Board selection - please help.

[Monkey4450]

I'm sitting in my office and instead of working trying to select the proper board to order. I'm a 34 yr old man, 6'2, 180 lbs, strong and in very good physical shape. I will be surfing small beach breaks 90% of the time.

In the past, poor board selection (my first board was too gunny and narrow, too little volume) has hampered my progress (as has a horrible shoulder dislocation caused by a wipeout 7 years ago which took years to repair but is now relatively stable).I can catch waves fairly consistently in good conditions and ride along the face for a bit, but I am still trying to learn how to angle and trim properly to maximize my ride on the green. Some experience snow and skateboarding as well but I am not sure that has helped if I'm being honest.

The usual advice reg. boards is go big, or forget learning anything. However, I have not found that going very big has helped me, it has always been about getting enough float for me, not length in isolation. My very best day out ever was on a 6'4 rental board, probably at least 3 inches thick. I could turn, ride the face and felt it was every bit as easy to paddle as a funshape. Fun shapes (while on vacation have ridden 7.9 and 7.4 Bic rentals several times and enjoyed myself) have also been easier for me to control than longboards. That being said, I have ridden proper long boards and had lots of fun with that too. IMO longboards are every bit as "cool" as shortboards - please don't think I am out to look cool with a potato chip under my arm, at my age you are (or should be) past that sort of nonsense. I am thoroughly uncool already and couldn't care less about that.

I am just looking to get the optimal board for me, which it seems to me is of medium length (somewhere between 6.4 and 8,), wide and thick with a low rocker. I am thinking it should have about 60 litres of volume or more. Money is not an issue - I am buying this to keep for a long time and I don't care if it's 500 or a 1000 USD. I just want the optimal board.

Now for the question: Say I want to go for a shorter board than is usually recommended given my personal preference and that I'm going to ride small waves only: Would a (custom big version) Channel Islands Average Joe be a good choice (say 6,8 x 24 x 3 3/8)? Thats a sixty litre board, and broad as all get out. Or should I think about other models, e.g. the Waterhog and go to say 7.6 x 23 x 3? Or both? What do you suggest? Would appreciate any input or shared experiences.

PS: On a related note, has anyone had good experiences (or bad) with Studer Surfboards? I am going to Bali for two months next spring and ordering acustom from Studer (either the Torpedo or the Fun Board or both) before I go is an option. Would be practical to pick it up there instead of hauling a board halfway across the globe.

[drowningbitbybit]

say 6,8 x 24 x 3 3/8 ...

*shudder*
The first one would surf horribly. If you're buying a board to keep for a while, you'll want to progress with it. A board with those thick, wide dimensions will surf like an airbed. Might be okay for catching waves while you're learning, but you'll soon outgrow it.
Volume is good, volume is the way to go, but put it in the right place.

7.6 x 23 x 3?

The next board is closer to the mark - I wouldn't go quite as wide as 23", but that's coming from a shortboard perspective, so let's see what the LBers on here think.

[Monkey4450]

Thanks for the feedback!

[Monkey4450]

Would appreciate input on the required volume and reccmmended dimensions. Based on the first reply here I'm maybe going overboard in that regard?

[dtc]

Everyone graduates to a mid length board sooner or later...its a great choice. I reckon aim for something around 7ft, give or take a few inches. At your height and weight you will still be able to turn them to a much greater extent than your skills can cope with (and mine, I hasten to add - its rare for us part time surfers to be more skillful than our boards). But it will still be not too bad in catching waves.

Probably the two biggest changes to boards over the last 5 or so years has been the growth of short fat groveller boards and the growth of chunky mid length boards (to suit us heavier and slightly older folk). So you are in luck - there is a wide variety of these boards around nowdays that will suit you well. What you will find is that - assuming you are paddle fit etc - the biggest difference with a long board is timing and catching waves (its much harder!). Once up on these boards they are usually pretty stable; not longboard stable but not jittery and skatey and requiring a lot of additional skills

However, you dont want to go too wide and fat. Something like 6,8 x 24 x 3 3/8 I reckon would just skim across the top of the wave, be very hard to dig in the rail. Too 'corky' as they say. And I'm not sure of the benefit - you cant just make a wide and thick board and make it useable - there are limits. No one needs a board that is 24 inches wide, at least no one of your build

Have a look at the following boards (all have websites) for some other options and inspiration:

- firewire Addvance - maybe 6ft10 - a lot of people rave about this board, its probably a bit higher performance
- mccoy nugget - a somewhat left field design but lots of people love them (not sure how available they are in the US other than in the surftech version).
- walden mini magic, 6ft 10 - this is a pretty big board, could be a good safe choice.

