Fins Setup Single vs. 2+1

[waikikikichan]

Apologies to RinkyDink for making his question into a post, but I thought it good to get other's input on it's own post.

When I bought my longboard I took off the side bites and set up the board as a single fin. Now I want to try my side bites again, but the fins have disappeared somewhere in the black hole of my garage. Anyway, I don't understand side bites. What are their function? Are they supposed to give the board more stability or are they meant to give the board more maneuverability? If you set up your board with side bites, are you supposed to have a shorter center fin? I confess, I'm completely in the dark about what I should expect from side biters. Enlighten me because I haven't been able to ride them and figure out why I want them or don't want them.

First read Jaffa's fin primer. Then find those sidebites and try them. Nothing like a sit of your pants opinion.
But here our my thoughts:
If you are on a 9'0" longboard you should run a 9" fin ( +/- ) So say that single fin equals to "90" on whatever scale. If you add two sidebites to that same single fin, the volume/area is increased too much. Single fin 90 plus 15 left sidebite and 15 right sidebite equals to 120. So you need to lower the center single fin to 60 ( or like 6-7' fin ). A thruster fin set up where all three fins are equal would have each fin about 33 ( or about 3.5" ).

What difference does a single fin versus 2+1 feel like ? The 2+1 feels between how the single set up and a thruster set up feels. ( so not the answer you want to hear ). The single you need to wait for the fin to load up and then release. The thruster you need to constantly drive. 2+1 is truly a mixture of both. Try watching Wingnut's art of longboarding 3 Quest for style, where Dino Miranda explains it in detail.

But try it, it might have more "bite" on steeper wave and let you gain some speed or it might track and send you flying as the board goes straight.

[BaNZ]

I rode my 2+1 for the first time last weekend. Wave was steep and fast. I find the initial turn harder but once the board gets going, it turns easier and it gives me the feeling of I'm driving the fins hard into the turns. Either way, I'm still too inexperienced to tell the difference.

[Tudeo]

Thanks for this subject Waikikikichan, very interested in it since I just bought a Single fin 9'4 from a local shaper.
Epoxy with wooden stringer, 9'4x23x3, 16" tail and 18"nose, 9" fin, blended nose concave and then rounded vee until the tail.

I also have a PU 9'2 with 2+1 fins and a 8'2 thruster.

Surfed it four times now. The first thing I noticed was it's great paddle speed, but I had to figure out positioning on the board first, when I move forward it seems to slows down. The nose has a deep concave and when I move back until most of the concave is above the water it speeds up paddling a lot.

I rode it first in head high frontside (right) waves, and it was great. I got the impression it was faster than the other boards, I made sections with ease were for the other boards the wave would have ended. But I'm still not sure if this is purely speed or the different riding style. This board invites me to walk forward and speed down the line instead of making turns.

The nose feels stable in the right situation but I still have a mental block to make that last step. I just stand there, one step short, looking in awe. It feels great.

I tried it in overhead lefts, my backside, but had trouble controlling it. A lot of wiping out. Also this was on a lower tide and the waves were a bit too steep for my inexperience with this board. Yesterday was shoulder high and felt perfect. This was a different left wave spot, and again I made sections I normally don't, I just could keep going from all the way outside until shore dump, crazy!

On the downside, this board is not so easy to handle critically angled late drops. Were the other 2 boards let me set the rail and take off, this one just gets sweeped sideways. Also I noticed when walking forward when the board is speeding in head high, the fin can start sliding away. But in a controllable way, step back and the fin engages again.

Then there's pearling. The pearl when paddling for the wave, too far forward on the board and the nose sinks away. This is the relaxed pearl vs the neckbreaker pearl after you popped up and are too late with turning down the line, the nose catches sending you headfirst over the board, hoping for deep water..

But I'm sure i'll get better at avoiding this with more experience. Yesterday I noticed in time I was too late to paddle for the wave, a right, and I timed my popup in the moment the wave pitched me, It worked out perfect, lesson learned. Now I got to figure this out for the many lefts here..

[dtc]

A lot of people (I read) find that 3 fins allow you to turn from further forward on the board ie back foot not as far back. But a single is truly a pivot point, so if you do get your foot that far back you can really twist the board around. But otherwise single fins tend to have longer more drawn out turns

As wkk says the main difference is that you are meant to ‘drive’ a three fin set up. But tbh, on my longboard you can glide along without providing any drive regardless of whether it’s single or 2+1 set up. I’m guessing it’s a difference once you start going into bigger turns etc; but if I’m on my longboard it’s for small waves that I’m just gliding along and being lazy, so the difference is meh. For me!

[waikikikichan]

This board invites me to walk forward and speed down the line instead of making turns.

And that is so true and the beauty of the Single fin. Flow, being one with the wave. No herky jerky movements just graceful lines.

Also I noticed when walking forward when the board is speeding in head high, the fin can start sliding away. But in a controllable way, step back and the fin engages again.

Riding a Single teaches you to surf correctly. It teaches you to feel for the fin under foot. It teaches you to use the rail and being in the right spot of the wave. Singles tell you when you're doing something wrong and rewards you when it all comes together right.

A lot of people (I read) find that 3 fins allow you to turn from further forward on the board ie back foot not as far back. But a single is truly a pivot point, so if you do get your foot that far back you can really twist the board around.

Yeah, you can't just throw 3 fins on your board, when you usually ride a Single and ride it the same way. ( and vice-versa ) If I've been riding a Single fin for awhile and then jump on a thruster, it does feel strange for a couple waves. I think some people might catch a rail/edge the very first time they try riding with sidebites.

