'Go For It' or 'Your Too Eager'?

[waikikikichan]

In addition to Lebowski's great explanation in EPS/Epoxy and PU/Poly resin board traditional built boards, there's also Molded-epoxy construction. Those are the sandwiched construction without the stringer running down the center of the board ( however some use a thin veneer over the whole deck ). The 7S Superfish II X2 is built using that molded-epoxy sandwich construction. The 7S Superfish 4 ( SF4 ) is built using a construction technique that's new to me. There doesn't seem to be a center stringer but carbon strands laminated to the bottom. The 8'0" X2 has a currently marked down $599 usd retail. The 8'0" SF4 has a $735 usd retail. I would save some money and go with the X2. I don't think you see a difference in ride, but you will in durability of the molded construction.

[CSAWS]

man, I love this forum...thanks for all the information! seriously...I do appreciate it.

I am a big guy at 225 lbs but I am not out of shape...I play ice hockey 2 or 3 times a week at pretty high level (so the game is super fast and majorly competitive and a hell-of-a-workout) plus I surf so I am not rocking a "big" spare tire. I think if i quit skating and i ate better, i would probably be 205-210, still not a skinny 5-10' surfer profile though...lol

Also, I just want to say, I love my long board and I have no plans to retire it...I definitely do not ride the tail very much and generally move to the middle in what feels like a natural motion, once I get on the wave (so I feel like a shuffle a step forward as soon as my feet hit the deck) - I did find that the long board turns with a good amount of lean and some back foot pressure but really turning my head, chest and hips get the board to really turn. again, I was able to do some back-side rail grabs to really get low and lean towards the wave face...that was a good surfing day! i haven't ventured to the nose area yet but that's on my list...honestly the Atlantic swells have been shitty for the last 2 months so bigger waves have been hard to come by.

regarding the SF 8-0, i had $500 come my way out of the blue so i had some "free money" and i went with the X2 epoxy model - supposed to be getting it next week. I have a trip on the books to Oahu in mid-March with my son so i wanted to see if i can get proficient with my new board and take it with me. btw, I also have 12 year old son that is learning to surf and I thought the 8-0 would be something he can progress to as he gets better.

One last comment then i will shut up...i truly believe what all of you are saying about the ocean and trying to read what i being given to you, then react (btw, that is a fundamental concept in hockey...read then react quickly). That is one of the best parts of surfing to me. I just wish we had more consistent swells in NC b/c, as others have already figured out, reading the water and reacting appropriately is fundamental to surfing.

Thanks again for all the insights/comments/advice...truly appreciated. i will try and get some video this week and circle back with a post.

[waikikikichan]

I have a trip on the books to Oahu in mid-March with my son so i wanted to see if i can get proficient with my new board and take it with me.

I also will be back on Oahu mid-March, so lets surf Waikiki together. One word of advice, DO NOT bring your board. It is cheaper and less hassle to rent. There's places that are $100 for 7 days rent with locker. If you bring your own board you'll have to pay oversize baggage fee both waves ( and wave any damages ), normal taxi's wont take your surfboard, then you might have to tip the bellman every time he retrieves your board out of the hotel storage locker because boards are not allowed in the elevator/rooms. I know you feel you'll be attached to your board and want to see what it's capably of doing in Hawaii waves, but trust me, leave it at home.

[CSAWS]

absolutely - lets keep in touch and plan it out as we get closer!

Also, i got my 8-0 today, got it set-up, waxed, etc then hit some 2 footers in glassy conditions this afternoon. also, I set the fins up as a quad vs a tri so I am clearly committed to making this transition as hard as possible (please note the sarcasm).

Holy crap...let me just say, i LOVE this board. Definitely a different paddler than my long board. Not hard as hard to paddle as I thought though (chime in the advice on getting the 8-0 vs the 7-6...lol). i had to back off on my charge b/c i kept getting too far in front of the wave, which generally doesn't end well for me.

i took me 4 or 5 waves to get the feel of the board, balance, paddle etc. but i ended with 9 solid rides by the end of my session. i was able to bottom turn both ways, if you call it bottom turning on 2 footers. was a great experience for my first time out on the new twig.

