Duck dive troubles in bigger surf

[icetime]

Hey guys, I bought a new board about a month ago it's smaller than my bigger board so it's duckdivable, I'm having issues duck diving in bigger surf though, after waves get over head high, I'm not able to duckdive well.
When I try to duck dive I get shot out the back like a cork and lose my position on my board and have to adjust or I get sucked over the falls, I can duckdive fine in smaller surf and through whitewash.
Some info:
I duck dive using my foot on the tailpad, not my knee.
I'm not sure where to initiate my duck dive when a wave hasn't broken yet (Face, Through...).

Thanks in advance for the tips.

[dtc]

paddle hard and use your head as a battering ram!

Go through the unbroken wave as near to the lip as you can (that is where the wave is thinnest). If its already 1/2 broken, then you are in the wrong place and need to learn not to be there. If its 1/5 broken (just starting to curl), you should be able to punch through

if you get through and are coming off the board, I guess 'hold on tighter'? stay closer to the board, become one with the board - as you hit the wave, bring your head and chest down close to the board and spear through (create as little drag as possible). As mentioned, paddle hard

I'm not quite sure, having said the above, the type/situation you are having problems with - what state is the wave (in terms of breaking)?

[oldmansurfer]

When a wave breaks the force goes down under water often close to the height of the wave deep. If the water is shallower than the height then all the ways to the bottom. If you try to duck dive a wave that breaks all the ways to the bottom you will get pounded. If you duck dive and aren't deep enough to escape the force from the wave you will take a pounding. Theoretically it's less than right at the surface but on a big enough wave that is still pretty significant. I used to paipo board and could duck dive all the way to the bottom and so escaped the force of almost every wave. I was never good enough at duck diving to escape a pounding from bigger waves on a surfboard.

[oldmansurfer]

What I meant is if you are in the impact zone once away from the breaking power of the wave it's not quite as deep or as hard to duck dive but still a 10 foot wall of whitewater is going to be difficult to duckdive

[icetime]

What I meant is if you are in the impact zone once away from the breaking power of the wave it's not quite as deep or as hard to duck dive but still a 10 foot wall of whitewater is going to be difficult to duckdive

When whitewash is that tall I swim down and pull the leash so the board is underwater with me, I hold it from the leash plug almost so almost everything but the nose is submerged, it works great

[icetime]

paddle hard and use your head as a battering ram!

Go through the unbroken wave as near to the lip as you can (that is where the wave is thinnest). If its already 1/2 broken, then you are in the wrong place and need to learn not to be there. If its 1/5 broken (just starting to curl), you should be able to punch through

if you get through and are coming off the board, I guess 'hold on tighter'? stay closer to the board, become one with the board - as you hit the wave, bring your head and chest down close to the board and spear through (create as little drag as possible). As mentioned, paddle hard

I'm not quite sure, having said the above, the type/situation you are having problems with - what state is the wave (in terms of breaking)?

I don't know what state the wave is in when I'm under the water because when it's big it's almost always hollow during the winter here so the wave breaks quickly, I just duckdive just as it's starting to break and hasn't curled over but I get sucked over the falls (I initiate the duckdive the in the lower face of the wave), I guess I'm just not paddling hard enough, it's kind of hard to keep up paddling that strong when a big set rolls in and I have to duck dive atleast 3 big waves.

[dtc]

So if you are being sucked over the falls this is what I think.

Keep in mind how a wave works - water is being sucked up the face and then over the back of the wave; or when the wave is breaking sucked up and then falling as the lip descends.

If you are hitting a wave that is almost breaking and being sucked over the falls, you possibly are being caught up in that water going up the face.If you try to go through a wave too late and its already breaking, then basically you are just in the wrong spot

If you are hitting a wave and getting half way through and stopping, then potentially you just become part of the wave and go over the falls.

Solution - paddle harder, punch through. Hit the wave hard, push the nose down as you hit. You dont necessarily need to push the tail of the board down like a normal duck dive - when you are going through the body of the wave, you dont need to go 'down', just 'through' (of course, doing down gives you more time; and if - like old man says - you are able to go down enough, then the wave will pass right above you)

If you are being hit by a big set, it is hard. Maybe let yourself get pushed back a bit so you are in the white water and not the impact zone. Or just paddle paddle!

[icetime]

So if you are being sucked over the falls this is what I think.

Keep in mind how a wave works - water is being sucked up the face and then over the back of the wave; or when the wave is breaking sucked up and then falling as the lip descends.