There are plenty of others from smaller makers, I just dont know much about them in the US.

Also have a read of the website of Grant Miller (grant miller surfboards). He makes the perfect board for you, but unfortunately he is in Australia. Nonetheless, see his Powerglide (mini mal type - I have one of these and its great, 7ft4) and Waterskate pages and look at those shapes and dimensions. Also have a look at Mark Richard's site and his Flying Saucer. Notice how they have a lot of foam in the middle of the board and chest area (like the Addvance and walden) - making it easier to paddle, the foam is under your chest where your weight is.

Then, to be honest, unless one of the above boards from the bigger manufacturers really grabs you, find a local shaper who specialises in mid length/bigger boards and get him (its probably a him!) to make you one based on your concepts. I dont know about US prices, but in Australia the three boards I mentioned above are all much of a muchness in pricing in comparison to getting one made for you. Dont worry about not being an expert or anything, a good shaper is like a doctor - they are there to help you out and dont worry about you not knowing anything. Thats their job, not yours. And you can probably pick your own colour scheme (which is a lot of fun, but stressful!)

Probably your major task is to decide whether you want a rounded mal type nose (powerglide, mini magic) or a narrower nose (Addvance). Mal nose is more stable, easier paddling and you can fit in more foam into the board. Narrow nose more agile. Low rocker as you say (but perhaps a bit of tail rocker, which is more useful in beach waves).

Anyway, get a mid length if you feel you want one. Dont worry about the 'go long' stuff once you have learnt. If you feel you are capable of going shorter, and want to, then do it (its only people who say 'I've been surfing twice and stood up, should I buy the 5ft7 or the 5ft9 board that annoys everyone!) Dont go too short (under 6ft8, probably 6ft10) but I wouldnt go over 7ft6 if you are fit. 22 inches wide give or take, but it depends on the board shape

Dont get too obsessed about volume (my little bugbear). 50L will be fine.

edit: ooh, see DBB has made some similar comments.

[Monkey4450]

Thanks so much. This forum is awesome.

[Monkey4450]

Took your advice DTC (well, parts of it) and ordered a custom board that ended up fairly close to your recs.

It'll be very similar to what a 6'8 Firewire Addvance would have looked like, but with a squash tail and a little bit less nose rocker. 6'8" x 23" x 3" (52 liters). It'll be quite a while before I get to try it out, but looking fwd to it. Thanks again.

Might also order a Studer Torpedo despite obviously not needing another board (complete sportsgear addict) - that thing looks sweet!

http://www.studersurfboards.com/surfboard/torpedo/

[dtc]

Sounds like a good decision - you getting a custom spray job or just the white? Deciding on colours is almomst as hard as deciding on the board!

Hope it works out - post some pics when it arrives.

The torpedo does look nice. A similar board is the Takayama scorpion (esp the Scorpion II), although they are pretty expensive I think.

[oldmansurfer]

If you want to get another board I would suggest meeting the shaper and talking to him/her about what it is you want to do and what the problems you are having now then let the shaper make a design just for you. Shapers often know exactly what to make for a specific issue you might have. But yeah that torpedo board looks like it would be fun and I am not a nose rider kind of guy.

[Monkey4450]

Thanks dtc and oldmansurfer. I'm not getting a custom spray job - I didn't have anything that I thought would look better than a plain board (I like that look).

What I ordered is not a proper custom board really, since it's a machine shape and the custom input really is just the custom dimensions and the set-up I chose, it's a Channel islands Average Joe, but through some back and forth with Mike at Onboard Industries (will get the board to me in Bali) I decided on the dimensions quoted above rather than the usual ones. Other specs: Epoxy blank, All layers S-glass, squash tail, 5x CI FCS compatible fin set-up (will ride as thruster probably)). Considered gloss finish also but decided against it at the last minute, unsure if I did the right thing there...Thoughts on getting gloss?)

I'm going to go visit the Studer shop once I'm in Bali to see about a Torpedo as well, but I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with my Joe. I'll be staying up by the beach in Seminyak and with a wife and two kids I expect I'll be surfing on Legian Beach/ Seminyak Beach and maybe up to the beach club at Batu Belig and not do much travelling except the odd trip to Balangan maybe.

[dtc]

hey, good choice - I havent surfed the 'average joe' but its one of those boards that feels right under the arm, so to speak. For a certain type of surfer, like me, anyway (a mid lengther)

[waikikikichan]

Search for Ben Aipa Big Boy Sting ( not sure if you can find anymore of the molded epoxy Boardworks, that would be good ont he plane rides ) . My longboard friend has one to use when he goes with his Shorter board friends. I think it's 7'4" ? but its thick , floats and turns. One of the guys he surfs with has a Average Joe. To me, its a average shortboard with rounded off nose and tail edges. To me, I would recommend a wider tail to make up for the missing length. Since you used to skate, how about a mini-simmons wide tail that just a bit taller than normal simmons.

