The right time to transition to a shortboard

[Eraserhead]

It is a T&C Tanaka board, there are 3 about equal size fins, maybe 6 inches long.

I think we've found your problem.

Please expand. I have read quite a bit about fins and played with them quite a bit; changing distance from back, type of fin, size, whether 1 long or with side bites etc on my 9 foot custom board. Currently, have a 9" Islander from Island Fin Design on the 9' longboard. But after a while, i said to myself no need to play with the fins until i am good enough to note the differences of different fins easily. So that is why i kept what was on the T&C.

I am assuming, you will say that is an experienced set up. Just have one 9 or 10" fin?

[Eraserhead]

You are suffering from at least two issues
1 the PPPPs poor paddle power pearls, along with fear of humiliation in pearling.
If you don't paddle down into the gravity well of the wave, you will drift up and over the face of the wave.
If you don't match the wave speed the wave will raise the tail of your board pushing the nose into pearl.

If you paddle the board more to the back you are already applying the brakes. Over the back or pearl comes next.
Please don't worry, your level of competence has been weighed as you walk down the beach and paddle out.
Read through the whole swag of pop up,questions are answered the same, smart more effective positioning onmthe board and effective matching and timing with paddling. Get a good paddle , next step,is then good take off.

Thank you, I have tried some of the techniques you guys suggested this weekend. I was out there probably 8 hours in 2 days.

I used to paddle full speed for like 5-10 seconds when i saw a large wave coming. I tried to change that to slowly paddle/position for a few seconds and go hardcore paddle the last couple seconds. I also have been trying to really arch my back as high as i can and look straight instead of anywhere on the the board. That seemed to help a lot.

I tried to push the rails into the wave and was able to do that especially when going right (back side). It feels natural to lean back and pull the opposite rail to myself to help with balance.

One thing i get mixed suggestion is the position on the board. When i first started taking lessons, in fact my very surfboard teacher in waikiki, kept telling me to go back on the board almost to the point my feet was sticking out on a 10 foot board. That could that since those guys push your board when a wave comes, their only worry is that you dont pearl and get up so they can earn their money. On the other hand i took lessons from a lady in northshore (tamayo perry's wife) and she kept telling i needed to be way front of the board and move back if i need to in the last second, like after i catch the wave. That seems way too hard.

I still wasnt good on the head high or overhead waves this weekend though. It just felt like i was always catching the wave on the steepest part no matter how far out i tried to go in order to catch waves early. On the other hand, some of the other guys i was observing seems to have a ton of time, they can even take a second right before the drop to kind of determine how they want to take off.

Regarding your point about others surfers determining your level of competence, how many waves would you say you need to see to determine the level of a surfer. The reason i am asking is, does an experienced surfer never make a kook move, pearl or get catapulted from the top of the wave. I may easily have a 3,5 wave stretch where i feel i do everything right or the opposite and i do everything wrong.

[dtc]

The fin issue is that your fins arent (or shouldnt be) 6 inches long. If they are all truly 6 inches, then you have the wrong fins (they should be maybe 4.5 inches or less). Probably your fins are fine and your estimate was wrong.

As to body positioning, its 'easy'. Lay on your board in flat water. Shuffle up and down until the nose of the board is approx 1 inch from the surface. That is your go to position for paddling. It may seem too far forward but just trust that it isnt. When you are paddling for waves (as opposed to paddling around), if the waves are very steep you may want to shuffle back an inch and if the wave are crumbling you might want to go forward an inch. Or so - you will need to experiment. But start from the basic position and make small changes until it works. At the last minute you can arch your back more or throw your head down (no arch) to make some minor adjustments (you wont have time to actually shuffle your body, its just a change of weight through moving your upper body. Although on a long board it doesnt do a huge amount)

This position maximises paddle efficiency ie speed. As you have identified, if someone is pushing you then your paddle efficiency doesnt really matter too much - you are being pushed. If you have to do it yourself, then it definitely matters.

