NZ vs UK

[DH70]

I'm permanently leaving South Africa for either UK or NZ and have to make a decision where to go based on what's best for my family (3, 5 yr old boys) and my career. However my love for surf and snow, plus travel opportunities, lifestyle, etc are also big deciding factors. The obvious answer for a surfer and snowboarder is NZ, but I have much more to consider than just surfing. That's why I'm posting here, to get surfers opinions.
I've been surfing for 35 years, mostly South Africa, but have travelled and surfed all over the world, so I feel I've had my share. So continuing an active surf lifestyle (which is NZ) would just be an added bonus. Something tells me taking up mountain biking, sightseeing UK/Europe and it's history, culture, etc, relatively cheap and close access to the Alps and occasional surf in South West UK could be a very good compromise to consistent surf. Christchurch and Wellington has snow nearby, huge bonus, but again, at the cost of limited career opportunities?
If you've experienced both countries and have a young family (relate to my situation), I'd love to get your opinion.

[jaffa1949]

I would suggest New Zealand , miles ahead on open lifestyle and attitudes , skiing well into great European standards. You have two co existing cultures Maori and English/ Scottish European. Job opportunities well that depends on your sort of work. Clean and green!
New Sealand has great biking tracks, mountain walks ( they call it tramping). You are also far away from the idiocy of the terrorism and middle eastern stuff. Auckland and Christchurch and the capital Wellington offer all the job opportunities of big cities elsewhere just less money lower cost of living and only 4 slightly plus population.
NZ wins hands down in my book if you want lifestyle over money, but having a living wage.
Rugby union and an abundant supply of Hobbits

[DH70]

Thanks for that Jaffa1949. Can't argue that NZ has better surf, snow close by and open space galore, but my understanding is that disposable income in NZ is generally not much compared to the UK. I'm a senior HR professional, tons of opportunities in the UK, however the NZ market is tight. Surf and snow doesn't put food on the table, let alone keep the wife happy with annual trips home, shopping etc.

I'm totally leaning towards NZ, however the distance from SA (or anywhere else for that matter) and the relatively small job market puts me off a little. A friend recently told me she's never met her 7 yr old niece from NZ. Her sister has been in NZ for 10 years and they apparently have decent jobs, but flights to SA for the whole family has been unaffordable. I've heard from many people travelling there that Kiwis generally don't have much money, but make up for it with their outdoors lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, we're not rich by any means and I've never chased money, but I've always been comfortable financially, meaning we live in a nice house, buy nice food, I can do weekend surf trips away whenever I want, don't have to wait for month end to buy incidentals (new board:) and manage a snowboard trip to Europe every other year. My understanding is that a similar lifestyle is more achievable in the UK, minus the surf and good weather.....and that's what I have to wrap my head around.
UK = more jobs, more history/culture, live music, festivals, beer/pubs, Europe is next door, SA is a 12 hr flight. Negatives, almost no surf, crap weather.
NZ = surf, snow, less crowded, open space, more sun. Negatives, very very very very far, earthquakes, low/no disposable income.

[billie_morini]

DH70,
your description of potential life in NZ sound similar to what I live in Santa Barbara, CA, including less employment opportunities and low disposable income. I could live elsewhere, but I want to live here for surf, not so crowded, open space, more sun, beautiful nature, natural history, etc. It's a personal and conscientious choice. I do not like and/or want human history, human culture, festivals, anything next door, over population, pretense, and the perceived benefits related to more developed areas. While not the UK, employers in Germany made heroic efforts to get me to return to Germany.

Your mention of children reminds me of a mentor I once had. "Mike" was offered a fantastic job by a major magazine in New York City. He told them when they began pursing him that he did want to live in NYC. When the offer finally came, it required him to relocate from a major city in North Carolina. Mike physically tore the contract up. I ask him why. He boldly proclaimed, "My little boy is going to grow up with trees to climb!" From everything I've read, NZ is a much better place for children than the UK or NYC.

[dtc]

It is a hard decision, because as an Australian I can say for certain you are not physically close to much of the world. Trips to Europe, for example, are rare, expensive and take a long long time. The US and, well, everywhere other than Asia is much the same. NZ is, of course, in a similar boat. Even parts of Asia arent that close - London/Tokyo is 12.5hrs flight time, London/Auckland is 11 hours. This seems to be important to you

But of course you dont live your life for travel, you live your life day to day. NZ weather will be better, (even if its still terrible!). There is a reasonable ex pat Sth African community. Lifestyle is pretty relaxed, big cities are not big, pollution and crowds are not really a thing. Education system is good, health care is good. Costs are not that high (although housing isnt that cheap). the environment and outdoor life is probably amongst the best in the world

On the other side, international bands and art exhibitions and so forth are fairly unusual as you have noted. NZ is a very small country - 4.5m people. London alone is twice the size. NZ is not the headquarters for any major company. Opportunities are much more limited

That doesnt give you an answer! You seem to feel the UK is where you should go and just trying to find out if there is anything in NZ you have missed. A couple of our posters are in NZ, they might pop over.