A few things to work on, at least from my perspective...its more narrow so getting the feet in the right place took a little more precision compared to my long board. Also, on my pop-up, my back foot hit the tail a time or two so i had to lift my back leg up a bit more to clear the tail for my back foot plant. i suspect that will happen more but i am aware of it at least. also, i tried to shuffle up the board to get some speed and ended up putting the nose under water...suggestions welcome on this point. its possible i just put my foot too far forward...but its also possible that i dont need to do that on this board.

overall, in a few sessions, i feel like it will quickly become a favorite board for me. now just need some swell to show up NC!

[oldmansurfer]

Stick to quads. I think people who prefer thrusters learned on thrusters but if you learn on a quad you will most likely wonder why everyone doesn't use a quad (can you tell I use quads?). Finding the right spot on the board for whatever situation takes some time. If you are pearling either it's the wrong place or more likely you were there too long and needed to step back. Some times you just need to put more pressure on your front foot without moving or move and then put pressure on your front foot temporarily. I haven't rode extremely short boards but even the pros move their feet a bit for speed. The question is did you need to get speed? If so on a two foot wave mostly you are relegated to getting forward on the board but don't worry there is a sweet spot on your board that gives you maximum speed most of the time and you will find it then the pearling won't be a problem. It is possible on a steep two foot wave to do quick up and down trim turns for speed. I ride my 8 foot board like a longboard on small waves and like a shortboard on bigger waves

[dtc]

I find that if you are used to rounded nose long boards, there is a tendency when switching to pointier nosed boards (like your new board) to weight the front foot too much. it doesnt matter on the long board - indeed, at times you need to weight your front foot quite heavily. But on a pointier nose, the nose just goes under the water as you found. So that is just an adjustment to be made. You still need to weight the front foot as old man says, and on an 8ft there will be times when you might even want to shuffle forward (or back). But the weight changes are more subtle as boards get smaller (or, putting it another way, there is less margin for error if you get it wrong - on a big board, weight it too much forward or back and you can get away with it, on a shorter board and its all over). As with foot placement, speed of pop up and so forth - the shorter the board, the less margin for error

Glad you are enjoying the board!

[CSAWS]

All,

just a quick post on my 8-0 7S experience...what a great transition board for me. love it. you guys may recall I went from a 9-6 to the 8-0 a few months ago. so after leaning how to paddle it and getting my timing dialed in, i am catching lots of waves, turning it well (both front side and backside) and is my go-to board now. i am really starting to focus on seeing down the line and starting to s-turn, attempting to pump for speed, and aiming for different spots on the wave in front of me. its a whole new set of challenges but i am having fun learning the next level of skill.

all this said, I am getting the feeling that this board is a little boaty. I heard that term a few months ago and now think I am beginning to understand what it means. Its not that the board doesn't catch waves or its hard for me to turn, its just that its starting to feel slower than when I first started surfing it. I may be using the term incorrectly but I think boaty might be a good characterization of where I am at with this board. don't get me wrong, its still super fun to ride and I am catching tons of waves.

I am thinking now that after another 6 months on this board (so the rest of summer and winter), I am probably going to try and move down to a 6-10 or a 7-0, like a Hypto Kypto or similiar shape. I know that it will be resetting the clock again on my wave counts but i think i would like to try and move to what might be a faster board.

anyway, thanks for reading and comments welcome!

[dtc]

Good to hear and for the feedback

My thoughts are

- a shorter board isnt necessarily 'faster', indeed smaller boards may be slower, because the smaller volume means there isnt as much 'thrust' from the wave. However, that is offset because a longer board has more drag. So its not absolutely the case that a shorter board is faster; but its true that shorter (and narrower) boards make it easier to create your own speed eg through pumping and maybe sharper turns (thus more able to use the face and gravity). So shorter boards require more work, particularly in smaller waves.

