average angle to shore

[waikikikichan]

For instance, to simplify even further, if you were to plot the course of a surfer, again, a kook just setting the rail. I'm interested in the sideshore versus offshore components of displacement.Does it depend on how the wave breaks? Are there waves where your path is almost parallel to the beach? Are there waves where even a pro has to go nearly straight to shore to stay in the pocket?

"to simplify even further" ? You're making things more complicated. You're going to get Paralysis by Analysis. Surfing IS simple, yet surfing is SOOO difficult. Golfing is super simple right ? Hell, all you got to do is hit a little white ball ( and it's stationary !! ). But anyone who actually golfs know it's not that easy. I really get and understand what you aim is at. You want to learn the wave and how you as the surfer can interact with it. But the averages, exacts, measurements CHANGE EVERY MILLISECOND. You're looking for what to do on the wave, but where on the wave, when on the wave ?? There's too many variables.

If you just take a look only at this one frame, Andy looks like he's is travelling across the face going left. What was amazing was the straight line to the beach he took in front of the crashing lip, leaned the board hard over and came around the curtain. Find the video, it was amazing.

Here's a point break ride. Does it really matter what angle the wave is to the beach ? What about waves that bend around an island ? I tried to find the video of skimboarder Austin Keen taking off from the sand and riding forever on this point break going totally sideways to the beach. Hopefully someone can post it.

[billie_morini]

Dudes, solve this with the Pythagorean Theorem!

[billie_morini]

If the application of the Pythagorean Theorem fails to provide adequate degrees of freedom, then use Calculus!

[oldmansurfer]

so what I am trying to figure out is , indeed, a simplified model of surfing. Nothing related to my own surfing though.
For instance, to simplify even further, if you were to plot the course of a surfer, again, a kook just setting the rail. I'm interested in the sideshore versus offshore components of displacement.Does it depend on how the wave breaks? Are there waves where your path is almost parallel to the beach? Are there waves where even a pro has to go nearly straight to shore to stay in the pocket?

If it is a kook there is no way they would be nearly parallel to the beach unless the beach is not parallel to the wave but the amount of distance sideways verses toward the shore will vary with the wave. For instance have you seen videos of skeleton bay? They ride that wave for a long time but it is just a little ways off shore. I am not sure if pros would be interested in waves that force a pro to aim their board toward the beach but I have ridden waves that broke like that although I wasn't just trimming along and the wave was breaking close to perpendicular to the beach

[jaffa1949]

PM I searched my memory banks for this information. The oceanographer Dr. Tony Butt, he as written many articles and papers on much of what interests you. He especially wrote regularly for The Surfers' Path magazine ( came out of the UK). I also found he has written here on Surfing-Waves so a browse will be available from the link. Enjoy. His book Surf Science is available atSurfing Waves shop, enjoy even more!
Another magazine to look at is The Surfers' Journal and another White Horses......... there is much there for your headucation but keep the watertime going too.

Cheers Jaffa

[pmcaero]

Thanks Jaffa, I'll look into that book "Surf Science", sounds interesting and it might help me .
My original question has nothing to do with my own surfing, it's just about understanding the forces that act on a suirfboard. My background is mostly in aerospace so I haven't had much training in hydrodynamics.

[oldmansurfer]

I am pretty sure if you are trying to understand the forces of surfing it is too complex to simplify and make any sense of it. I haven't seen any detailed descriptions of hydrodynamics and I read Surf Science which goes into lots of detail about wave formation and behavior. The angle of the wave to the beach isn't going to help and you should just ignore the beach because it has nothing to do with surfing a wave. More important would be the angle of the wave where the board is and the angle of the board in relationship to that but even that is not a simple thing. It depends on the wave the board and the surfer . Here is an abbreviated discussion of the hydrodynamics of surfing http://uncw.edu/phy/documents/grissom_06.pdf

[pmcaero]

Thanks OMS, looks solid. Wish I could find those Surfer articles from '69

[saltydog]

Dudes, solve this with the Pythagorean Theorem!

Allow me to correct the formula:

[billie_morini]

Dudes, solve this with the Pythagorean Theorem!

Allow me to correct the formula:

Ha, ha, Salty, and hearty thank you! Lost my squared!!

[oldmansurfer]

Even calculus won't help you understand surfing well enough to make it useful to surfing. There is just too many variables.

[Big H]

Right spirit, wrong questions.....

[waikikikichan]

My original question has nothing to do with my own surfing, it's just about understanding the forces that act on a suirfboard. My background is mostly in aerospace so I haven't had much training in hydrodynamics.

So that's like some asking about suspension / alignment set up in a car ( rebound, compression, camber, caster, toe-in) and yet doesn't drive a car. You must've asked the question since it has a effect on your board when you're on it.
There was a renter that ask me " what's the best board you got to rent ?". I said "best in fast, best in turns, best in retail costs ?" He went on to say he was a Hydrodynamic engineer and specialized in water laminar flow. So I told him "Hmm, then maybe YOU should tell me which is the "best" board ". Saw him out in the surf later, he couldn't get on a single wave.