Technique or Board problem?

[Mmock4]

Hey guys!

I'm a relatively new surfer, been going at it for about 5 months now. I get out roughly 4-5 times a week, Age 24, 6'2 194lbs fairly athletic. Got basics down on the Infamous Costco wavestorm, been riding a 10'2 log recently practicing bottom turning, going down the line, weight shifting, cross stepping, and have been catching unbroken waves with a fair amount of success.

My issue: Decided to try out a smaller fun-board shape and picked up a used 7'6 x 22-3/4 NSP off of Craigslist. The board had some chew on the rails and gel-coat damage on the board but other than that the board was in great shape considering the price. Was told it was water-tight, and the guy at the shop said he surfs it frequently and it was great for what I was looking for. Took it out(albeit not on a great day) and tried it out, for some reason the tail just bogs down on take-off, and to actually ride(not sink) I had to stand on the front 1/3 of the board. Even then the tail would sink when I got to a flatter section. Am I not doing something right? Why won't the tail lift? Is it likely the board has taken on water in the tail, and that's what's causing this?

Any help much appreciated!
Thanks- Mark

[oldmansurfer]

A big huge board like a 10'2" longboard is way more forgiving than a 7'6" funboard. You may need to put more pressure forward to keep going but more than that you need to be on steeper waves. The 7'6 inch board is narrower thinner and shorter. It doesn't float you as well so to float you need to be moving faster across the water to generate lift and make up for the lack of flotation.

[Mmock4]

Thanks for the reply OldmanProner. So you think that it's more of an issue of wave shape, and size then? Don't get me wrong I wasn't trying to take off on slow rollers, I was picking the steepest peaks to be had that day.(Probably 3Ft at best). I tried changing positions on the board, and all the usual stuff on take off.

It just seemed strange to me that no matter how forward I was on the board the tail would always sink first.

[waikikikichan]

So when you're holding the board under one arm in the middle of the board, does the tail end feel heavier ?
So no matter how much weight you put on the nose, the tail stays down ? Awesome ! Sounds like a unreal noserider.
Both feet within 1/3rd of the board, that means your standing on the NSP logo, right ?

[oldmansurfer]

What is the difference in the tail shape? The longboard probably has way more flotation in the tail and a wider tail. More significantly dropping more than 2 feet in size is going to present some major challenges for you. Most people who drop more than 6 inches struggle for a little while

[Mmock4]

So when you're holding the board under one arm in the middle of the board, does the tail end feel heavier ?
So no matter how much weight you put on the nose, the tail stays down ? Awesome ! Sounds like a unreal noserider.
Both feet within 1/3rd of the board, that means your standing on the NSP logo, right ?

Sounds like it right? I dropped down a steepish wave and yes 1 foot was behind the logo and one in front I rode with it that way for maybe 20 yards with my tail going all over the place and finally ended up with the tail bogging and then sinking on the board in that position on the nose.

Just checked the boards balance point, it is just slightly in front of the dimensions logo, on the bottom 44" From the tip of the tail, 48" from the nose.

Tail shape picture included.

I know and realize that it should surf nothing like the log, but being a fun board I got the impression that it should be fairly surfable in smallish surf as well.

[waikikikichan]

1 foot was behind the logo and one in front I rode with it that way for maybe 20 yards with my tail going all over the place and finally ended up with the tail bogging and then sinking on the board in that position on the nose.

The reason why the tail is going "all over the place", is because the fins ARE NOT engaged in the water. Then after the point where the front of the board can't displace and support your weight anymore, the whitewater foam catches up to the you and engulfs the tail.
Dude, you're standing on the wrong end of the board ! See that tail pad ? Put your back foot on the front area of the pad ( don't look for it though, that'll create another problem ) and have your front foot placed wider than your shoulders.
On your longboard, the length and float allowed you to stand almost anywhere and you'd stillglide. With a smaller board you've got to create speed. And to do that you need to push the tail, NOT stand on the nose. You got the theory backwards.

[waikikikichan]

Just checked the boards balance point, it is just slightly in front of the dimensions logo, on the bottom 44" From the tip of the tail, 48" from the nose.

Balance seems about right. It's not the board that's at fault.

[Big H]

I am about your size and unfortunately for bigger guys on small waves (waist high is what I am assuming you are calling 3', not head high like my Aussie friends do).... you need a big board or skills to work the board and get the most out of the wave....3' face is not hardly a wave for a 200lbs guy on anything but a longboard at a beginner level.

My point being; you need to surf bigger waves with that new board. Tuck into a bigger one and I bet that board comes alive.

