The right way to teach surfing is ........

[Beginner77]

Other sports don't have beginners playing in the same field at the same time as advanced players. Other sports have specific rules and specific goals with which to measure your improvement. Surfing has a little but goals vary widely. Other sports are mostly about competition whereas surfing is mostly not about competition. Don't know the ratio of surfers who never go past riding whitewater. Imagine a downhill skier who has to deal with beginners messing around on the slope. Or a professional basketball game where non professional kids run across the court and shoot balls at the net during the game or in practice sessions.

Downhill skiers have to cope with beginners on the slopes all the time. Not in competition, but in practise (which obviously outnumbers competitive hours by a huge ratio). Racing drivers also test and race with beginners on a daily basis. Neither sport has this "anti-beginner" problem.

[dtc]

It’s more like motor racing. If you have a group going at 250km/h, a group going at 150km/h and a group bunny hopping at 30km/h and weaving around the track, then the faster people get upset

But I think you are being a bit sensitive. Sure there are the chest beating aggro guys (always guys, usually around 20 yrs old), but what upsets most surfers is not someone’s skill level, it’s beginner surfers creating danger by refusing to learn the rules of etiquette and safety before heading out. Try going to a golf course in hiking boots and hitting the ball backwards and see what happens.

Understand where to be and where not to be, how to keep your board from hitting others, what wave is yours and what isn’t - then you will be perfectly fine

[Beginner77]

It’s more like motor racing. If you have a group going at 250km/h, a group going at 150km/h and a group bunny hopping at 30km/h and weaving around the track, then the faster people get upset

But I think you are being a bit sensitive. Sure there are the chest beating aggro guys (always guys, usually around 20 yrs old), but what upsets most surfers is not someone’s skill level, it’s beginner surfers creating danger by refusing to learn the rules of etiquette and safety before heading out. Try going to a golf course in hiking boots and hitting the ball backwards and see what happens.

Understand where to be and where not to be, how to keep your board from hitting others, what wave is yours and what isn’t - then you will be perfectly fine

I hope so, yes. I just felt I should mention it as I know from chatting to other beginners that it does put people off. I do quite a few sports and have never heard of this tendency in any of those other sports.

With regard to motor racing, I've competed in this for many years at an amateur level. Here in the UK we have around 1200 license holders and a few get killed each year, with many more injured. Surfing has 1-2 deaths per 100,000 participants worldwide, so I don't buy the reasoning quoted earlier about the common dislike of beginners being due to danger. I suspect it's simply down to the number of people surfing and the availability of good waves and good wave days.

[jaffa1949]

Your last sentence has a certain truth, crowds and shortage of waves, but look at spots like lots of Bali and the Superbank and the surf zone is an ongoing car smash. This coupled with the advertising free and easy lifestyle blurb makes people OK with paddling out in areas they have no business being in.
Another point to consider, many experienced surfers have often had to perform rescues on people who claimed their right to be in harms way.
Ideally all should be welcome but we are dealing with human egos in a hierarchical situation of some consequence.
A question for everyone who drives surfs or skis etc, is your personal vocabulary free of expletives and or kook names when your safety is put at risk by ignorance or stupidity?

Mine's not and I sometimes share it loudly!

[oldmansurfer]

Well Beginner77, surfing is a different sport and perhaps there is something to what you say but there are reasons for it. Surfing is not like the rest of sports even though you fail to recognize that. The question is what do the advanced surfers do about all the unskilled surfers who make their sport difficult? Welcome them? Give them some waves so that instead of a wave ever 30 minutes they have a wave every hour? I don't know what the solution is. Back when I learned there were no leashes which meant the beginners had to go swim for their boards all the time and this kept the lineup clear for good periods of time. It also discouraged people from learning to surf because it was too difficult. That made for simpler surfing. Ahhh the good old days. Maybe surfing is just not meant for everyone. I don't like dealing with newbies however I don't have to deal with them much because I surf in conditions that surfers of any skill level don't seem to want to surf in. If I do surf with newbies I try to laugh right along with them and use my greater knowledge about the waves to sneak a few good waves from them or I just go somewhere else.

[waikikikichan]

Downhill skiers have to cope with beginners on the slopes all the time. Not in competition, but in practise .