- rocker in particular has an effect on speed, although the 7S I think has fairly flat nose rocker so you may not be able to get much advantage by a different design. Rail and bottom contours are also important

- you probably feel the board is slower because you are better. I like the analogy of learning to drive - initially going 30 mph is scary and you are constantly on alert. But after a while you are going at 80 mph and singing along to the radio and wondering why the speed limit has to be so low. Same with surfing - there is a lot going on, but your brain starts to process much of it automatically rather than consciously. So you have more time and less to worry about. Things seems to slow down. This is good - but not the board's fault

- although I have no personal experience, the general consensus seems to be that the hypto is a fantastic board when its under 6ft, but over 6ft (ish) its a short board design that has been blown up without any consideration of changes required to deal with it being a much larger board. But it may still suit you. Or you can get a smaller version of your 7S, or one of the Firewires or heaps of other choices

- that said, as long as your next step in boards is reasonable (and going from 8ft to 7ft I think is fine, although some might suggest a slightly smaller jump), then by all means do it.

So...go for it. But praise yourself for the 'slowness', dont blame the board

[CSAWS]

thx for the note - trying to better understand rocker. rocker is the curve of the board, right, so more rocker (i.e. more "curve" from nose to tail) would have less friction, right? I know more rocker helps on the drop in hollow/steeper waves but I didn't realize that it also was a component of board speed (I am still learning hydro-dynamics...lol)

I have been looking at the Firewire Dominator - they sell that up to 6-10 with 55 liters of volume. I hadn't thought about a shorter 7S but I am now. Also, I really do like my 8-0 7S, its a great surfboard and I have no complaints whatsoever.

I guess I am just debating in my own mind all the trade-offs of learning how to generate speed. many, many factors to consider...rocker, volume, skill, overall board shape, the waves that I ride normally...I need an excel spreadsheet to factor all this together...lol

[saltydog]

I think more rocker means a less level, flat surface to plane across the top of water, so it needs more force to move. In addition, different designs have different rocker shapes and placement that affects the way the board rides. I have 2 longboard of near identical dimensions (8'6 x 21.5 x 3) but one with more nose rocker, the other with more tail rocker. The one with a significant nose rocker is so much more work to paddle and needs bigger waves to shine.

Board design is such a complex and interesting topic!

[dtc]

Here are two discussions of rocker - the first more simple and the second more technical

https://zaksurfboards.com/our-articles/ ... rd-rocker/


http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/2350 ... f0221997c/

Essentially, nose rocker creates drag ie harder to paddle, harder to pick up speed. At faster speeds (on the wave), more rocker generally allows for tighter turns (and the increased drag can help control speed in powerful waves). Lower rocker = faster paddling, earlier catching of waves

However the vast majority of surfers should look for a flat/low rocker; they don’t need a highly rockered board. It’s not the case that more rocker = less nose diving*; nose diving is due to paddling slowly and more rocker makes this worse (note: a touch more tail rocker helps prevent perling, because you can ‘tilt’ the board nose up a bit more with body weight just at the right moment)

*Im talking here about perling/nose diving when catching a wave. More rocker will be helpful in preventing nose diving when you are heading down the face of the wave (after catching it) because the curve of the board fits into the curve of the wave. Here we are talking total rocker ie nose, mid and tail - not just a nice nose flip (and...when surfing often the nose is out of the water anyway so not really relevant).

However, with a flatter rocker you just have to angle the board across the face a bit more ie more rocker helps vertical surfing (going 90deg up and down the face) or on very steep waves (some reef breaks). If you aren’t vertically surfing or are surfing beach or point breaks, then more nose rocker is almost always uneccessary or detrimental.

You need a bit, of course, but more is not better.

Most mid length boards today have low rockers

[Tudeo]

I have been looking at the Firewire Dominator - they sell that up to 6-10 with 55 liters of volume.