As to how many waves does it take to assess a surfer? Usually one, although if its repeated over 2-3 waves then its confirmed. But I think the better you can personally surf, then the easier it is to assess another surfer (because you know what they are doing right/wrong). So (to be blunt!) when you think you are doing everything right, probably you are doing 25% right. You are catching the wave so great; but the guy next to you taking off late and looking very relaxed and doing a nice sharp turn with a great stance - s/he also caught the wave, but just is obviously better (which is fine, they were at your level at some stage as well and you havent spent 15 years of your life surfing every day. Yet)

[Eraserhead]

The fin issue is that your fins arent (or shouldnt be) 6 inches long. If they are all truly 6 inches, then you have the wrong fins (they should be maybe 4.5 inches or less). Probably your fins are fine and your estimate was wrong.

As to body positioning, its 'easy'. Lay on your board in flat water. Shuffle up and down until the nose of the board is approx 1 inch from the surface. That is your go to position for paddling. It may seem too far forward but just trust that it isnt. When you are paddling for waves (as opposed to paddling around), if the waves are very steep you may want to shuffle back an inch and if the wave are crumbling you might want to go forward an inch. Or so - you will need to experiment. But start from the basic position and make small changes until it works. At the last minute you can arch your back more or throw your head down (no arch) to make some minor adjustments (you wont have time to actually shuffle your body, its just a change of weight through moving your upper body. Although on a long board it doesnt do a huge amount)

This position maximises paddle efficiency ie speed. As you have identified, if someone is pushing you then your paddle efficiency doesnt really matter too much - you are being pushed. If you have to do it yourself, then it definitely matters.

As to how many waves does it take to assess a surfer? Usually one, although if its repeated over 2-3 waves then its confirmed. But I think the better you can personally surf, then the easier it is to assess another surfer (because you know what they are doing right/wrong). So (to be blunt!) when you think you are doing everything right, probably you are doing 25% right. You are catching the wave so great; but the guy next to you taking off late and looking very relaxed and doing a nice sharp turn with a great stance - s/he also caught the wave, but just is obviously better (which is fine, they were at your level at some stage as well and you havent spent 15 years of your life surfing every day. Yet)

thank you. I will try to take some photos of the surfboard, keep forgetting for some reason.

All the feedback i am getting here is making me realize a few things:

1- I am never going to be a good surfer until i stop asking myself whether i am good or not and whether others think i am good enough or not. And when i say a good surfer i dont mean a surfer who does all kinds of moves but one who- like you said- is relaxed and in synch with the wave and ocean.
2- It is not or it shouldnt be about getting good. It should be about having fun and being at peace with yourself and the ocean. Getting good just will hopefully come a result of having fun doing an activity i like and having a passion for. I tell myself 3 things whenever i am entering the ocean: be safe, be respectful, have fun. But the more i put miles, the less surfing became about fun and more about feeling good about myself, which requires me to feel i am better and better each session and that others notice it. On the other hand, the very first wave i ever caught, i was stunned by how exhilarating it was just to ride a 1 foot wave straight to the beach with zero control. Now, i am feeling bad if i take a nice 4-5 foot wave but take a little long to turn.

By the way i know i am using this thread as my psychotherapy session

[oldmansurfer]

Having fun surfing should be automatic. You shouldn't have to work at having fun. But what you need to do is set some realistic goals. You don't want to try to do something that will only frustrate you without reward. So find the learning rate that suits you and don't tell yourself you need to do better than that. Having expectations of yourself that remain unfulfilled makes a person feel like a failure. So expect things of yourself that you can achieve in some reasonable length of time. Each person has a limit to how much failure they can tolerate so learn that and if you find yourself approaching that limit reset your goals to less than what makes you feel like a failure. They say that if you aren't falling down you aren't learning. I am not sure if that is true however if you don't ever fall down your learning rate will be slow and maybe boring and if you fall down all the time it will also be slow but frustrating unless you like to fall down. You need to figure out how much falling down you can take and push yourself only that far and how much boring you can take and push yourself more than that. You can send me money in the mail for this psychotherapy session to
Oldmansurfer
Space #1 Parking lot by the bridge
Wailua beach, Hawaii.

