Diminishing Returns?

[BoMan]

The break you like is also a factor. My longboard is PERFECT at Bolinas where most waves break at 14 second intervals and I have lots of time to spot a wave, turn and paddle before it breaks.

At Dillon Beach, the waves break at 6-8 seconds and it's harder with a big board. (at least for me)

[leinosaur]

Another non-guru chiming in; however, as an avid kook in New England, where we are required most of the year to add thick rubber to sometimes already-well-insulated frames, I see a lot of boards on either side of this equation, and I ask a lot of questions.

The short answer is obvious, it's all about the glide. I see older dudes in particular push the 11'+ range. They knee paddle into the choicest waves at the earliest sign of a hump, and keep their precious timber and worn-out shoulders out of the inside soup. They tend to draw slow curves up and down the face, and occasionally even turn. Even on a close-out day these guys are having fun, at our slowly-sloping beach break, because much of their work is done before the lip ever starts to pitch (or, more often, crumble). The 'walk' for these guys is largely a matter of trim, and not for show. Not a lot of nose riding going on. The 'glider' boards tend to have a pulled-in or even pin tail vs. the blunt butts of the standard nose riders, presumably to smooth out those turns.

This vid of Burch on his glider is f'ing gorgeous: of course he goes to the nose once or twice, but he does that even on asymmetrical finless boards, so it doesn't really count:
https://youtu.be/6fZPGUq_uQw

One elder statesman I met, confided that after decades of prone paddling, his shoulders weren't up to that stress anymore, but the decreased range of motion possible when knee paddling balanced out the equation for him. An 11-foot board is much easier to knee-paddle than a 9'6. My main surf bro has a 10'6" Harbour San-O which is crazy fun in knee-high and smaller waves, and will catch ripples that you can hardly distinguish from the surface chop. We have a significant commute, so once we get to the beach, we're probably going out, regardless. The 10'6 has rescued a trip or two, when the forecast was overly optimistic on size and deluded on the wind direction, and even my 9'8 log was struggling to get purchase. It's also fun just to see what you can make a party barge like that do.

For nose riding though, 'how much is too much' is an interesting calculation, one variable of which would be, how much of the board is inside the wave providing leverage against the scalawag perched out on the front porch. I'm thinking of the actual plank-walk where the nose is sticking well out from the wave face, versus the 'skimming' business where you can't see the rider's knees from all the spray in front. If the board is too long, the balance is upset and there's too much leverage up front, pushing down . . . either that, or the process of walking forward, which is also a process of pushing the board backward into the wave, could push the tail and more importantly the fin, right out the back.

This would also depend of course on the size, shape and speed of the wave: for instance, picture 16-second 2' Malibu versus 8-second 2' beach break. There's a lot more 'thick' inside the long period curl, especially with a point shouldering it sideways as well as up, versus the wide, thin sandbar sauce, that would rather roll past than bother pushing you forward.

Cool question.

[jaffa1949]

Cool perspective to the cool question!

[RinkyDink]

This vid of Burch on his glider is f'ing gorgeous: of course he goes to the nose once or twice, but he does that even on asymmetrical finless boards, so it doesn't really count:
https://youtu.be/6fZPGUq_uQw

I think my question came from the narrow perspective that longboarding is simply a stop along the way to shortboarding. Your video link makes it pretty obvious that longboarding is its own thing. In other words, it's entirely separate from shortboarding. Different longboard lengths offer different ways of riding. It seems like the longer your board is the more you become part of the actual wave. Shortboarding, on the other hand, offers a surfer a kind of release from the wave. I see that difference now. Good post and video.

[jaffa1949]

Rinky I thought since a picture is worth a thousand words I'd put up some videos that will further widen out the perspective that shortboarding is the only form of surfing with any credence.

Before there were boards there were bodies and so body surfing
https://youtu.be/IZtWehjHvfQ
In order to show longboarders that there were potentials for different tracks in riding waves there were belly boards,knee boards and Paipos and strange just planks, but here is George Greenough on Velo a spoonshaped fibreglass laying tracks that hadn't been seen before.
A Knee boarder Steve Lis in California is credited with the fish shape kneeboard wider profile although swallow tails came in in the 70s, cross fertilisation.
https://youtu.be/t5Cr5Br0r8M
Surf mats are probably the fastest point to point surf craft and a great traveling stealth weapon when transport won't allow boards.
https://youtu.be/pMfYt0naMwo

If you ride these you need to have a full surfing act together, in Australia they were the most hated surf craft called "Goat Boats", an act like this however leaves most surfers in the shade
https://youtu.be/KcIqmxj0jXk
As always it is about the surfer , their attitude and skills which makes the surfing special.
Good surfers are often Smorgasboarders and choose boards to fit their moods and the surf.

