The right time to transition to a shortboard

[Eraserhead]

Hi,

I have been reading the forums for a while but finally registered today as i see it is a great community here with experienced surfers always willing to share their wisdom. I have been surfing for about 1.5 years in Hawaii. So far i tried to do everything the textbook way. I got about 5 lessons in the beginning in waikiki. Started with a 11' longboard, then moved to 9-6, then 9', then 8-6, took another 5 lessons in North shore in more challenging conditions. Now i am on a 8 foot board. I go to rockpiles ala moana about 3-4 times a week at least. Even though i still wipe out, pearl, or fall every now and then, i am more consistent than ever before. I am probably an advanced beginner. It is however starting to feel like i am not progressing too much. Sure i can be a lot more consistent and feel a lot more confident in the longboard but some sessions feel like i catch wave after wave, do a bottom turn then ride it as far as i can while attempting some minor moves, some walking then rinse, repeat. When i dont feel progressing but just repeating, i feel a bit bored and discouraged.

So i have been thinking if it is the right time to try shortboard with relatively forgiving dimensions.

So is the right move continue with the longboard, be patient and move to more of an intermediate level (i still mess up on larger 5+ foot waves for example, i forget go at an angle or am not fast enough to pop and i go straight down the face of the wave hitting at a perpendicular angle and getting thrown off, also even though my positioning when catching waves is better still cant read waves well enough to be in the best position). Or should I take the plunge to a shortboard? I read a lot of comments that shortboard is learning to surf again so i wonder if i try to improve more on the longboard, i may still go through the same process on the shortboard whether now or later although i suspect the more confident i get and the better my balance gets, it should carry over.

So, in short, is it time for me to try shortboard and if so what kind of dimensions? I am 5-8, 165lbl.

[oldmansurfer]

I think most surfers experience that feeling that you aren't progressing. It seems to me that progression often comes in spurts. You go along and feel like you aren't learning then suddenly you have figured out how to do another maneuver. I think if ultimately you want to be riding a shortboard then you want to keep moving in that direction. But maybe not a shortboard yet. How did you do in the drops in size you have had so far?

[Eraserhead]

I think you are right in that regard. Progression comes in spurts. Sometimes, i feel like i am not progressing only to realize i have progressed when thinking about what i used to do before and what i do now.
In the biggest sizes i attempted to surf, which were about head high or slightly over, i did fine when waves were more rolling and less steep like diamond head or pops but didnt do well in more hollow, steeper waves. I think part of it is i dont have the confidence yet so i am hesitant when catching those waves like i feel i have to try but i will be surprised if i do everything the way i am supposed to.
I guess that is my answer. I need to build my confidence before i move to a shortboard which means keeping to go out and trying. The way those bigger size waves go is i take off, pop up fast and find myself dropping straight at close to 90 degree from the face and front of the board gets stuck when it hits water. On a couple of occasions, i moved slightly back on a drop like that and barely was able to lift the front so i could slide but it just didnt feel natural.
I have been reading bigger waves and more steep drops are not suitable for longboards but at the same i see good, experienced guys doing just fine. They are able to go literally sideways from the take off, trimming pretty high on the wave and not ever have to drop straight down the face.
Anyway, appreciate the feedback. i guess when the right time comes, i will feel i am ready.

[oldmansurfer]

Longer boards don't fit the shape of the wave well when pointed toward the shore and this is more noticeable on smaller waves (around the length of the board). On bigger waves it fits better. But once you learn to do it then it's not really an issue anymore. For me the easiest way is to angle the board and push the inside rail into the wave. Then when you drop only half the nose goes under water if that and it automatically pushes itself back out. When you drop down the face of a steep wave you go from leaning down the wave to pulling the board under you to catch you at the bottom. It's a tricky thing. Hey so how is Diamond head these days? I used to surf there back when I was in college at UH. I was surprised to find it not too crowded.

[Eraserhead]

yes i have heard of pushing the rail into the wave but like you said it feels quite tricky, especially when you are worrying about a number different things but i will try.
Diamond head is quite a big area with breaks all over the place so it doesnt feel as crowded as you think it will. But i hate the entry paddle. There are reefs all over the place that sometimes hit your surfboard when the tide is too low.

[jaffa1949]

I would stick with theboard you have and keep upgrading your skills. Getting angled take off working being able to make better and bigger turns.
Take the honourable wipe outs that come from trying to push each manouvre.
You see better surfers, surfing and doing full turns in hollow and steep waves , they are not limited by the board.
Going short will, Limit the number of waves you catch, it will require you to take off in a steep part of the wave, if you can’t organise that on long, you are going to be caught short.

Rail setting making strong turns is much needed for short boards, skill up go down

[waikikikichan]

If you are still only a “advanced-beginner” you are not ready to be on a short(er) board. As you said you have a difficult time making the drop on the 5+ days. On a short every wave will be a step drop, because that is how shortboard need to take off. Nature’s rule, Daniel-San.
So how will you know when you can move down in size ? When you can come Hard of the bottom ( almost to the point of sliding out ) and Crank off the top ....... Back Side. Until then you don’t have the technique, power or timing to move down.
With all the problems you have, I still feel you’ll need a full two more seasons before you should attempt even a 7’6 ish Fun board.