[Monkey4450]

Just got back from 2 months in Bali, surfing virtually every day. My average Joe was fantastic, but I did take my first few sessions on an 8' longboard to ease back in to things. Took a few sessions to get apddle fit again. All in all I was super happy with the board. Paddles very fast, and is much more stable than regular shortboards of similar size. One thing that I felt was a problem though is that steeper take-offs often went sideways on the Joe because of the lack of nose rocker. So next time I go to Bali I may get a board with a little more of that. In decent conditions on mid to high tide with fatter waves, the board was great. When it was very small or very steep, I opted for a longer board, most often a 7'5 rental. Anyway, I'm still a bad surfer, but a hell of a lot better than I used to be. The next step for me is going surfing at home in Norway to not lose all my progress again. Which is going to be quite the challenge...

The board was one beautiful piece of equipment (when I got it - now it's dinged up, discolored etc - it has acquired a certain satisfying patina), and I highly recommend Channel Islands Bali for great service and advice in the process of ordering. Mike at the Seminyak store is a great guy who delivered on time - the board was waiting for me in my hotel when I arrived and he even threw in a CI boardbag and a t-shirt. Finally I highly recommend going to Bali - what a great place. FYI, the airlines still let you take one board for free OUT of Bali as a courtesy as long as you alert them in advance and they're under 7'. My wife and I each took one home without any problems (or dings).

[SaltWaterHeart]

Hey Monkey4450!

I know this is an old thread but I'm curious what you are surfing now. I was looking at similar boards a few months ago, am 33, 6', 195lbs, and in great shape. I had an old 8'4" Channel Islands M13 that I transitioned to from a soft top of the same length (which I taught myself to surf on), but I have progressed pretty quickly having taught myself to surf 2 winters ago and surfing year round and have become extremely proficient in the soft top and was able to do a lot in the M13 but didn't like the length, felt like a boat. So, I started looking and decided after trying some other boards that were shorter that 7'6" was the length that I would have the most fun at while still being able to progress. I got a 6'8" Dominator but after trying it found I need to transition to the shorter length first. I looked at a lot of options and ended up deciding between a Creative Army Huevo and a FireWire Addvance. I thought the swallow tail would be fun and make the tail feel more loose, and it looked like it would be more maneuvable than an 8'+ board, able to paddle well, and practice more high performance maneuvers on. I ended up going with the 7'6" Addvance LFT because the shape of the Huevo is much like my soft top and I wanted the variety. We haven't had the best waves until recently but I've found the Addvance seems to be difficult to paddle into waves with speed. It feels like my Dominator when paddling which I can paddle, just takes more effort but I thought the benefit was supposed to be that it was easier to paddle. Summer waves have been bad though with either sub 2' waves and often with some texture and chop to the water. I'm in northern New England though, so I'm used to making due with whatever swell we get. It feels like a solid 3-4' would be ideal height for the Addvance but we've had a weak summer for waves and now it's hurricane season and the swells are much larger when we get them. I can get barreled, do floaters, trim, cutback, bottom turn and top turn on my 8'4" no problem, but I feel like a beginner on this Addvance and don't seem to get any planing speed to get into the waves even if I paddle like hell. I've stared a thread on positioning but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I'm going to give it more of a chance in better conditions, hopefully ideal one of these days, but I'm starting to feel like maybe the Channel Islands Waterhog or M13 (in the 7' range) would be a better fit for me. We seem to have similar stories and body types from your original thread, so just wondering what has worked for you and if you've tried the Addvance? Thanks!

[Big H]

Tudeo will weigh in I'm sure; he's got a lot of experience with the Addvance. What I've heard about the Addvance (mainly from Tudeo reading here) and what I know about dominators (I've had three in different sizes, from 6', 6'2" & 6'8" and got rid of them all for the same reason - tail too wide for local conditions/too much push -loss of control - feels like surfing a bar of soap on a tile floor in all but the fattest local conditions). I have read here that the addvance is particularly sensitive to body positioning on the board; if you are not in the sweet spot the paddle performance is notably affected. That being said at your size you should have no issue with catching waves on a 7'6" addvance, should be plenty of float. The pulled in tail won't give the assistance the dominator gives in getting in.....that board feels like you have someone pushing you into waves - was easier to catch waves on that 6'8" / 50L dominator than on my high rockered performance longboard 9'2" / 67L. Issue was how the board was under foot and on the wave.