You could always just try Australia. Best of both worlds. Although Sydney can be a bit of a nightmare to live in

[DH70]

I totally agree with everyones responses so far, however I keep hammering on the UK mainly because of it's location (distance from everything, cheaper flights) and more job opportunities. My head says UK, my heart says NZ. 10 Years ago I wouldn't even consider the UK over NZ, but the odds are in favour of the UK for someone going to a new country unemployed and with no local experience. It's a difficult choice between a simple, uncrowded, surf filled lifestyle or a more affluent one which sacrifices vast outdoors space and surf time.
I can tell the people posting so far (and probably the majority of subscribers) share my outlook on life, so perhaps I'm not going to hear from anyone pro-UK here. Which is not a bad thing, it's all helping me make the right call.

dtc, I stayed in Sydney for almost a year (1998), Maroubra and Avalon. Loved it, but apparently things have change a lot. Very expensive. Problem with Oz is that the work visa process takes about a year. A friend who had a senior accounting job in Cape Town moved over 4 years ago. It took him 3 years to get an accounting job on a similar level! He was working on building sites in the interim. For an expat in their 40's with a common skills set (most white collar) it's a huge gamble moving abroad, so unfortunately job opportunities is a big deciding factor. If my skills were sought after, for instance scientist or engineer, I'd be in Oz in a flash.
Upside with NZ is that we can move to Oz after 5 years!

Off the topic, today we have the biggest storm in Cape Town since '81. 12m swell, 16-17 sec period, spring tide. Houses on the beachfront packed sandbags yesterday, schools closed for the day.

[YungGrom]

I'm permanently leaving South Africa for either UK or NZ and have to make a decision where to go based on what's best for my family (3, 5 yr old boys) and my career. However my love for surf and snow, plus travel opportunities, lifestyle, etc are also big deciding factors. The obvious answer for a surfer and snowboarder is NZ, but I have much more to consider than just surfing. That's why I'm posting here, to get surfers opinions.
I've been surfing for 35 years, mostly South Africa, but have travelled and surfed all over the world, so I feel I've had my share. So continuing an active surf lifestyle (which is NZ) would just be an added bonus. Something tells me taking up mountain biking, sightseeing UK/Europe and it's history, culture, etc, relatively cheap and close access to the Alps and occasional surf in South West UK could be a very good compromise to consistent surf. Christchurch and Wellington has snow nearby, huge bonus, but again, at the cost of limited career opportunities?
If you've experienced both countries and have a young family (relate to my situation), I'd love to get your opinion.

Haven't been to the UK but it is alot warmer here in NZ plus stronger rugby teams

[Oldie]

I have been in the UK (England, Ireland, Scotland) a lot and loved it and we have many friends there. Especially England has become a very expensive place to live, with housing prices around the larger cities completely ridiculous and the government doing anything to make life more expensive and difficult. Job opportunities will get less due to Brexit, finance companies are already leaving London. There is more hostility in the society because of Brexit, and at the same time big brother activities like CCTV everywhere increase. Universities are extremely expensive, too. So it is not a very cool or family friendly environment. If UK, I would opt for Ireland (cool people, family friendy, decent surf) or Scotland (cool people too, but very cold weather).

Any reason why you limit the choices to UK or NZ? Why not i.e. France (better weather & food , decent surf at the atlantic coast and great skiing opportunities)?

[DH70]

Any reason why you limit the choices to UK or NZ? Why not i.e. France (better weather & food , decent surf at the atlantic coast and great skiing opportunities)?

Oldie, I'll gladly live in France, Austria or Switzerland, but as a South African passport holder with an average white collar job, there's zero chance of getting into the EU. I've explored it endlessly. You either have to be a syrian migrant or world leading scientist to get into the EU. UK because my wife is a UK passport holder, NZ because I qualify on their points system and their visa turnaround time is super quick compared to Oz.
What most people forget is that it's an extremely expensive and difficult exercise for average South Africans to immigrate. We don't have the luxury to explore different options, so if a decision is made, it better be the right one.

[Lebowski]

NZ every time. I am from the UK, but have spent around 3 years in NZ. I'm currently in the UK, and everytime I have to come back here I find it so depressing. It's probably fine as a tourist, but day to day life is crap. Hugely overcrowded, traffic literally everywhere with traffic lights and speed camera enforcement literally everywhere, grey dull days most of the time, increasing terror attacks due to corrupt politicians. There is decent mountain biking but half the time it's rainy/cold/windy. There's also a lot of decent surf, but it's cold and most of the jobs aren't that close to it.

I plan to try and make a permanent move to NZ towards the end of the year as I also will have enough points as a skilled migrant. I need to find an NZ job first though.

[BaNZ]

I've lived in UK for 20 years. Depending on your skillset, you will most likely work in London. That is very far from the South West and you will spend 3-4 hours driving to the beach every weekend. East and South coast rarely has any waves and its nothing compared to SA.

UK is a nice place to raise family though. Haven't been to NZ so I can't really compare them.