A couple more questions

[jaffa1949]

On a longboard. If you are dragging your feet you are too far back. Heed the nose being just 1" above the water. Put you feet on the board equally just near the centre line.
Remind me how long your NSP is . Unless it is a shortboard off the back with your feet means you are paddling a snow plough pushing a wall of water!
It still comes down to nose diving is most often caused by being too far back .

There are times I still get my take off timing wrong, wipe outs ensue as for anyone.

[Millsy82]

I'm on a 9'2

It's not off the back it's to the sides slightly. I concentrate more on my paddling then my legs go out to the side and catch either side.

Usually I think with the top of my feet flat to the top of the board my toes just about touch the end of the board. At this position my nose seems to be about right, when I paddle for a wave I keep my head and chest up, when the wave picks me up generally I drop my head down which should drop the nose the away I go but if I nose dive I end up with my head and chest up until I pop up or fly off.

After watching the videos I think I'm doing everything right it's just I need to keep refining it and I'm just getting my positioning correct more often than not.

[jaffa1949]

I'm on a 9'2
After watching the videos I think I'm doing everything right it's just I need to keep refining it and I'm just getting my positioning correct more often than not.

More surfing and yeah it is fine tuning but get those feet in from the side , it will come down in the end that it will all suddenly gel. Get to know the deck of your board so you are aware you are in the right paddle position but get every thing smooth so you don't look for your hand position in popping up or your feet position from there on in.
BTW if you do pop up well with no nose dive , how do your rides go?

[waikikikichan]

Iwhen I paddle for a wave I keep my head and chest up, when the wave picks me up generally I drop my head down which should drop the nose the away I go but if I nose dive I end up with my head and chest up until I pop up or fly off.

After watching the videos I think I'm doing everything right it's just I need to keep refining it and I'm just getting my positioning correct more often than not.

From what you're describing, you are doing everything OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. Head down at first during the paddle to get the board pointed down ( and have maximum depth for the paddle stroke ), then head up and chest back after to adjust the angle of attack and to make up for the body being too far forward or back ( no ones is always exact, wind changes, tide drops, you get tired 1 hour after than when your first wave, backwash, etc. ) The chest up/back right before you pop is like a CLUTCH. You can feather the clutch, to give more or take away momentum. If you chest is maxed out back, you can't go anymore. Watch the videos again, you might even notice some longboarders "pause" in the back arched moment to wait for the right time ( and let the wave build up ) before they pop.

[Millsy82]

BTW if you do pop up well with no nose dive , how do your rides go?

Really well, I can do a lovely bottom turn on my front side, rear not as good but I keep working on that, when I am on my front side I can go down the line; I can create my own speed (it was a bit of an accident and 1 of my coaches said I did it spot on) I do struggle to get any further decent turns in without losing too much speed but mostly the waves over the past month have been 1-2ft and not the cleanest, if it has been bigger it's been a bit of a mess, so I'm waiting for a nice 3-4 ft clean wave so I can see if everything I have been working on has worked as the last time I went out in that size I caught a few really really good waves (for me anyway)

On my rear side not a huge amount but I am now going for waves peeling left so I am working on that.

[Millsy82]

Iwhen I paddle for a wave I keep my head and chest up, when the wave picks me up generally I drop my head down which should drop the nose the away I go but if I nose dive I end up with my head and chest up until I pop up or fly off.

After watching the videos I think I'm doing everything right it's just I need to keep refining it and I'm just getting my positioning correct more often than not.

From what you're describing, you are doing everything OPPOSITE of what you should be doing. Head down at first during the paddle to get the board pointed down ( and have maximum depth for the paddle stroke ), then head up and chest back after to adjust the angle of attack and to make up for the body being too far forward or back ( no ones is always exact, wind changes, tide drops, you get tired 1 hour after than when your first wave, backwash, etc. ) The chest up/back right before you pop is like a CLUTCH. You can feather the clutch, to give more or take away momentum. If you chest is maxed out back, you can't go anymore. Watch the videos again, you might even notice some longboarders "pause" in the back arched moment to wait for the right time ( and let the wave build up ) before they pop.

Oh that could be where I'm messing up then! I don't know why but I thought a good paddling position was with head and chest up. I could of sworn I watched a video saying that as well,

I will have a bit of a play around when I can get back out again.

[jaffa1949]

Here are two pictures of longboard take offs in steeper waves. The one of my friend in the yellow rashy you can see is well forward and pushing the nose down as the wave steepens to match the increasing slope of the face,. To do otherwise (weighting the back of the board) would mean the wave lifting the tail and causing a nose dive. You can see quite a lot of water spraying off the front of the board. He makes it.