[oldmansurfer]

Diamond head is quite a big area with breaks all over the place so it doesnt feel as crowded as you think it will. But i hate the entry paddle. There are reefs all over the place that sometimes hit your surfboard when the tide is too low.

Yes that is true. When I was there the whole area probably had about 30 surfers but there were many peaks. I got lucky most times and there would be this little left break on the inside that was about head high and had a tubing section. I could get completely covered several times during my usual 2 hour session there. I never figured out why no one else was surfing it. I hear for a while Diamond head became a windsurfing spot. Are there many SUPS out there now?

[Eraserhead]

Diamond head is quite a big area with breaks all over the place so it doesnt feel as crowded as you think it will. But i hate the entry paddle. There are reefs all over the place that sometimes hit your surfboard when the tide is too low.

Yes that is true. When I was there the whole area probably had about 30 surfers but there were many peaks. I got lucky most times and there would be this little left break on the inside that was about head high and had a tubing section. I could get completely covered several times during my usual 2 hour session there. I never figured out why no one else was surfing it. I hear for a while Diamond head became a windsurfing spot. Are there many SUPS out there now?

The last time i was out there, i was surprised how many bodyboarders were out there. There were at least 10-15. On very windy and/or extra large days, i see many wind surfers.

[Eraserhead]

If you are still only a “advanced-beginner” you are not ready to be on a short(er) board. As you said you have a difficult time making the drop on the 5+ days. On a short every wave will be a step drop, because that is how shortboard need to take off. Nature’s rule, Daniel-San.
So how will you know when you can move down in size ? When you can come Hard of the bottom ( almost to the point of sliding out ) and Crank off the top ....... Back Side. Until then you don’t have the technique, power or timing to move down.
With all the problems you have, I still feel you’ll need a full two more seasons before you should attempt even a 7’6 ish Fun board.

Ok that was a nice shock to the head. lol. 2 more seasons probably is the truth as that is one thing i understood about surfing: progression in this sport is way longer than most other sports and the learning curve much much steeper. I have friends here in hawaii though that have started on a shortboard right off the bat and decided to just figure things out on the short but i do want to do it the right way.
So since the board i am on right now is more of a funboard or performance longboard, do you suggest i go to a longer board as my regular. I also have a 9'/23"/3" custom board that i dont use as much.

[Eraserhead]

I would stick with theboard you have and keep upgrading your skills. Getting angled take off working being able to make better and bigger turns.
Take the honourable wipe outs that come from trying to push each manouvre.
You see better surfers, surfing and doing full turns in hollow and steep waves , they are not limited by the board.
Going short will, Limit the number of waves you catch, it will require you to take off in a steep part of the wave, if you can’t organise that on long, you are going to be caught short.

Rail setting making strong turns is much needed for short boards, skill up go down

Just to clarify, rail setting is pushing the rail of the surfboard towards the wave face correct? That is usually accomplished by pulling the opposite rail up? Or is rail setting just a result of taking off at a 45 degree angle and bending the upper body toward the wave while pushing down on your toes?

That is one thing that confuses me. I see some guys taking a drop from the face of the wave then doing a hard bottom turn and some guys are already turned as soon as they pop up and the surfboards rail is parallel to the wave on the higher part of the wave. So there is no bottom turn in that case.

[Eraserhead]

appreciate all the advice. To get this kind of advice from guys who has been surfing for a long time with a great understanding of the physics of surfing is as useful if not more than any lesson or video.

[waikikikichan]

I have friends here in hawaii though that have started on a shortboard right off the bat and decided to just figure things out on the short

And how are they doing ? Are they ripping it up ? I am glad you can think for yourself and do what you feel is right and ask questions if you don't know. They did what they felt, but is it paying off ?

So since the board i am on right now is more of a funboard or performance longboard, do you suggest i go to a longer board as my regular. I also have a 9'/23"/3" custom board that i dont use as much.

Try posting a photo of your ride, back and front. I would still ride your 8' during the summer months, especially with the swells you got right now. But later in the winter you'll need the longboard for those none to 1 days.

Are you bored with your current board and looking for something to change it up ?
Or are you thinking the current board is holding you back from progressing ?
If you don't have a photo, what make and model is it and what fins set up ?

[jaffa1949]

A lot of the answers are like how long is a piece of string?
Waves vary and an angle take is not always nor the only answer, what ever happens to go across the wave you have to set the rail.
The more speed you generate, the more you can lay in turns,
Beginners try to turn using the rail, by leaning with no speed,,blogging themselves down.
I suspect your paddle to catch is slow, you possibly don’t get trim speed even going across the wave,, ( does the wave often out run you?).

You are at a spot through which we all pass!