I had the Dominator 6'6, 45L. It's a great board for smaller and weaker waves. If the waves get shoulder high and up, it sits too high on the water and it gets hard to control. Also taking off on better waves is tricky because the wide tail generates so much instant speed it's hard to popup in time.

[saltydog]

I have been looking at the Firewire Dominator - they sell that up to 6-10 with 55 liters of volume.

I had the Dominator 6'6, 45L. It's a great board for smaller and weaker waves. If the waves get shoulder high and up, it sits too high on the water and it gets hard to control. Also taking off on better waves is tricky because the wide tail generates so much instant speed it's hard to popup in time.

That explains a lot about my Walden Compact Disc at 6'8 with the volume of mid to high 40s' L. It's a fun board for early fall and late spring after/before having to take out a log exclusively for the summer, but when the quality of the waves is better, it often becomes too fast during the take off for me to pop up. Of course if I'm better skilled it can be overcome... but I can always blame the board for my shortcoming

[CSAWS]

a quick post on recent surfing

I have the Dominator in my quiver now and took it out in an unexpected ground swell that came through and generated 3 to 5 foot conditions. the new board paddles great...its like a sports car compared to my longer boards...turns on a dime to position for waves...very light and very maneuverable when I am paddling so I feel very good about working the board to get set-up to catch waves.

however, after my first two drop attempts, I noticed one of my FCS II fins went AWOL...such a bummer. An $85 lesson: use the freaking screws to hold the fins in when using FCS II fin boxes and DO NOT rely on the compression spring to hold the fins in...after a quick trip to the surf store (and a few bucks out of my wallet), I now have a fin set up that will not dislocate from my board. Unfortunately the swell was short lived so I reverted back to my 8-0 7S for the smaller conditions.

Later in the week, I was able to get a ride to an uninhabited island called Masonboro Island that generally has a better wave compared to Wrightsville Beach, where I normally surf. I took both the 7S and the Dom but ended up only using the 7S. But, something happened that I have yet to see in my surfing progression...I saw a barrel forming on the wave and I was in great position to try and get into it...however, I over steered the 7S and dug the rail too deep into the face...that was like locking-up the breaks...bye, bye barrel. Still, super stoked that I even had (and recognized) the chance!

I need to figure out how to turn as soon as I drop into a wave, vs setting up for a bottom turn to get back up the face. I feel like if I was turning, right when I am popping up (or immediately after my feet plant), I would have had a 70/30 chance to hit that little barrel that was forming.

regardless, it was a great week for surfing...thanks for reading!

[oldmansurfer]

If the wave is really steep I turn my board right before I popup and shove the inside rail into the wave right after I popup so that when I reach the bottom the board is ready to turn as soon as possible. The other part of this is to turn before you get into the flats if possible if not then as soon as possible after that. When you pull up into a tube you don't try to get too high a maximum of where the wave starts to get really steep (not higher unless you have the right board and skills)

[Big H]

Pop up while looking down the line and keep looking down the line......you'll go there like it was magic.....gotta look at the right place though.......sometimes I pick out a landmark that will put me on the right line and when paddling I look up and catch the landmark and keep my eyes on that line.

[CSAWS]

Gents - quick update - the waves here have been waist to chest size the last couple of days so I have been able to take out the 610 Dom. WOW, I absolutely LOVE this board. so, so different than my 7S, but in a great way (and btw, I still love the 7S). i thought i would have longer "break-in" period transitioning to it but its been a much shorter learning curve than i thought.

it is sooo fast and maneuverable and its very easy to paddle. also, on steeper/hollower waves, I get would get tossed over the handle bars most of the time on my 7S but the Dom just surfs right down the face like a champ...crazy fun. Sometimes I feel like I am "waiting" for the board to get to the bottom now before my first turn...I am going to start trying my first turn mid-face next time I go out, and will put to use the good advice you guys are providing.

Thanks again for reading!