If you are hitting a wave that is almost breaking and being sucked over the falls, you possibly are being caught up in that water going up the face.If you try to go through a wave too late and its already breaking, then basically you are just in the wrong spot

If you are hitting a wave and getting half way through and stopping, then potentially you just become part of the wave and go over the falls.

Solution - paddle harder, punch through. Hit the wave hard, push the nose down as you hit. You dont necessarily need to push the tail of the board down like a normal duck dive - when you are going through the body of the wave, you dont need to go 'down', just 'through' (of course, doing down gives you more time; and if - like old man says - you are able to go down enough, then the wave will pass right above you)

If you are being hit by a big set, it is hard. Maybe let yourself get pushed back a bit so you are in the white water and not the impact zone. Or just paddle paddle!

I'd rather burn my back trying to get inside when I'm caught than take it on the head, especially on my smaller board, I don't want to get my leash plug snapped out and have to swim for half an hour (the beach I surf at is a rip current fest and the lineup is like 200m from the beach)
Also would duck diving before the face as int he bottom of the wave make it less likely for me to get sucked over or should I just stick to full speed and dive through the face

[dtc]

Also would duck diving before the face as int he bottom of the wave make it less likely for me to get sucked over or should I just stick to full speed and dive through the face

It depends...

If you can duck duck under far enough and stay down long enough, then that is the ideal solution (think about how you would deal with the wave if you didnt have a surfboard). But 'punching through' is a form of duck diving in a way - you are pushing the board down and into the water, just that the wave isnt very thick at that spot. Hence you dont need to stay 'down' for very long. So on a bigger or floatier board, its a much easier solution

If you are able to get to a wave before its broken, you really shouldnt be caught out. You can duck dive or your can punch through or you can paddle very hard and get over the lip (or go through the lip). If you get it wrong, last resort is spearing feet first off the board into the wave and hopefully out the other side (keeping in mind other surfers around you of course); but this shouldnt happen really - its when you have made a mistake. White water is where duck diving really helps out, if you can get to the face of a wave then you should be able to get over it or through it without a problem.

Sure you can be caught 'inside' just 5m from where the lip of the wave is landing and you just suffer until you get pushed back or there is a lull and you can paddle. That happens, but again only when you have made a mistake (fallen off etc). But paddling out when you are in control and can see the waves as they are coming towards you and you can make it to the unbroken part of the wave - you shouldnt have any issues unless you are doing something wrong. Which is probably just not padding hard enough at the wave and not pushing through (duck diving or punching through) hard enough. Or your timing is just not particularly good

[RinkyDink]

What I meant is if you are in the impact zone once away from the breaking power of the wave it's not quite as deep or as hard to duck dive but still a 10 foot wall of whitewater is going to be difficult to duckdive

When whitewash is that tall I swim down and pull the leash so the board is underwater with me, I hold it from the leash plug almost so almost everything but the nose is submerged, it works great

When I first started out surfing I used to do that. However, on one big day my leash somehow got tangled around my arm and my board got ripped away from me and the leash cinched down on my arm . . . not fun. My arm was sore for a week. I keep my arms and my head away from my leash now--not to mention that you really don't want to get that close to your fins. Anyway, I'd recommend caution.

[Surf Hound]

Yes. Be careful holding onto your leash. I once had my fingernail ripped off holding onto the leash. Somehow my finger got twisted and yanked my fingernail off. Hurt like a m.f.er. Never again did i hold onto my leash. Waves were not very big, maybe 4-5 Hawaiian.

[Big H]

It's natural selection in a way......my father never lifted me into a tree....told me that if I wanted to climb the tree, I'd have to be able to do it from the bottom otherwise I wasn't ready to climb a tree that size.


Practice in surf you can handle and work on your timing and technique.....then try a little bigger and repeat. Don't do what you described; try to surf like you don't have a leash.....bailing and holding on to your board with your leash creates all kinds of hazards to yourself (fingernails apparently being one....you can pop a finger right off actually if you get things twisted or otherwise stuck in) and those around you. Plus it's a good way to lose your board like you alluded you had concerns about.

[icetime]

In bigger surf I take out my big board which isn't duck divable it has too much volume and is too wide 23'5 inch, It's big so it paddles quick so I just fly over sets when paddling if caught, not when whitewash happens, then I just paddle fast and turtle roll and hope I don't get nuked