Backside too turn critique.

[Onelove]

I struggle backside, particularly with hard top turns. Please give me backside turn mechanical flaw 1 to fix.

You will see it was strong offshores as I had to work like crazy to stay in it.

[oldmansurfer]

Some waves just don't let you do hard top turns or bottom turns for that matter. I don't think that is the kid of wave to work at hard top turns. But if you want to add a little oomph to your turns on that kind of wave then you need to get down the wave quickly which means point the nose more down the face than to the side lean forward to get the nose down and extend you legs as you drop down then as you get to the bottom rapidly crouch and start to turn. The crouching adds force into the board to generate speed from the turn. Then you need to get into weighting down the wave and hard turn at bottom (as hard as you can) and then unweighting hard turn at top (as hard as you can) and repeat probably need to fade back into the power of the wave off the top turn. Still I think steeper waves are needed to do harder turns. I think my one main criticism would be you need to be leaning more forward going down the wave.

[Onelove]

Thanks old man. Yeah, not a great wave for big powerful turns, but my issue is there regardless and I think that was the best video I had.

I’m actually really good at turning all the way back off the top and going frontside after starting backside, but just no good at the snap. I’m right there, just something holding me back.

Frontside I can throw a little spray and yank the nose back down the face. I’m still only 18 months on a short board so hopefully it’s just a matter of more reps.

[waikikikichan]

like OMS said, it's not really a wave to do hard turns off the lip, but a person with the right skills could do more. The way you're "approaching" the maneuver is off/wrong. In your mind you are probably saying ( and asked on the forum ) "oh, I wanna hit the lip harder and harder". It's not so much the HOW ( which you seem to know some basics ) but more the WHY and the WHEN to do the how. You seem to be doing the motions just to do it without feeling and listening to what the wave is saying. I see a lot of swinging/flailing of the arms but no real outcome at the board. Look again at your video and just focus on your CHEST. Especially on your last hit, there's a quick jab by your front arm, but the chest never moves. I see your back arm is just trying to counter balance or keep you from falling, it should be coming across your chest off the bottom turn, and ripping back right before the apex.
My advice, slow it down. Gradually go from swerves to weaves to turns ups and turns down to tops turns to off the lips.

[waikikikichan]

I’m still only 18 months on a short board

And prior to being on that shortboard, what type of board were your riding and for how long on that ?

[oldmansurfer]

A good bottom turn is what you need to set up a good top turn. I would work on that. Get the board down the face rapidly and back up vertically. It seems to me easier to do a vertical backside turn as opposed to a frontside turn because going backside you have to rotate your body to see where you are going so it is ready for the turn however frontside you need to rotate it just for the turn.

[Onelove]

like OMS said, it's not really a wave to do hard turns off the lip, but a person with the right skills could do more. The way you're "approaching" the maneuver is off/wrong. In your mind you are probably saying ( and asked on the forum ) "oh, I wanna hit the lip harder and harder". It's not so much the HOW ( which you seem to know some basics ) but more the WHY and the WHEN to do the how. You seem to be doing the motions just to do it without feeling and listening to what the wave is saying. I see a lot of swinging/flailing of the arms but no real outcome at the board. Look again at your video and just focus on your CHEST. Especially on your last hit, there's a quick jab by your front arm, but the chest never moves. I see your back arm is just trying to counter balance or keep you from falling, it should be coming across your chest off the bottom turn, and ripping back right before the apex.
My advice, slow it down. Gradually go from swerves to weaves to turns ups and turns down to tops turns to off the lips.

Yes, thank you!

I was definitely fighting to stay in these waves, and I would immediately try to swing to the top once a little speed was created.

Absolutely I was trying to anticipate sections to hit the top, and my arm not coming across is fact, and makes sense.

I just know this was not smooth. Reaching right arm across makes sense.

Thanks again.

[Onelove]

I’m still only 18 months on a short board

And prior to being on that shortboard, what type of board were your riding and for how long on that ?

9’8 log for 1 year

7’6 fun for like 4.

I went couple months on short board just trying to make the drop, finally got serious about conditioning, now I’ve been down the line for like 15 months. My frontside definitely developing faster.

I’m an older learner though. 38 now.

[Onelove]

It seems to me easier to do a vertical backside turn as opposed to a frontside turn because going backside you have to rotate your body to see where you are going so it is ready for the turn however frontside you need to rotate it just for the turn.

I get that, and on that initial drop on a steep wave I actually get to the top a lot easier backside.

However, when I go backside and really weight that pad I feel awkward and off balance. Frontside I feel much more comfortable. Does all this make sense? Any sense ? Same on skateboard too.

