What portion of surf lesson income goes to the instructor?!

[MarcGhazvini]

Let’s say I go to a surf shop at the beach or a surf school and get one hour with a surfing instructor for $100. How much does the instructor get and how much does the shop? My question is what percentage of the income goes to the shop and what percentages goes to the surfing instructor ?

Someone told me it's 10$ (for the surfing instructor ) and 90$ for the surf shop. Is that true? Assuming the surfer does not own any part of the shop.

I live in Southern California.

Thank you!

[oldmansurfer]

somewhere between $9 and $21 per hour is typical. Anyone wanting to make more money is free to go through all the headaches of opening their own business (insurance taxes etc) and work for themselves (I have a few friends who did)

[Big H]

Surf instructors here get food plus about $400 a month. Two hour lessons go for USD 35....do the math.

[waikikikichan]

Someone told me it's 10$ (for the surfing instructor) and 90$ for the surf shop. Is that true? Assuming the surfer does not own any part of the shop.

WHY are you asking ?
Do you plan on becoming a surf instructor ?
Do you plan on hiring surf instructors ?
Did you have a great lesson and want to "Tip" your instructor, but not sure if he/she's already making bank ?

[jaffa1949]

So are you wondering what sort or money will flow to you app if you give someone a referral to that particular surf school.?
Next part, is the instructor a name surfer or just someone employed by the school?
The answer is...... how long is a piece of string?

[waikikikichan]

Someone told me it's 10$ (for the surfing instructor) and 90$ for the surf shop. Is that true? Assuming the surfer does not own any part of the shop.

Someone told me you can learn to surf on a Fish board.
Someone told me you can make a lot of money for signing up to sell stuff over the phone.
Dude, it depends...... maybe there are bad companies that rip off their instructors. When I worked on the beach at Waikiki, the instructors got the majority, the stand got the fee for rental of the board and some.

My name is Marc Ghazvini and I am with Skuddy. We are based in sunny Orange County, California. We built an app and would love to hear your opinions about it! It's a marketplace where people can find surfing instructors in their area. The platform is not just for surfers and includes other services like personal trainers, artists, ....

It's very simple, anyone can sign up and add pictures, videos or links to their profile. You can also connect with your current and previous students and get referrals. Please check it out and let me know if you like it or not, and how we can improve it!

Yeah, you can improve by doing some research on surf instruction BEFORE you make a website about surf instruction. Not being down on you, but isn't that common sense and wise for business ?

[MarcGhazvini]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for the responses.

Your points are valid, I agree.
Our website is not only for surfing instructors, but I'm trying to understand this market a little bit. By the way, a friend thought me how to surf years ago!

I don't know if you guys are shop owners or not, if you are, then you probably won't like our business idea!
Of course we have a long way to go, and it may never happen! But, we want to make it easy for surfing students to find surfing instructors online without going through a shop. The surf instructors can find customers though our app (for free) online and all they need is a surf board. They can start teaching and keeping all the money they make. Yes, I understand it's not simple like that, there are certificates, and insurances, and other legal matters (that we need to figure out).

So, if you're not a surf shop owner ( ), what do you think about this? Any comment is welcome.

[Big H]

.....and you get the percentage and not the shop. Brilliant, undermine small businesses that are at the core of the community....even better, undermined by someone who doesn't really exist or understand the community, looks on it as an exploitable resource and business opportunity........what's next? An app to put farmers together with migrant workers?!

[waikikikichan]

But, we want to make it easy for surfing students to find surfing instructors online without going through a shop. The surf instructors can find customers though our app (for free) online and all they need is a surf board. They can start teaching and keeping all the money they make. Yes, I understand it's not simple like that, there are certificates, and insurances, and other legal matters

At Waikiki, sometimes there are "Bandit" rentals and Surf Instructors. They're not affiliated with any stand or shop. That is NOT a good thing. What if he doesn't actually know how to teach ( but knows how to surf, yes there is a difference ). What if he takes his female student to a secluded beach ? What if he's a drug addict and can't get a "real" job ? That is why being affiliated is a good AND SAFE thing. ( that's apart from the legal, taxes and insurance standpoints ).