[RinkyDink]

Rinky I thought since a picture is worth a thousand words I'd put up some videos that will further widen out the perspective that shortboarding is the only form of surfing with any credence.

. . . Good surfers are often Smorgasboarders and choose boards to fit their moods and the surf.

Thanks for the links Jaffa. I enjoyed them.

[oldmansurfer]

good surfers are often good surfing a variety of boards whereas us not so good surfers are not so good at a variety of boards

[leinosaur]

longboarding is its own thing.

Is it ever! As Jaffa so ably demonstrated, longboarding is not the only non-shortboard thing going, and was not the first thing, but merely one manner of appreciation . . . and not only is longboarding its own thing, it's its own fourteen things, or at least three that we have discussed so far. If you'll forgive the pigeon-holing, it's roughly at least: logging, 'high-performance', and gliding . . . not to mention the hybrids, 'fun boards,' eggs, and other craft surfed even part-time in the longboard 'style,' which tends to include some nose riding.

On the classic end, here's one of my favorite 'smooth & casual' sliders, Kenji Miyauchi sporting a lanky loose-jointed style, and proving that bleach-blond slashers lack exclusive rights to the title of surfer:
https://youtu.be/sW3WFviwFhM

For 'performance' longboarding, I'm a Nelson Ahina III fan. He's Hawaiian but here he's in Japan where HP long boarding appears to be a bigger deal than many places. For example, the JPSA puts nine-hour HP longboard contests on You Tube, some of which are in 14" onshore conditions. Instructive, but definitely a niche market. Meanwhile here's Nelson making the most of otherwise non-cinematic conditions:
https://youtu.be/ufxftlIiGwo

Another of my HP favorites is shaper and brewmeister Ben Skinner, and this one in particular . . . dig the blustery UK juice: https://youtu.be/pROUgEipiu0

I think my question came from the narrow perspective that longboarding is simply a stop along the way to shortboarding.

It's ironic that the glider goodness opened your eyes to longboard sovereignty, when it also demonstrates the converse of your former delusion of the longboard-to-shortboard progression: Ryan B was a short boarder first, cutting his teeth in southern California competition surfing . . .. hence not merely shortboarding but for points, sponsors . . . and matured to develop an appreciation of the full range of surf craft, including the minimalist perspective piece of ripping on a brash chunk of unglassed foam:
https://youtu.be/adMAvGZz0t0

You should catch him on twin fish, asymmetricals, logs and everything in between, his identifiable smooth style translates from one shape to the next, as smoothly as he uses them to explore the potential of each wave. Some refer to such wizards as surfing the wave more than the board.

It seems like the longer your board is the more you become part of the actual wave. Shortboarding, on the other hand, offers a surfer a kind of release from the wave. I see that difference now.

A nifty point of distinction you have articulated there, and much on my mind as I have started to explore somewhat shorter craft in the interest of exploring that release, and knowing that difference.

In the end, it sounds like you're ready to have fun on a longboard. I say don't be shy about going a little longer than you thought. If you're going to log it, log it, why would you not want to paddle easier, and get in earlier? Also remember to forgive yourself while you find the sweet spot, get your turtle roll down pat and especially remember that in the end, you are probably the only one who really cares what board you rock . . . except to catch stoke on how it treated you, why you chose it, where it came from, etc. Choose one from a local shaper or have one built, and otherwise-reticent connoisseurs will come out of their shells in the spirit of keeping tabs on the local talent: "How's that [insert shaper's name] treating you?

[Big H]

Nice post! Now I've got to go follow all the links! Thanks!

The bit about the connoisseurs coming out of their holes is spot on.....the balsa longboard I got from a local shaper gets lots of attention. Last week the shaper himself paddled over on his 11ft+ log to introduce himself and ask after the board. He offered to switch with me so that I could try his monster out....I begged off but he told me to ask again and that the offer stood anytime. Shortly after I got quizzed about the board from another in the lineup who had been to the shop, looked over the boards and was on the fence whether to get one or not. If you were to pigeonhole it, I'd call it a glider and ride it as such. Beautiful board and went so well out there on the break that it designed for (didn't know that was the shaper until I got the board but I see him out there just about every time I surf Sunday daybreak sessions....that's his wave and his boards go well there apparently).