[oldmansurfer]

when I learned to surf long ago I much preferred going frontside and even learned to switch stance so that I could always go frontside. However I learned some tricks/maneuvers backside and found myself outperforming other surfers on my backside while they were frontside so that desire to go frontside faded. I quit surfing for 12 years and restarted and immediately my backside bottom and top turns were better than my frontside turns and I spent 90% of my time going frontside. I am sure that my backside surfing looked better than it was. On some days I am sure I looked like I knew what I was doing however it was the only way I could surf backside, making a hard bottom turn and the smacking the lip because I lacked the skill to do anything else. Now I have a more tame approach where I pick and choose when I am going to do a vertical turn and smack the lip. It took me 3 years at 30 minutes a week to get where I felt my frontside had caught up. I still prefer frontside slightly but almost not significantly because if I am at the peak and it seems the left is better I will go left no question.

[saltydog]

However, when I go backside and really weight that pad I feel awkward and off balance. Frontside I feel much more comfortable. Does all this make sense? Any sense ? Same on skateboard too.

Some of that should feel more natural as you go backside often. I ride backside for 95% of the time so going frontside feels a little off to me. I can't make as sharp a turn either. With backside, our ankles can only bend so far backwards so lowering the center of gravity by bending the knees more helps me.

[dtc]

My two comments

- you need a little more speed. You mostly are letting the wave push you, which is fine on a big board but doesn’t always work with a shorter board. Try pumping your board - look at the pros, they are always pumping on smaller waves, build up speed, then do their manoeuvre

- going backside, make a conscious effort to move your back foot around so it’s not pointing at 3 o’clock, but more at 1 o’clock. This will open up your chest and make you more front on, which lets you see the face easier than screwing your head around and putting you off balance

[oldmansurfer]

I just looked at your video again and I think this....you are going too much down the line and getting too far in front of the wave. You need to drop more to the bottom and come back up vertically. You are doing little speed turns and you need to do bigger turns. It may be the angle of the video is confusing because I am not used to the drone view. This is a weak wave and requires that you stay close to the power point of the wave to do maneuvers. That is why you are stalling at the top because you are too out in front of the wave. So you need to drop all the ways to the bottom and aim your top turn closer to you and less down the line and come straight back down to get speed. The wave will probably get in front of you but you have to count on your bottom turn to get you back in front of the wave for the next maneuver.

[Onelove]

Old man, I feel ya on this. I have been thinking that myself lately. I get up in front of the curl right from the takeoff going left. Going right I use 100% bottom turn. Going left I usually angle heavily and drop in to a trim that is often too high of a line . I regularly outrun lefts. This particular wave in the video doesn’t end for an eternity, but my common beachbreaks I’ll speed out past the wave and have to come all the way back to the curl—when I haven’t already run too far off.

I got a bit of advice about my right arm crossing my body earlier in the thread too. If I am closer to the curl and power (speed and stability) I would be more balanced and able to turn more aggressively.

A buddy I surf with told me my top turn efforts are better than this on our typical waves, but he also sees I have the problem, but just doesn’t really break down what the problem is like you guys have. Even when I do successfully come off the top, I’m still not skilled enough to continue with the wave.

Also, I’m not knocking that wave, it’s an incredible wave,but it was small that day and very weak. Really should have been on longboard, but I wanted to work on—you guessed it—top turns going left and I knew I would have lefts for days.

I am going to keep these things in the front of my mind, and consciously try to implement them, but I’m definitely not going to stress and keep having fun. I’m too damn old and grateful to get the opportunity to surf not to. I just feel like this is kind of my next challenge, and I think it is obtainable.

[kookextraordinaire]

Is might just be me in my cantankerous old age, but whenever I see a drone buzzing around the line up I'm seized by an irrepressible urge to undo my leash, dive to the bottom, retrieve a rock, surface, and attempt to knock the infernal thing out of the sky. Surfing is an escape for me, as I'm sure it is for most people, and I find drones intrusive and distracting.

Anybody else share this abhorrence of drones?

[Onelove]

I can see your point. My kid likes flying it. Most people in the lineup joke around about it, and many have never seen one/think it’s kind of cool.

Regardless, it was fun to get some memories of our trip, and it’s good for exactly what I posted in this thread. It’s only up little me 30 total minutes due to battery life anyway.

I far prefer a drone to an SUP.

[dtc]

In terms of going straight and bottom turning, or angling immediately etc, staying in the pocket, the latest surf simply podcast has a v good discussion on when to do this. Podcast 58; it was in answer to a listener question. From memory I would guess around an hour or hour 10 min into the podcast. Well worth a listen