did not feel ready for it. I was missing waves all over.

People have recommended many things -- Firewire Special T at 8', Greedy Beaver at 6'8" (probably smaller than I want for now), Channel Islands Water Hog 8', custom made Haut, etc and it is difficult to sort through all the information. Please let me know your thoughts!

Thank you,
Alex

[surferbee]

What's the break you're surfing? If you're looking for something that will specifically handle that break, I may have some ideas for you depending on where you're surfing.

[surf patrol]

MB!

Thank you,

[surferbee]

To be honest, I've never really hit MB when it was working, so unfortunately I can't help you there. But in general, it sounds like you're still a relative beginner, yeah? Are you able to generate speed or are you just pointing and shooting? The board and fin setup can help with speed but you also have to be able to control your speed to make sections.

On the foamie (or most wide-nosed, flat-rockered boards, really), if the waves are steep, you'll need to get in early and/or angle your drop. Some of that may depend on your paddle strength and technique. Some will depend on the wave. Some will depend on the board and the fin setup.

Ultimately, nothing is going to feel as stable or get in as early as your foamie, except a bigger longboard. That's why so many people start out on foamies. A better board may allow you to improve your surfing over time, but undoubtedly you'll have to make adjustments along the way.

It's fine to upgrade from the foamie, but don't expect that to solve all of your issues. With that said, the Greedy Beaver is probably not the right choice for you. Look for something a little more user friendly and versatile like the Addvance (if you're looking at Firewire), or a Mctavish Carver, or something similar - a little more tucked in on the nose with a bit of rocker to help keep you from pearling. Keep trying out boards in a variety of conditions. Don't expect to fully know any one board in a single session. And consider buying used boards and re-selling them if they don't work for you. It's a good way to to get a feel for what you want and experiment with shapes without feeling like you're making a lifelong commitment to a board that may or may not work for you.

[waikikikichan]

I sometimes end up chattering down the face. The rails and fins don't ever feel like they are in contact with the wave...

So I think you’re surmising that it’s the (inferior?) wavestorms fault, and that you should spend money to “fix” the problem. It’ll be like customer asking a salesperson which arrow flies straight or what bat is good for homeruns. The reason why you’re chattering and feel the fins aren’t engaged is because THEY ARE NOT IN THE WATER. You are probably too far up in the middle of the board. You need to have you back foot over the fin(s) to have them engage. So even if you get a new cool wiz-bang board, it won’t matter because you don’t not have the proper technique yet. If people can surf a wavestorm/catch surf sponge board with rubber fins at over head Pipeline and make the drop, it’s not the boards fault why you’re chattering. ( and actually the flex of a wavestorm is a good thing at your level, a harder board is less forgiving and less room for errors and might buck you off while a sponge board might not )

[alex_k]

Surferbee -- If I said I am able to generate speed I'd be exaggerating. I can try to turn up the face to make more use of the wave, but the awkwardness of this sentence makes it clear this skill isn't fully there yet. I'm just turning left and right back and forth to stay on the rails as I would snowboarding (it feels weird after years of snowboarding to flatfoot anything on a board), and trying to read the wave and keep height as I can. There's a lot to be learned here.

You are absolutely right that there is no panacea, nor am I looking for one. This is going to take time and work to get better. I'm fine with losing a little stability now though, it feels like time and the foamie is here whenever I want to surf it. It's been a great year riding it all the time and I am a wavestorm fan. It works great in easy waves and because they're so affordable they open surfing to so many people. Plus they are much safer if it's crowded.

Thank you for the tip on the carver. Why do you think that it's specifically a good one over the vast array of mini-mals and hybrids out there?

Regarding the Addvance, what would be the advantage to getting that over something like the Special T in an 8? Maybe I'll rent one, since awayco has them.

[alex_k]

Waikikikichan -- No, I don't think it is the wavestorm's fault. I've learned that it's needed to get back on the board as things get steeper, consistent with your comments. This is one of an unlimited set of things to learn about how to better surf more challenging waves. It's pretty different from trying to get up on a knee-high, mellow hill of water at 38th in Santa Cruz, where I found that being forward makes it easier to actually catch a tiny wave. Perhaps I overemphasized the falling on the face. That was definitely the case my first day there, but it's gotten way better.

