Pop Up Advice

[Big H]

Nice video JJ.....but take off your shoes! LOL Bad enough shoes on in the house! If it hurts then good; get your feet in shape to surf.

[waikikikichan]

If the OP is not Asian, he won't be able to do it, especially in tight jeans holding a latte. ( not because what the girl says at 4:25 )

[Big H]

Only one other thing....don't agree with the jumping up the board thing. The pro surfer you have in the video is doing late drops on steep waves; if anything he's thinking about keeping his weight back over the fins and inside rail....no need to jump into those waves as they fall away and gravity takes over.

[Big H]

Love that video!

[LostAtSea]

Only one other thing....don't agree with the jumping up the board thing. The pro surfer you have in the video is doing late drops on steep waves; if anything he's thinking about keeping his weight back over the fins and inside rail....no need to jump into those waves as they fall away and gravity takes over.

Good point, maybe it’s more about simply getting weight forward so a surfer doesn’t fall off the back of an otherwise makeable wave.

Re: wearing my shoes in the video - surfing in Canada, I wear thick booties 100% of the time, it feels super strange to not have anything on my feet.

[Beginner77]

If the OP is not Asian, he won't be able to do it, especially in tight jeans holding a latte. ( not because what the girl says at 4:25 )

I have no problem with that position, for me that's a default for saying hi to dogs and toddlers . I do have a problem getting my legs underneath me with my hands on the board though - it feels like they're too long and my arms too short. I say 'feels like' because it may be a lack of flexibility, although maybe subtley different from reach the position in that picture? Or maybe the fact I can do that pose means that yes, my legs are too long and my arms too short?

[oldmansurfer]

Did you try getting your hands down close to your waist? The further back your hands go the higher you can raise your butt. If you could popup with your hands by your feet you would be toe touching and the more forward you have your hands the lower your butt and the less room for your legs

[Beginner77]

Did you try getting your hands down close to your waist? The further back your hands go the higher you can raise your butt. If you could popup with your hands by your feet you would be toe touching and the more forward you have your hands the lower your butt and the less room for your legs

Not yet, no. I'll try at home tonight. Thanks for reminding me.

[Beginner77]

Did you try getting your hands down close to your waist? The further back your hands go the higher you can raise your butt. If you could popup with your hands by your feet you would be toe touching and the more forward you have your hands the lower your butt and the less room for your legs

Not yet, no. I'll try at home tonight. Thanks for reminding me.

OK, so I've tried this and yes, it does give more room for my legs, so thanks very much! It hadn't occurred to me. My hands were level with my chest, as taught, but if I put them down to my waist I can pop up with my fingertips on the board. This still isn't flat hands on the board like I see other more accomplished surfers doing, but I'm guessing it'll be easier on a wave for the aforementioned reasons of the board dropping etc. I'll experiment with hand position next time I'm out.

[tomthetreeman]

Also, the very first response (I think) from dtc about looking up is GREAT advice. In combination with hand position, it should help a lot!

Tom

[Beginner77]

Also, the very first response (I think) from dtc about looking up is GREAT advice. In combination with hand position, it should help a lot!

Tom

Definitely, yes. I've always been told to look up and look where I want to go by surf instructors, so I always do that. The hand problem has always remained though.

[dtc]

I forgot about this but its worth a look - a slow mo video of pro surfers popping up at the wave pool. Its pretty useful

You can see that the pros dont 'pop up with both hands on the board'. Their hands leave the board just before they complete the pop up (just as their feet land). You definitely dont want to have your feet on the board and your hands on the board - your hands are a vital part of balancing and essential for turning. If they are on the board, you cant do either and you are leaning way too far forward. So dont think you need to do it (in fact, dont do it). You are pivoting around your lower belly/waist - as your feet go down your hands and upper body go up

As to hand positioning, another useful tip is to have one hand slightly further back than the other (right hand for natural footer). This helps you with the twist as you pop up (up and twist around)

[Beginner77]

I forgot about this but its worth a look - a slow mo video of pro surfers popping up at the wave pool. Its pretty useful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYZ46bGfZ08