So then why is the competitive skier in the bunny hill area practicing ? Ski/snowboard has levels/courses to stay within for your ability.
Bunny hill
Green
Blue
Black Diamond
Double Black Diamond

Surfing does not.

I’m in Waikiki now, there are World Champion’s surfing right next to newbies who have never seen the ocean before. There’s no signs that say Green or Blue. Places like Pipeline, there’s no signs either, there’s a hierarchy.

[Beginner77]

Downhill skiers have to cope with beginners on the slopes all the time. Not in competition, but in practise .

So then why is the competitive skier in the bunny hill area practicing ? Ski/snowboard has levels/courses to stay within for your ability.
Bunny hill
Green
Blue
Black Diamond
Double Black Diamond

Surfing does not.

I’m in Waikiki now, there are World Champion’s surfing right next to newbies who have never seen the ocean before. There’s no signs that say Green or Blue. Places like Pipeline, there’s no signs either, there’s a hierarchy.

Most surfing beginners will be in the white water. By the time they get to the line-up and catching green waves they’ll be the equivalent of a skier who’s on most of those slopes. I know from your posts you get beginners out there quite soon, but certainly here in the UK that’s unusual; our surf schools teach in the white water for quite some time. I did a week’s sirfing course last year and we went through a number of different skills in the white water and never ventured out back once.

I don’t wish to argue, I just wanted to point out a couple of things that put people off surfing. It stands out compared to the other sports people may try. It may of course be justified, I’m not in a position to judge that cause I’m a beginner, but it just comes as a surprise to most surfing beginners if they’ve been used to other sports without this issue.

[waikikikichan]

Most surfing beginners will be in the white water. By the time they get to the line-up and catching green waves they’ll be the equivalent of a skier who’s on most of those slopes. I know from your posts you get beginners out there quite soon, but certainly here in the UK that’s unusual; our surf schools teach in the white water for quite some time.

I don’t wish to argue, I just wanted to point out a couple of things that put people off surfing.

You / We are not arguing, we are discussing and sharing points of view from our own unique experiences. This is an international forum and its great to hear views from non-tropical locations such as yours.
In Waikiki, we don’t do standing jump or much white water take-offs. Most newbies don’t last 45 minutes. That why I was surprised when someone commented they did a two hour surf by themselves and an extra two hour easily. Different place, different conditions, different riding, different mindset.
Like I said, right now you don’t understand or realize the things “that put off” people about surfing. When you go from being run over to running over........ then you’ll understand. It’s not a right of passage, or hazing or whatever. One day it’ll click and you’ll get it. Surfing is what it is. Some good some bad. Such is life.

[RinkyDink]

I don’t wish to argue, I just wanted to point out a couple of things that put people off surfing. It stands out compared to the other sports people may try. It may of course be justified, I’m not in a position to judge that cause I’m a beginner, but it just comes as a surprise to most surfing beginners if they’ve been used to other sports without this issue.

The aggressive, hyper-masculinized aspect of the sport is the part I hate most about surfing. And I really do hate that aspect with a passion. It's probably the main reason I quit surfing for such a long time when I was younger. I can't fault anybody for rejecting the sport for that reason. There are ways to avoid that side of it, but you need to work on getting away from the crowd. If it's any consolation, I think women entering the lineup has really improved the vibe in the water. The other thing to remember is that the Walmart social norms that currently govern people's morality are carried into the lineup with all the other ugly aspects of contemporary consumer culture. You either have to ignore that side of the sport or find a way to work around it.

[RinkyDink]

The aggressive, hyper-masculinized aspect of the sport is the part I hate most about surfing.[/quote]

To be honest though, I haven't had any serious problems in the lineup since I restarted surfing. I think northern California is a little more mellow in that regard. When I mention bad vibes in the water, I'm usually thinking about surfing down in southern California during my youth.

[jaffa1949]

Right now there quite a few women in the line up who surf better than I do, immediately cancels out any male silverback tendencies I might have

There a a couple of women. in the crew that can out aggress most of the guysthe shock value of their potty mouths is horrendous!

Seasonal surf zones with hordes of invaders doesn't soften the line up much either, witnncams and forecasts the days of knowing your local giving few surfers in the line up days have gone.