I decided it was time to think about an upgrade after multiple more experienced surfers asked why I hadn't already. I asked them about general handling, how to learn how to get speed and make drops, what they would ride themselves at that break and what they would recommend for someone of my level there and elsewhere. Then I tried a rental and a borrowed board as I mentioned above, not wanting to needlessly spend. I quickly got some of my best waves on them, the firewire in less than an hour riding it, and then thought, "Okay, it's time."

[surf patrol]

Anyway, both the las olas and firewire boards I mentioned surfed very well and I felt comfortable on them instantly. They were different from each other though. The las olas felt tippy in front and easy to pearl, but I felt very confident when up, doing bottom turns and keeping height on the face. There was a one wave that I thought was breaking left at Ocean (beach break, tougher to read), took off a little backside, then did a full bottom turn to frontside, and connected four or five sections to the sand, getting up the face to pick up some speed multiple times. I hadn't managed to pull that off a wave like that before.

The firewire at the reef break took off like a rocket and felt stiff under my feet. I made two chest high drops (big for me) and then was flying. But it felt more challenging to control turns and keep height on the face, possibly just because I was at M's on a tougher day rather than Ocean on a mellower day. But it's possible that the extra volume and length are a little much for me, and I should ride that one in an 8' / 56L rather than 8' 6". Or something else entirely, I just don't have the experience to differentiate yet.

I am not confident what is making these differences. The las olas is single fin, firewire was thruster. They are 4" different in length and 7L in volume. They both have pretty flat rocker. The las olas has a narrower nose and tail, and a thinner nose. The shop told me it was polyurethane and heavily glassed. The firewire has wood and epoxy. I would love to better understand the effects of these things.

If you have any thoughts on this kind of specifics I would love to hear them. I think I would be extremely happy on either of these, but there are many other similar models that might be even better.

Thank you,

[surferbee]

Everyone has their own progression. Some surfers get one board and ride it for years, really getting it dialed and building their skill set. That makes sense, although the trade off is that you can end up struggling to make it work in less-than-ideal situations when you'd be better off on something else. Others try a bunch of different boards, sticking with what feels best and building their skills based on what each board offers. That also makes sense, although the trade off (especially when you're a beginner) is that you may have a hard time differentiating when your skills are lacking and when the board just isn't a good fit.

As for the above board suggestions, I could Google it for you... Read up on 'em and see what you think. You're right, there are a ton of hybrids out there, and they're all designed to do exactly what you're asking for: combine the wave-catching ability of a longboard with the performance characteristics of a short board. Each is a compromise in it's own way. In either case, you don't have to choose between those two models, but look at how they differ from the standard mal and you'll start to better understand shaping characteristics.

FWIW, I've never ridden the Addvance, but people seem to love 'em for being really versatile and good beginner transition boards with a wide range of usage beyond beginner. I suggested it because of that and because you indicated that you were looking at other Firewire models that are probably less-suited to your initial questions. Same with the Carver, which I have. It's more versatile (and faster) than my mal and more performance oriented, works in overhead OB and small Lindamar mush. It's the board I take out when I'm feeling too lazy to short board or just want to catch a ton more waves. But more than all of that, I suggested looking at it because it may help you identify similar boards that will serve your purposes.

For instance: I'm not connected to the seller at all, but this is a pretty similar shape by a reputable local shaper and the dims should work for your height and weight: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/spo/d/ ... 13687.html

Or, if you're doing Awayco, it looks like they have an Addvance you can try.

But yeah, there's still a lot more you can learn on your foamie in the meantime.

[dtc]

I think what you are looking for is what is called a 'fun gun' - not a semi gun, the 'fun' bit is very important

Basically its a long board (like 8ft or so) and wide like a mal (22 etc), but with two significant differences
- rounded outline (rather than parallel rails like a mal)
- pointier nose

So like this one

http://www.redzsurfboard.com/fun-gun/

Another option, as mentioned, is something like the McTavish carver. You can see that is a straighter outline version of the fun gun but without much/any parallel rails (or the fun gun is a slightly curvier version of the carve I guessr). Both have double concaves, fairly flat rocker.