You can see that the pros dont 'pop up with both hands on the board'. Their hands leave the board just before they complete the pop up (just as their feet land). You definitely dont want to have your feet on the board and your hands on the board - your hands are a vital part of balancing and essential for turning. If they are on the board, you cant do either and you are leaning way too far forward. So dont think you need to do it (in fact, dont do it). You are pivoting around your lower belly/waist - as your feet go down your hands and upper body go up

As to hand positioning, another useful tip is to have one hand slightly further back than the other (right hand for natural footer). This helps you with the twist as you pop up (up and twist around)

Ah, I wasn't being clear enough, sorry - my fault. Just as you say, during the pop up, as their legs come up underneath them, their hands are still on the board at all times. Their hands only leave the board once their feet are down. For me, my hands have to come off the board in order to get my feet under my body. You know those press-ups where you clap each time? That's basically what I'm doing, except getting my legs under myself at the same time. It's that key difference I was referring to. I want to be able to get to my feet like they do, rather than literally 'pop':

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Notice how Carissa Moore and particularly Steph Gilmore let go with their hands earlier than the guys do. In these photos, everyone's front foot is just touching, and whilst the guys have a fair amount of hand on the deck, the girls only have their fingertips touching. Women are known to have a lower ape index than men, and at 5'10" with a 36" inside leg, that is more my proportions. I'm going to have another practise at home tonight and see if, rather than trying to replicate the guys, I can replicate what the girls are doing, using the advice above to have my hands further back of course.

[Big H]

So I had to go look up what an Ape Index was.....

"Ape index, or ape factor, is a measure of the ratio of an individual's arm span relative to their height. A typical ratio is 1, as identified by the Roman writer, architect and engineer Vitruvius prior to 15 BC."
Ape Index, Wikipedia

There are two versions of the Ape Index:

Usually it is defined as the ratio of arm span to height:
Ape Index 1 = Arm Span / Height
If you're 175cm tall and your arm span is 180cm your ape index would be 1.028
For the alternative approach the height is subtracted from your arm span:

Ape Index 2 = Arm Span - Height
Still being 180cm tall and with an arm span of 175cm this alternative ape index would be 5 (cm).
In sports like rock climbing, swimming or boxing some people believe that a positive Ape Index, (a value greater than 1), where the arm span is greater than the height, is a competitive advantage. Others doubt it.

So, knowing this I HAD to find out my Ape index. Closest I've ever gotten to measuring my arm length was for buying fancier shirts that spec the collar size and arm length. I always had to find the shirts with the longest arms (36in) is what I remember. Long time since I've shopped in a store like that.

Anyhow, I've apparently got some monkey in me as my height is 184cm and armspan is 191cm, making my Ape Index ratio 1.038.



Anyhow, here is my favourite pop up video......the guy in the video has pretty long arms it seems as well. Something I'd not considered.

[Big H]

If you really want to analyze the videos, look at the inside hand vs the outside on each surfer including the video I just posted. More often than not the inside hand is lower on the board while the outside hand is fingertips at that moment of popping up as pictured. I won't speculate on the meaning of that, only wanted to point it out.

[Big H]

So I guess you need to take advice given by me or anyone with an ape index heavily weighted to monkey like me with a grain of salt. OMS advice and anyone else who has said so about placing hands lower is spot on though and if you are putting your hands too high it will not help you pop up. I tried to pay attention to where I put my hands this last session (yesterday), but I couldn't pay attention as I was concentrating on everything else. It's muscle memory for me at this point, good or bad. I'm sure I could probably put them lower as when I do place them low it feels strange. So maybe something to work on though I don't have any issues I'm aware of with my pop up. But I do love fixing things that aren't broken (tinker man at heart) so one more thing to fiddle with.

[Tudeo]

Muscle memory it is. Just like I couldn't *tell* you what buttons to push for my favorite Xbox game, I still don't know exactly how I do my pop ups. I only know how it feels, perfect or less so..

When I'm fit it's effortless and tuned in to the specifics of that wave, but when I get tired the body starts fading into knee and belly rides.. Time to ride it home then..

But I do notice it when riding bigger boards in the 8-9 foot range, that I can slow things down and be more aware of my popup. It's like a refreshment lesson to smoothen technique, very good for injury prevention.

But everybody has their own approach of surfing I guess, and that's fine. I think it just comes down to doing it a lot, and understanding what works and what doesn't. Slowly integrating rational knowledge into muscle knowledge.