[MarcGhazvini]

At Waikiki, sometimes there are "Bandit" rentals and Surf Instructors. They're not affiliated with any stand or shop. That is NOT a good thing. What if he doesn't actually know how to teach ( but knows how to surf, yes there is a difference ). What if he takes his female student to a secluded beach ? What if he's a drug addict and can't get a "real" job ? That is why being affiliated is a good AND SAFE thing. ( that's apart from the legal, taxes and insurance standpoints ).

That's a fair point. I agree being affiliated with a shop is a good and safe thing, because it shows some sort of validation.
What if we do a background check (like Uber)? Also, We can ask for their CPR certificates, etc. At that point it should be safe (to some extent), right? We can also require recommendations from fellow experienced surfing instructors that we know. Something like that.

[MarcGhazvini]

.....and you get the percentage and not the shop. Brilliant, undermine small businesses that are at the core of the community....even better, undermined by someone who doesn't really exist or understand the community, looks on it as an exploitable resource and business opportunity........what's next? An app to put farmers together with migrant workers?!

I feel you Big H. You are right. But that's the world we live in, fortunately or unfortunately! Every market is up for disruption, if we don't do it, someone else will do. The transportation industry (Uber), hotel industry (AirBnB), Home improvement services (Thumbtack) and so on are already disrupted.

And for the farmers, wait for Amazon.com to do that. They recently bought Wholefoods, they will disrupt the whole farmer's market and farming industry. It's a different topic, we can discuss that in a different thread.

[Big H]

Ahhhh, yes, there is that sincerity and respect for the core values of a lifestyle. Parasitic justification may be, but a parastite still remains.

Just one more reason to add to the list of why I will never live in that society again.

[Big H]

You "get" that it is offensive that a person who is "trying to understand this market a little bit" chooses a facet of your lifestyle to exploit for their own profit and gain?! Net result will be less small surfshops and a lot more part time "instructors" (read: people who need a second income who know how to surf and have an extra board). Quality of instruction will drop and more kooks with poor training will enter the lineups.

Better you go organize piano/trumpet/violin and clarinet teachers. That is still a tackboard industry that would benefit from background checks of strangers entering private homes and working with children primarily. THAT would be an improvement and contribution rather than a purely entrepreneurial scheme whose main design is to feather your own nest.

[RinkyDink]

So, if you're not a surf shop owner ( ), what do you think about this? Any comment is welcome.

There was a "bandit" surf instructor in the lineup I was in the other day. He mentioned (not sure how accurate his info is) that in Santa Cruz you have to be licensed as an instructor/surf school to teach at certain beaches. That's probably a good idea since having five surf schools all descend on one beach at the same time would likely cause problems. I can see how the instructors who pay for a concession type license and cut through the red tape to start a legitimate business would be annoyed by instructors who don't play by the rules.

As far as the market is concerned, if the surf instruction market is unregulated, then all prospective students would need to find instruction is Craigslist or access to a search engine. Why spend $10 of your $100 surf instruction budget to a third party go-between? It's not hard to find legitimate surf instruction as it is. Your business, I suspect, would need to have some kind of liability insurance as well.

[oldmansurfer]

Many municipalities have regulations about surf instruction this is the regulations for Honolulu https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/dpr/rules/Rules_Commercial_Use_Part_IX_Swim-Surf.pdf

[oldmansurfer]

http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dobor/2015/01/23/nr15-012b/ Now there are Hawaii state regulations about surf instructors

[Big H]

We need some of that regulation around here....5 surf schools DO descend on one spot here.....

[MarcGhazvini]

Many municipalities have regulations about surf instruction this is the regulations for Honolulu https://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/dpr/rules/Rules_Commercial_Use_Part_IX_Swim-Surf.pdf

Great information thanks. Do you know if individuals can get a permit too (assuming they have all the right certificates, etc)? or it's only for registered companies?

[oldmansurfer]

It sounds like you need to have training in surf instruction, have a general excise tax licence, have CPR certification, and insurance of 1 million or more (or work for someone who does)

[Big H]

It sounds like you need to have training in surf instruction, have a general excise tax licence, have CPR certification, and insurance of 1 million or more (or work for someone who does)

Should have a part two to this thread titled / What portion of surf lesson income goes to operational costs! I work in kitchens and here's an eye opener....restaurants that have waiters and table side service are doing extremely well if they can get 12-15% of menu selling prices to the bottom line. Most cases it is >10%. Maybe someone can come up with an app for improving that LOL.