[Eraserhead]

Having fun surfing should be automatic. You shouldn't have to work at having fun. But what you need to do is set some realistic goals. You don't want to try to do something that will only frustrate you without reward. So find the learning rate that suits you and don't tell yourself you need to do better than that. Having expectations of yourself that remain unfulfilled makes a person feel like a failure. So expect things of yourself that you can achieve in some reasonable length of time. Each person has a limit to how much failure they can tolerate so learn that and if you find yourself approaching that limit reset your goals to less than what makes you feel like a failure. They say that if you aren't falling down you aren't learning. I am not sure if that is true however if you don't ever fall down your learning rate will be slow and maybe boring and if you fall down all the time it will also be slow but frustrating unless you like to fall down. You need to figure out how much falling down you can take and push yourself only that far and how much boring you can take and push yourself more than that. You can send me money in the mail for this psychotherapy session to
Oldmansurfer
Space #1 Parking lot by the bridge
Wailua beach, Hawaii.

Haha, i need that weekly and in person please. No that is great advice. Just a quick point on that though. It is hard to set goals in surfing. Just like it is hard to implement just very basic things, things always seem to happen naturally. For example, i tell myself after i get off the wave and paddling out, in the next wave i will do this and that, for example i said yesterday when i am paddling for the next wave, i will pay attention to arching my back and paddling 'with purpose'. I took 30 waves and not in one of them i was able to pay attention. I was always consumed with focusing on the wave. Which is actually one of the best things about surfing, you are so in the moment that there is no thinking about work or financial issues or whatever. But most of the advice given here, I have realized it is not possible to implement in a methodical way because it is impossible to think about what you need to do when you are paddling for a wave. Maybe the solution is to do these things when waves are smaller. For example, i can implement what i need to do a lot easier on a 3 footer or less. I guess i found my solution. I need to keep on practicing when waves are smaller and just not have any expectation when waves are at levels i dont feel as confident but just try to enjoy and do the best i can.

[oldmansurfer]

Think about what you want to do before you go out. Go over in your mind how you will arch your back or whatever before you go out. I call it mental imaging. You can do it at home and do it every day when you aren't surfing. Imagine you are arching your back while surfing and actually lay down on the floor and pretend you are paddling and arch your back while imagining you are surfing.

[oldmansurfer]

On the other hand some people are happy not progressing. Some people want to relax surfing. Not me I want to get exercise. Especially as you get older and your maximum possible skill level goes down you may find that you back slide a bit even instead of progressing. I think that gets a lot of older surfers. It bothers them that they can't do what they used to but still at least for me I find surfing fun at a lower level but if your happiness isn't only from progressing then you may find a happy place. I read a book by an older surfer who spent years learning to do what I learned in weeks but he is happy with his skill level and even makes note that it is his physical disabilities that limit his learning so he has adapted to help it. He does a very different popup that most surf instructors would say is bad form but it is what works for him and he is happy surfing.

[dtc]

Like any sports, if you focus on 10 things at once you will do nothing. But you can focus on one thing at a time. Get that locked down, and then whatever happens after that is neither here nor there.

I actually just posted a similar thing in another thread, but you at times may need to make a call between 'surfing' (maximising time on the wave, going down the line etc) and 'skill development' (focusing on one particular activity and just doing that, even if it prevents you maximising your time on the wave). So the example I used was the bottom turn - you can spend 5 waves just trying to do the sharpest hardest bottom turn you can, even though that might shoot you up the face and over the back of the wave. Because the aim is not to surf the wave, its to do the hardest sharpest bottom turn.

Its like, say, soccer. You can just play soccer and run around and that will help you develop your passing; or you can spend time doing passing drills which are much more boring than playing, but will develop the skills faster. Its harder in surfing because waves are rarer, so spending 5 or 10 waves to practice something is mentally difficult. But rest assured that those guys you see who are good surfers probably had periods where they spent 15 sessions in a row just doing one particular manoeuvre. The difference is that they surfed every day and werent concerned about a lack of time to practice.

However, as old man says, there is requirement to do anything other than enjoy yourself.

[waikikikichan]

It is a T&C Tanaka board, there are 3 about equal size fins, maybe 6 inches long.

I think we've found your problem.

Please expand. I have read quite a bit about fins and played with them quite a bit; changing distance from back, type of fin, size, whether 1 long or with side bites etc on my 9 foot custom board. Currently, have a 9" Islander from Island Fin Design on the 9' longboard. But after a while, i said to myself no need to play with the fins until i am good enough to note the differences of different fins easily. So that is why i kept what was on the T&C.