[oldmansurfer]

When I set the rail I generally use my ankles to push the rail in so front side push the toes down and back side pull the toes up. So I paddle straight but on the last 3 or 4 paddles I turn the board down the line then popping up sometimes I might push the inside rail down so that I already have the rail set but usually I popup and use my ankles to push the rail into the wave. On big waves backside I sometimes move my front foot to the inside rail to help set it but that is likely well beyond your skills level. Yes depending on the wave it is possible to takeoff and not bottom turn but still eventually you will want to bottom turn. Some waves there is no way to avoid a bottom turn because they are too steep.

[Eraserhead]

I have friends here in hawaii though that have started on a shortboard right off the bat and decided to just figure things out on the short

And how are they doing ? Are they ripping it up ? I am glad you can think for yourself and do what you feel is right and ask questions if you don't know. They did what they felt, but is it paying off ?

So since the board i am on right now is more of a funboard or performance longboard, do you suggest i go to a longer board as my regular. I also have a 9'/23"/3" custom board that i dont use as much.

Try posting a photo of your ride, back and front. I would still ride your 8' during the summer months, especially with the swells you got right now. But later in the winter you'll need the longboard for those none to 1 days.

Are you bored with your current board and looking for something to change it up ?
Or are you thinking the current board is holding you back from progressing ?
If you don't have a photo, what make and model is it and what fins set up ?

Haha that is a good point. They are not ripping anything. In fact, i can move my longboard more than they move their shortboard. They just catch the wave, take the drop and just cruise until the wave ends, just like a longboard. In their defense, they come maybe like 2 times a month. They are younger guys that still party on weekends and stuff. A shortboard is cooler and more convenient for them.

I will take some photos of my board. It is a T&C Tanaka board, there are 3 about equal size fins, maybe 6 inches long.

I just feel stuck sometimes on what to work on next. Every now and then i make a bottom turn then i make another turn from the top of the wave, and then i think to myself ok i figured something new. Then i try to repeat that but no luck. So, then i start to think, i am good enough to make moves but the longboard isnt allowing me to. But, you guys are absolutely right, i am nowhere near good enough in terms of my timing,technique and paddling when catching a wave. The occasional more advanced move i make is probably more luck and coincidence than intention and skill. I think you hit the nail in the head. I feel the long board is holding me back from progressing but the reality is i am just frustrated with not being able to do what I see others doing out there. And also even though i am not a golfer, a good analogy could be that i am tired of trying to keep hitting the ball without any goal in the driving range and want to go play 18 holes. I get the fallacy that maybe i am natural golfer and can bypass years of training

[Eraserhead]

A lot of the answers are like how long is a piece of string?
Waves vary and anmangle take is not always nor the only answer, what ever happens to go across the wave you have Tonsetzer the rail.
The more speed you generate, the more you can lay in turns,
Beginners try to turn using the rail, by leaning with no speed,,blogging themselves down.
I suspect your paddle to catch is slow, you possibly don’t get trim speed even going across the wave,, ( does the wave often out run you?).

You are at a spot through which we all pass!

I always thought my paddle is one of my strong points as i swam in a club for a long time but my paddle technique probably is not yet good enough. I do get a decent percentage of waves pass me by. A few guys said i sit too far back on the board. The reason for that is (as you may have guessed) i am so afraid of pearling, pearling feels like the ultimate failure in surfing. That is also probably another reason i am sometimes 1-2 paddles of short of a clean catch because again i am afraid of paddling into a pearl. It is easier to see that when i watch others. They stop their paddle too early and get up only to stall at the top of the peak. So optically, failing by standing up and the wave passing you by looks a lot less of a failure than a pearl where you are tossed around the water and you come up feeling everyone is looking at you. And that is one of the good and bad things about surfing. It digs out all your insecurities,amplifies them and puts in front of your eyes for you to clearly see.

You are very right about the more speed, the easier the turns. I did figure out the aid of speed in pretty much doing anything in surfing. I did not figure out yet though what contributes to some waves where i feel i have speed and some waves where i dont.

[waikikikichan]

It is a T&C Tanaka board, there are 3 about equal size fins, maybe 6 inches long.

I think we've found your problem.

[Blackvans1234]

It is a T&C Tanaka board, there are 3 about equal size fins, maybe 6 inches long.

I think we've found your problem.

Maybe he's just hoping, and praying that they're six inches....

[jaffa1949]

You are suffering from at least two issues
1 the PPPPs poor paddle power pearls, along with fear of humiliation in pearling.
If you don't paddle down into the gravity well of the wave, you will drift up and over the face of the wave.
If you don't match the wave speed the wave will raise the tail of your board pushing the nose into pearl.

If you paddle the board more to the back you are already applying the brakes. Over the back or pearl comes next.
Please don't worry, your level of competence has been weighed as you walk down the beach and paddle out.
Read through the whole swag of pop up,questions are answered the same, smart more effective positioning onmthe board and effective matching and timing with paddling. Get a good paddle , next step,is then good take off.