The next one is of one of my waves in West Timor, what you need to see here is how low my nose is to the water I am on the edge of the point where gravity pulls me in ( that surge the wave gives) three more strokes the secret ( three more strokes) to drive me down the face. Again I too am well forward and my pop up will further push the board nose down to the shape of the face. My feet are together and near the boards centre ( the board is 9ft 1inch)

I'm not afraid to show my failures , this is a sequence that shows exactly what happens when your tail is weighted and your nose is too high for the take off.

I had already lost this wave I hadn't paddled hard enough and am beginning to slip toward up and over the back of the wave.
In the next shot I have been forced further up the wave, as i didn't match the speed of the wave and my nose is not driving down the wave face . I am beginning to try and force it down.

Grim determination and force are not enough, the lip is beginning to have an effect on the back of the board.

This doesn't work and I am right at the top and the board nose is now almost horizontal and about to be tilted into a late take off and potential nose dive situation. If I had completed my pop up I might have controlled it ( like a re entry) but the upwards pull was too strong and I am still trying force the nose into a favourable angle. ( not working)

I am up and engulfed in the white water, some surfers could salvage this ( not me , not this time ) my inside rail is starting to take too much pressure

the next result is the nose dive although I only catch the inside rail it is enough,

Finally somebody else who is a really good surfer, in correct paddle position with legs up slightly, this guy can out paddle most people.

Just an added note to illustrate Waikikichan's comment about head up and head down, successful takeoff head down, deep hard paddle, unsuccessful takeoff, head up chest up shallow powerless paddle and no 3 extra strokes down the face.
Get someone to video, from the beach, no GoPro it hurts to see yourself the first time but it cuts through the beliefs we have of what we doing.

[oldmansurfer]

Just curious Jaffa, you didn't make that drop? I'm pretty sure you have other instances where this ploy worked. It looks pretty close to making it but it's a still picture and if you are off balance and the wave is pounding your board then it's all over. I have trouble taking off when the wave is pounding my board and fall down most (but not all) of the time but if I am a little later than that where the wave breaks below me and sucks me over the falls, in that instance I can usually make it. I tend to line up in an area where I have a chance to catch a set wave or an inside wave. If I paddle like heck for the inside wave sometimes I can make the drop but it's often a off situation and I may drop down the wave with the board parallel to the bottom instead of pointed down the wave and if the wave isn't pounding my board I am ok however I am moving forward quite well and then also the wave may go ahead and break under my board which then pulls me along and I do a kind of floater on takeoff.

[waikikikichan]

I don't know why but I thought a good paddling position was with head and chest up. I could of sworn I watched a video saying that as well.

Sure if it's on the internet or on Youtube, it must be real, right ? There's videos of guys saying beginners should learn on Fishes, to cup their hands on the paddle, etc. Even advice given on this forum, varies. But so does every Human, every surfboard and every wave. They are all different.

One thing that i notice is you said " one of my coaches said ". How many coaches do you have ?

[jaffa1949]

Just curious Jaffa, you didn't make that drop?

No I didn't, my knees just wouldn't open up at speed, years of playing Rugby Union me sometimes means they are stuck like half opened penknives , sometimes two sometimes one.
Usually I have to take it like a rat. This was a fast moving wave and the frame rate shows the whole sequence took less than 2 seconds. Most times I would have made it but it illustrates failure in committed paddling perfectly. Maybe I was tired from too many good waves.

[Millsy82]

One thing that i notice is you said " one of my coaches said ". How many coaches do you have ?

I go out when I can (usually once a week) with a local surf school and they have 3/4 coaches that deal with our group but usually it's only 2 that deal with me.

[Namu]

Lots of good advice in this thread, something that can help pearling in steeper more critical waves, is to angle the nose of the board away from the peak of the wave toward the less steep shoulder of the wave. I recently bought a classic shaped single fin noserider and it needs to be angled much more than my performance longboard due to the flat nose rocker. My first time out I kept pearling trying to catch waves like I normally do on my performance board. Waikiki is right about chest pressure on the board, if the wave isnt steep, flatten your chest against the board to shift weight to the nose to get down the wave. If it is steep arch your back to keep the nose going under or use your hands to apply pressure to your inside rail just before you pop up to angle your nose down the line, avoiding a steep drop.

[Silvery]

A lot of good advice and food for thought,I've read through thread several times and feel sure this will help me.
Thanks to you all.