I am assuming, you will say that is an experienced set up. Just have one 9 or 10" fin?

I am assuming that YOU assume too much. A single fin set up is usually more "classical" then the more modern more progressive 3 fin equal sized "Thruster" set up or the 2+1 set up. The basic rule of thumb for a longboard is inch for foot. So a 9 inch fin on a 9 foot board is about right. Now let's divide up the same pie into 3 pieces. Each fin should be about 3.33" thereabouts. Or maybe someone gets a big piece of pie and two others share the rest, so 6' center and 1.5" sides thereabout. But you running three 6 inch fins goes way beyond the mass/area of fin you should be running. ( although, I would think you just measured wrong because there's not many 6" side fins other than the MR-TX side fins.

[jaffa1949]

Read the fin primer, understand what we are sharing with you.
Do not assume , see what is real, lots of really good advice and about equipment.

So much of surfing is contrary to what non surfers think.

Understanding will you make good choices.

[Eraserhead]

Unfortunately all the talk about the surfboard and fins all of a sudden became moot when I came back to my car to see my surfboard is gone from the rack. This is my 3rd stolen board in the last year. Admittedly I bring my board everywhere I go on top my car so I can surf every time I want but I am so sick of this. I am almost ready to say I don’t care if I suck on a shortboard I am not losin one more board to an a$$hole

[jaffa1949]

Sad, there are racks that can lock your board on , there are ratchet lock tie downs with steel cables inside protective fabric covering.
Car dependent solutions, Estate wagons board inside, then of course shortboard inside.

Solutions maybe but having your board stolen sucks!

[oldmansurfer]

I have met a few guys who carry wavestorms on their car because no one usually steals those. When they go surfing they take their regular board but just going to work etc they carry the wavestorm just in case they run into some waves.

[waikikikichan]

I have met a few guys who carry wavestorms on their car because no one usually steals those.

That gives me a great idea ! Hide your 6'4" Hybrid/Fish board INSIDE the 8' Wavestorm. Plus it will insulate and protect it from damage and theft.

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah i know a guy who carries surfboards i the back of his truck and keeps the stripped off glass from a couple boards with the fins attached I guess to protect it from ultraviolet light laid over the top of them but maybe it also works to prevent theft?

[Eraserhead]

I have been looking at craigslist for a cheap used option. Here are a few options i have within what i want to spend, which at the rate i keep losing boards, is less than i usually would.

all of these are longboard shaped
tim carroll 8'2 x 21.5" x 3" Round pin tail and thruster set up
Apex Surf Designs 7'2'' x 21 5/8 x 2 13/16
Kimo's surf hut 6'7" x 22 x 3

I had a tim carroll board in the past and i really thought it was good. But in truth i like the 6-7 board since i can fit in the car and it is the cheapest of the 3.

But, based on what you guys said and my surfing ability at this point, 8-2 should be what i should try to get.

[waikikikichan]

Well you can’t stand on a 8’2” if it goes missing.
But even if you can stand on the 6’7”, with the intense heat inside the car, what’s going to keep it from blowing up / delaming leaving it in there ?

[Eraserhead]

Well you can’t stand on a 8’2” if it goes missing.
But even if you can stand on the 6’7”, with the intense heat inside the car, what’s going to keep it from blowing up / delaming leaving it in there ?

Ooops i had no idea about the problems leaving the board in the car. Plus, now that i think about it, what happens when the leftover wax melts. i just need to invest in a lockable strap it looks like.

Thanks for the advice.

[Eraserhead]

Well you can’t stand on a 8’2” if it goes missing.
But even if you can stand on the 6’7”, with the intense heat inside the car, what’s going to keep it from blowing up / delaming leaving it in there ?

So i have your blessing to get the 6'-7"? just kidding.

Another aspect between short and long boards is that a longer board will increase the wave count correct? That is true for anyone. I guess at this point, the more waves i get on, the better for me. So when choosing next board, I have to balance between wave count vs improving skills? Let me ask you this, what is the benefit of moving to a shorter board in the progression of surfing? Or is it just a matter of style?