[oldmansurfer]

If you are moving fast enough a water ski can lift you out of the water but slow down and it sinks. There is no way to sink the tail other than going too slow but I think maybe Waikikichan has figured out what you are doing. I weigh 210 and ride a board that is 7'6" x 24" x 4" but originally I was surfing a 9'6 longboard. I dropped down to an 8 foot board and felt like I made a huge mistake. I didn't even feel stable sitting on or paddling the 8' board but I got over it after several sessions. However I was riding bigger waves than 3 foot. Now I am riding 3 foot waves because there is no surf at my home break and I have no time to go look for surf. It's more challenging to ride smaller surf because they don't keep the board moving as fast and you have to make up for it or loose the wave.

[Mmock4]

Just wanted to stop in and say thanks for the replies guys. Waves have still been in the 2-3ft range at the local break, so the log has been getting lots of ride time this past week. While the surf is small I think I'll do some repair, and give the board a few coats of sealant after drying just for peace of mind.

What you guys are saying makes sense I'm probably just so used to the extra glide and momentum that the log comes with that I may have just taken the fun-board out on the wrong day and/or break to ride it. Hopefully some good swell will be in soon so I can take advantage of that extra maneuverability, and tighter handling that the fun-board has to offer. Until then I will be enjoying the easy paddling, silky smooth gliding, trim machine that is the log.

Thanks again for the advice guys will put it to use as soon as Mother Nature allows.

[Mmock4]

Also wanted to point out it could also be that my wave selection to board relationship may have been partly at fault. Saw a few guys riding shortboards out there today, but man were they having a tough time getting into waves. Some did get a few waves in though, so I know it can be done. So I think I may need to adjust my wave reading, and positioning a bit on the funboard. The guys out there on shortboard were paddling like a great white was on their tail, and still had waves rolling by. So maybe the problem is more common that I had thought. Glad I have two boards though, the right tool for the job really helps my wave count/Quality of Ride.

[Big H]

I recently got a 10'4" board that is more than 3" thick....I'm looking forward to small days more than before since I've got a better/different tool for the job. Avid surfers keep quivers for:
-different conditions
-different moods
-different experiences

....waves and those who ride them are not all created the same and it is up to you to figure out how to extract the most fun for you.

[oldmansurfer]

Some surfers have many boards some don't. As you get better at surfing you will find you develop instincts related to a board except maybe if you switch boards all the time. What these instincts do is make for quicker and better decisions about what to do in a particular situation. Each board works a little different. Even if you have two boards that were made exactly the same they will work differently (because they can't be made exactly the same). So if you want to learn to surf at the very top of your ability then you need to stick to surfing one board most of them time or at least very similar boards. But I guess if you are good enough you can learn to adjust to the way a board works fairly quickly as the pros switch out board all the time however I am also sure the pros run into trouble switching boards and adjusting to them. But remember unless you are a pro, you aren't a pro surfer. Now maybe this isn't true for everyone and I am sure if you are a beginner then you have no instincts but as you use a board and get it dialed in you will learn to adjust to it's limitations. These adjustments in your surfing may or may not work with other boards but make you much better with that board. If you change to a very different board then some or all of that ability is wasted because the new board doesn't respond the same. I know I haven't really explained this BigH but this is the detailed explanation and why I still think if you are learning to surf you should stick to one board that will work in at least 80% of the waves you surf. Then maybe have a backup board that is similar for when the primary board needs to be repaired. And then a board for bigger or smaller waves depending on what you enjoy but maybe both a board for bigger than usual and smaller than usual days but you are still using the one board 80% or more of the time. However if learning to surf at the very top of your ability isn't what you want then surf a different board every day if you wish. And certainly most surfers never get to that point where they need to be concerned about it because they quit surfing before then or maybe they are just happy to cruise along and not push themselves to excel. I think lots of beginner surfers think OMG this is a longboard therefore it can't be used in steep tubing waves. WRONG! The correct statement is OMG this is a longboard and I can't use it in steep tubing waves until I learn how to use it. Boards may have their fixed inherent abilities but surfers abilities are more linked to experience, determination, fitness and knowledge or lack of experience, lack of determination, lack of fitness, and ignorance and this changes over the course of time. So ultimately surfing a lot of different boards is like a jack of all trades master of none situation while you are learning. Even if you get good still it is quite similar in that most high end surfers are not both longboard and shortboard experts but are usually way more skilled at one or the other. So if you change boards to make it easier for you to surf then you never learn to adjust your surfing for the boards limitations and will never be as good as you can be with that particular board or any particular board.. Anyway that is the detailed explanation for why I constantly advise beginner surfers not to get a bunch of boards but in reality maybe it won't matter in the long run because they will never want to excel or give up before they reach that stage

[Tudeo]

For me, choosing the right board for any given conditions is part of the fun, because it improves the quality of ur surfing so much. Also I think by dealing with as much variation (waves, boards) as possible helps to become a better surfer because it gives more diversity in experience and impressions u have to deal with.