[Tudeo]

And that is so true and the beauty of the Single fin. Flow, being one with the wave. No herky jerky movements just graceful lines.

I love it when the wave gets in a weak section and I feel I'm losing the ride, but then just in time step forward and feel the board accelerate again. This way the ride only stops when my legs get too tired or I reach shallow waters. It's a nice mellow stoke.

[jaffa1949]

The one fin stance,
Is a graceful dance,
How it goes goes
Light on toes
between tail and nose
Turn from the tail
Step forward with rail,
Be glad you’re alive
With the single fin jive.

[RinkyDink]

Apologies to RinkyDink for making his question into a post, but I thought it good to get other's input on it's own post.
What difference does a single fin versus 2+1 feel like ? The 2+1 feels between how the single set up and a thruster set up feels. ( so not the answer you want to hear ). The single you need to wait for the fin to load up and then release. The thruster you need to constantly drive. 2+1 is truly a mixture of both. Try watching Wingnut's art of longboarding 3 Quest for style, where Dino Miranda explains it in detail.

But try it, it might have more "bite" on steeper wave and let you gain some speed or it might track and send you flying as the board goes straight.

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm looking forward to reading what others think of their side biters. I wanted to put mine back on, but I think I might have accidentally thrown them out (Argh!) or they're lost somewhere under a mountain of stuff. Anyway, I don't really feel like buying another pair is worth it so I'm just going to stick with the single fin. Who knows? I may end up buying another longboard that has them.

[RinkyDink]

Thanks for this subject Waikikikichan, very interested in it since I just bought a Single fin 9'4 from a local shaper.
Epoxy with wooden stringer, 9'4x23x3, 16" tail and 18"nose, 9" fin, blended nose concave and then rounded vee until the tail.
Surfed it four times now. The first thing I noticed was it's great paddle speed, but I had to figure out positioning on the board first, when I move forward it seems to slows down. The nose has a deep concave and when I move back until most of the concave is above the water it speeds up paddling a lot.

Beautiful surfboards, Tudeo, and you get to ride them on Bali waves. Good for you

[RinkyDink]

A lot of people (I read) find that 3 fins allow you to turn from further forward on the board ie back foot not as far back. But a single is truly a pivot point, so if you do get your foot that far back you can really twist the board around. But otherwise single fins tend to have longer more drawn out turns

As wkk says the main difference is that you are meant to ‘drive’ a three fin set up. But tbh, on my longboard you can glide along without providing any drive regardless of whether it’s single or 2+1 set up. I’m guessing it’s a difference once you start going into bigger turns etc; but if I’m on my longboard it’s for small waves that I’m just gliding along and being lazy, so the difference is meh. For me!

I agree with you. Honestly, I don't drive or thrust my longboard much. I'm sure if my skill level were higher I might trim my longboard more energetically, but I'm okay with gliding. The beauty of a longboard for me is getting that initial burst of speed at the start of a wave/takeoff. If I want "drive" or want to pump a surfboard, then I'll grab one of my shorter boards.

[Tudeo]

Beautiful surfboards, Tudeo, and you get to ride them on Bali waves. Good for you

Well, no lack of wave power here, I'm just in need of a bit less swell to ride my new board in my favorite breaks.

My (limited) Single fin experience until now tells me it gets tricky in over 4-6ft wave faces. But then again, tricky doesn't mean impossible, right?

[waikikikichan]

My (limited) Single fin experience until now tells me it gets tricky in over 4-6ft wave faces. But then again, tricky doesn't mean impossible, right?

It's possible. Takuji Masuda on a Single fin in macking Pipeline.

[Tudeo]

Wow, he got in so early! Great pic!
And then it's a race to stay ahead off too much steepness, I guess?

[Big H]

When it gets bigger I put in a bigger fin.....gives the board a little more bite. On my 9.2 normally I use a 9" fin, a few different kinds but all about the same area and length. When it gets bigger I have a 9.75" greenough 4a and a 10" Fcs fin....either one and I feel more solid out there.

[oldmansurfer]

Consider that everyone used glassed in single fins on every kind of wave a while back so I would say it definitely doesn't hamper your riding bigger waves

[waikikikichan]

And then it's a race to stay ahead off too much steepness, I guess?

In the still photo, it's a Single fin.

In the video below, knowing him, he should be riding a single. He gets in early, bottom turns and drives up into the barrel.

[Big H]

Got a “new” used board yesterday. Cleaned it up and put a fresh wax on it; haven’t set up the fins yet. Going to start with a cutaway 6.5” and two side bites which I think are 3.75”....the bigger size side bites anyway. Board is an 8’ Walden mega magic with 84L volume which should be awesome for the upcoming wet / small swell season.

[Big H]

Take a look at the step in the deck; that’s keeping the volume without overly fat rails. Have t surfed it yet but got on it in the pool and it should paddle like my 10’ board I would guess.

Interesting in terms of fin choice, board is relatively light, has a big concave running down the center ....was thinking since shorter than a longboard the twin stabi set up might be good. Only one way to find out....R&D is the best part of this process!

[Tudeo]

Got a “new” used board yesterday.

Ha, I've seen that board in the on-sale group for a week or so, the guy had just lowered it's price. Good timing Big H!
Looks like a great board for a bigger guy like you. But are you sure of the volume 84L? The boards I see online, the SLX and the X2 are 74L for 8'.

[Big H]

It’s a beast...... no accident on my buying when I did. Smelled desperation, got some more knocked off on top of the price cut so a super deal.