I know that you say that you are in great shape, but all the same....if you are having problems paddling then you need to surf more, get your fitness and paddle fitness up (pushups, pull ups, stretching -unsung but very important for mobility and resulted in better/stronger paddling for me - and more surfing). If you really are paddle fit but have issues, check your board positioning, and work on your paddle technique; watch some paddle technique videos (paddle like you are reaching over a log before putting your hand in the water - high elbows) and work on your wave catching positioning is what I'd recommend. I just spent three months of injury time sidelined and am just back in the water.....my fitness is terrible. But I've been getting plenty of waves mainly because most of the tourist lineup doesn't know where to line up to catch the wave at the local spots that I am intimate with. I sit with them then paddle to where you can actually catch the wave when the set approaches. Doesn't matter what board you have if positioning is poor, and the reverse is true as well.

[SaltWaterHeart]

Thanks for your response. I'm in pretty good shape, lost 70lbs last year and nobody thought I was in horrible shape before. Now, I'm in better cardio shape than anyone at the gym and can stay in the water all day and not tire. I catch more waves than anyone at my local beach and am out there weekly year round which is why it's easier for me to read when the good ones are coming in and where to take off. I glide through the water and have paddled miles up and down the beach on my 8' board which I am super comfortable with and can catch waves from 1' to overhead comfortably with, though it is really meant for trimming. However, I don't think I've consistently found that sweet spot on the Addvance and on the super small days we've had this summer I've taken the 8' out instead, and have only taken the Addvance a handful of times but they haven't been great conditions when I've tried it. I don't typically surf around a lineup unless the tide is up and I have to surf farther up the beach where the tourists go. I surf a section that can be tricky if unfamiliar because of rocks, but I'm familiar and many avoid it because they just go where the other surfers are or fear rocks. I usually have the water to myself where I go which is pretty great. My dilemma is figuring whether to take the 8' board on smallish days when I know I can catch anything and get waves all day on, or try the Addvance and try to figure it out while maybe only catching a couple waves. I get some weeks where I get in the water 2-4 times in the week, so I get a good deal of water time though not everyday, unfortunately. I probably just need to bite the bullet and sacrifice a couple sessions on the 8' board to figure out the Addvance when conditions are good. My positioning isn't an issue in the water, I was referring to possibly being too far up or back on the board when paddling. I took it out yesterday for example in solid conditions and was paddling into 9' waves with offshore wind. It felt at times like the board would get pulled back as I paddle into a wave, haven't really had that issue in smaller conditions though. We've got small conditions in a couple days, 2-3' waves, might take the 8' and the Addvance to try to figure it out better and if it takes too long with too few waves, switch to the 8' and catch a bunch to redeem the session.

I will add that we did get a day or two early in the summer where conditions were better for the Addvance and I didn't have much trouble catching waves with it and had a couple solid rides with it but it was so fast down the line it felt like it was over before it started. I've got a thruster setup with FCS2 Carver fins.

[Big H]

You know your fitness better than anyone else....if it is good it's good......and if you're as great at reading waves as you say, then it's down to paddle technique and on-board positioning. You should be able to catch knee high waves with that board at your weight. I surf a lot but I still always feel I could be more fit, improve my paddle technique and my in water positioning.....no matter where I am in my development in any area (extending beyond surfing into all aspects of living) there is always room to improve.

The problem of feeling pulled back the other day could be down to the strength of the offshores; the Addvance has a big nose and could get held up if the wind was strong enough. Other than that I'd experiment positioning front and back on the board to find the sweet spot.

[Tudeo]

Tudeo will weigh in I'm sure; he's got a lot of experience with the Addvance.

The Add is one of my favourites, but I've got the 6'6" that's the smallest size, I'm 6ft and 165lbs. The 7'6" is the biggest and carries almost 70L, like a 9'6 longboard, I guess that's a whole different beast..

I like how my Add 606 paddles, in clean conditions it paddles really fast and catching waves is very good. Funny thing though I came from a Dominator 6'6", and had the same issues Big H mentioned. But first time I took out the Add I was disappointed how it paddled compared with the Dom. The Dom was an even better paddler but I was focussed on the bigger volume of the Add, expected too much from that it seems.

I think in general a surfboard model has a certain size where the shape works optimal, I think (from my own experience and stories of others) the Add is best as an 6'6.

The only downside for my 6'6 is it's bulkiness, that makes it a bit hard to handle when waves get bigger. But that is from a shortboard perspective. A 7'6 is just a whole different story..