[oldmansurfer]

Most of the surfers I see male or female are laid back mellow peeps.....except for some of the SUP guys

[RinkyDink]

Most of the surfers I see male or female are laid back mellow peeps.....except for some of the SUP guys

I just got back from Costco where I discovered a large stack of 9'6" SUPs in the aisle. Somebody else mentioned the Wavestorm SUPs and I didn't grasp the significance of it. I do now. Let's cross our fingers and hope we don't suddenly wake up to an army of Wavestorm SUP riders down at the local surf break

[jaffa1949]

Eeeeeeeeeek Rinki the Costco apocalypse, much of the population woes in surfing come when corporate entities that have no surfing roots decide they can promote the lifestyle and cash in!

I await the day when surfing is no longer fashion material. ( could be a long time).

[jaffa1949]

The Solution Surf School teaching the red coloured students all,the right things.
Lesson 1.

[Beginner77]

In Waikiki, we don’t do standing jump or much white water take-offs. Most newbies don’t last 45 minutes. That why I was surprised when someone commented they did a two hour surf by themselves and an extra two hour easily. Different place, different conditions, different riding, different mindset.

That's interesting. As I think you know, here in the UK everyone starts in the white water, wading out to waist to chest deep and then riding the waves in from there. Yes, in terms of time, you could pretty much do that all day. Most lessons at most schools are two hours. I've learnt at three different schools and it's identical with all of them.

From the whitewater it's normal to teach firstly riding in on your belly, then popping up, then if you've booked a block of lessons and go beyond the first two hours, adjusting your weight fore/aft and finally turning. If you want to progress beyond that to green waves, we then come on to my second gripe in my first post on this thread: most of the schools here just offer the white water sessions for beginners in groups, with expensive 1-1 tuition needed to learn green/unbroken waves. I know of only one school that have group lessons for progressing beyond that to learn green waves, duck diving, turtle rolling, etiquette etc, and they only run two or three times a year. In the UK at least, perhaps that explains the problems you and others have with beginners - there aren't lessons teaching that sort of thing. In the other sports I listed where beginners mix with advanced level students, there are affordable lessons from beginner right up to competition standard.

Do you know why surfing is taught differently where you are?

[jaffa1949]

Britain’s beaches have long flat tidal areas and so a lot of beaches only white water riding is accessible, Hawaii has no continental shelf or tidal flat, similarly Indonesia and most great surf destination have their waves groomed and shaped by coral reefs or prominent headlands.
This give the waves a direction breaking quality rather than the whole wave front moving across the flats.
Both Hawaii and Indo also have amazingly long fetch to send wave trains without the storm that produced them.
There is a whole lot of bathymetry that blesses these spots. The standard surf wave in Hawaii and Indo is better shaped, more powerful and the surf can go from near flat to double overhead quickly and dangerously.

Australia and the American coasts offer a range between what you are used to and the more powerful stuff.

Because of the local conditions the local surfers develop style and skill influenced by their peer beach group..

Sadly many surf schools are just a money making exercise without real care of learning needs.
The good ones are great but a common policy considers that if you have caught or been pushed on a wave to shore and stood up, then you have surfed
Heaven help all concerned when they get out beyond the break, with only that “tuition”.
.you however are thinking beyond that norm and that will open up things a lot more for you!

[oldmansurfer]

I think there aren't much advanced lessons because the learning rates are often so slow that no progress will be made during multiple lessons and people aren't willing to pay for no progress. But in reality I have only a tiny clue because I never needed any lessons but notice what others say about learning to surf here on this forum.

[PunaTuna]

Being a kook is just part of it in my opinion. I’m a kook. It’s like a right of passage in a sense, be it a noob, greenhorn, whatever. Just let it roll off your back and keep at it...but do heed their advice. Respect and safety is at the root of it all. Respect for other’s safety or you might find yourself getting dirty lickins rather than a couple expletives yelled at you.

[waikikikichan]

Do you know why surfing is taught differently where you are?

Easy answer ......... RESPECT. Respect for the ocean. For example, as little children growing up in Hawaii, the very first thing we are taught is .......
" NEVER TURN YOUR BACK TO THE OCEAN ".