[oldmansurfer]

Changing boards doesn't improve the quality of my surfing nor the enjoyment. Obviously BigH enjoys using lots of different boards too but I think I explained my point of view fairly well above.

[Tudeo]

I think I explained my point of view fairly well above.

Sure. One of the beautifull things of surfing is: you can do it the way you like it. 1 board or 10, well 9 actually.. It's up to you.

Hmm, maybe I should add I go thru periods of using the same board. Like I surfed my 8'2" for a couple of months because I liked the ease it offered to surf this one wave, a long left, until the end. I got to learn this wave and how it sectioned very good this way. Then recently went back to my 6'6" and had a blast with getting so much more turns out of that wave then ever before. So in that way the change of boards helpt me improve, I think.

But on smaller swells I often go to another break, a hollow wave magnet. I always use my more rockered 6'2" there because the takeoff is too difficult (I learned the hard way) for my bigger and less rockered boards.

[oldmansurfer]

I agree it is whatever floats your boat but you didn't explain how choosing a board makes for more quality surfing. I am curious though how do you do it? Do you live on the beach and check out the surf and then chose a board based on what criteria? Or how exactly that works out. Do you bring several choices to the beach with you look at the forecast somewhere and count on that being accurate? As far as steep waves go I learned to navigate steep drops on my 9'6" longboard. Every other board I have used since then has been a piece of cake to take off on steep waves so I could use any of my boards on steep waves. I can do lots of turns on all of the boards I have, the big difference is the amount of effort required not so much the number of turns. I guess for you and me surfing is a very different thing and if not for this forum I would never know about this.

[Tudeo]

I guess for you and me surfing is a very different thing and if not for this forum I would never know about this.

Well, the word is never the thing, isn't it? At best we can get close in describing the experience, but then again who can tell? I just like writing about personal surfing experiences because it keeps the thing I like most close

I guess when using a 9'6" on steep waves they must be in the 1.5-2xOH+ sizes, so you got enough space to fit that long-board? I would rather use a smaller board then, to stay safe when diving the whitewater walls on cleanup sets. I snapped too many leashes for my liking, using big boards in that size waves.

I live just under 10km from the westcoast and just over that from the eastcoast. Both sides offer many different breaks. Most of the time I carry 1 board in the rack of my motobike but if I go to further away spots I use my car and can bring 3 boards so I can choose and change, if I want to, at the site.

I use 3 different prediction websites, MagicSeaweed, Wisuki and Surfline and I write a report after each surf session. Trying to learn to predict the local situation as close as possible is an ongoing process. I write down conditions: size/shape, tide effects, rips, wind and crowd factor; and how the chosen board performed, if it was the right choice for that day. The writing process is a lot of fun because it's like re-living the surf session, often I have to dig deep to try remember the adrenaline filled events..

Based on that and my local knowledge I build over the last 9 years, I (kind off) know what to expect and what board to choose. Factors for board choice are mainly size and shape of the wave and expected crowds. But also my level of fitness for the day and just what I intuitively feel like. Basically I want to ride the smallest board that will still get me dynamic rides that day. The smaller the more fun for me most of the time. But when choosing wrong, sometimes smaller only means more frustration

On hightide and crowded spots I use an 8'2" funboard to compete with the (many) longboards, if I feel fit enough I use an high volumed 6'6" that can outpaddle mals on a good day. For the steeper takeoffs I use a 6'2" with enough rocker to make the drops. When there's a heavy shoredump or shifty peaks with many cleanup sets on the outside I use the (smaller) 6'2" to stay out of too much trouble.

I still got some other boards, bigger and smaller, which I seldom use but still haven't sold for sentimetal reasons. Sometimes I use them and enjoy the difference.

I agree with you that given enough skill u can surf any board in whatever conditions, I've seen that video of Kelly riding a door, I think it was? But being 54 yo my reflexes are not what they used to be, and I take every bit of help to enjoy the waves

[oldmansurfer]

To get into a small steep wave with a big board you need to angle the board and paddle really hard before the wave gets to you and have a quick poppup and step on the inside rail with your front foot. It is easier on a bigger wave but everything is easier on a bigger wave. I am 63 and reflexes are not the same as well as strength and weight and endurance although it's possible my reflexes might still be better than your average person. As a youngster my reflexes were abnormally fast. I am just happy to still be out in the waves. Having quit surfing for 12 years I value surfing the crappiest waves as that sure beats the heck out of not surfing.