These boards are designed to have a lot of speed down the line. So those are the boards best designed to meet your requirements (I havent been able to find a pic of the Chuleta, but it sounds similar)

Whether they are the best boards for you as an individual surfer is a different question. You may be much better off sticking with a more traditional shaped longboard, If you found the Chuleta too unstable, then a wider nose will give you some extra stability and confidence.

The Addvance is probably not quite the right board, it is designed more for good surfers who still want some manoeuvrability but with extra foam, rather than a learner surfer who wants a stable easy to surf board. Or a carver style might be a good compromise between pure speed and extra 'assistance' from the board.

I honestly wouldnt worry too much about the precise board, or epoxy vs PU vs firewire. there are certainly differences, but you arent going to find out which board you like, which construction material you like, until you surf 10 different boards and start narrowing down what works and what doesnt. As surferbee suggested, by all means by a second hand board or two or five and see what works and what doesnt. You will never get 'the perfect' first non foam board, because you have no point of reference. All you can do is make a sensible decision (ie long board, nothing too short or narrow) and give it a go

[alex_k]

Surferbee, good call on watching and learning from the smaller differences from the standard designs. It's tricky to see through the marketing googling this, because everyone seems to advertise their hybrids exactly as you say. I appreciate the tip on the carver and am glad you elaborated a bit -- that it works for you in overhead OB and lindamar mush makes me think that general style is perfect, more suited to long-term goals. It's more different from the wavestorm and I can just stay on that when it's tiny.

My general takeaway is that something 8' ish, thick and wide is good. A little bit of a narrower tail or nose, some overall rail curvature or a little rocker (like on the fun gun, dtc) are probably good long term for getting some of the handling I would eventually like. (But only a little on all of these, don't want to get something to performance-y).

Most importantly, I should pick something reasonable, not worry too much and surf a lot. Which I knew, but still, trying to make a good choice.

Thanks much to both of you, this is super super helpful.

[alex_k]

Hi dtc, surferbee and others who may be interested,

Following this conversation, I picked up a Twinzer Sword longboard from Eastside Industries used via craigslist, 8'2" x 22" x 2 7/8", 57L. I'd never heard of them before, but it's a nice, one-guy operation in Santa Cruz. The shaper advertises it as "Super fast, perfect for bigger days and big carves. Makes sections like you wouldn't believe" which is exactly what I wanted. The outline appears a little less curved than the carver or fun gun, but more than a standard mini mal, especially in the tail. The nose and tail are both much thinner those of than a normal mini-mal, and the tail has a hard corner on the rails in the final foot and a half or so, which blends into a rounder outline in the rest of the board. The twinzer fin setup is distinctive, and I was told loosens up the board for turns and is good for generating speed.

It is so, so much better. The first bigger day out, I was perfectly positioned about to take a steeper, head-high drop. First test, thought I was likely to get pummeled. I popped up, got the board on the rail, hit the trough going fast and made it though a bottom turn. A short section collapsed right in front of me, and to my surprise (and that of the dude who dropped in on me) I made it around the whitewash to a clean section. I couldn't believe it.

There's been a little bit of a learning curve, of course, to get timing right on paddling with about 30L fewer in volume than the wavestorm, but pretty minimal. Within a few sessions, I was catching as many waves and in bigger days (of which there have been many) I'm now making many more of them. It is much less tippy to in the nose than the chuleta when paddling. It is easier to control and make turns compared to the firewire longboard, I feel more connected to the wave rather than feeling like I'm planing over it. The effect of the fins is difficult to tell without a direct comparison. Would this feel as good as a thruster? Is its good maneuverability for the size because there's no center fin? I don't know how to tell without controlled experiments, but I sure am happy with how it's working.

Many times, in larger, more challenging waves, I've stayed up on tougher drops. People had advised me that it is less forgiving than the foamie, but it doesn't feel that way, especially when trying to do a good bottom turn. Today I picked off a wave that I would have said was head high, but my friend who could see from inside said, no, more like a foot or two overhead. It might have been the biggest wave I've ever made, and it felt natural taking the drop and I even pulled a nice cutback.

It was absolutely time to upgrade. Every good session I'm pulling off better turns or making waves that I might not have a few months or weeks before. I'm having a blast and surfing better than ever.

Thanks again for your helpful thoughts and opinions!

[jaffa1949]

Sounds like you were ready for it, nice when it all clicks for the next stage