Turtle roll and other bits of advice

[Millsy82]

After coming along great since starting surfing in June/July I have taken quite a few steps back in progress. I have gone from catching nice clean waves to nose diving ad missing waves this is because the waves have got bigger over the past couple of months.

I found that I could get out the back fairly easy by muscling my way through but now the waves have got that bit bigger I am not able to get out the back and when I do my arms are shattered. Which then leads to me trying for waves and missing them.

What I have found is anything over 3-4 ft I have to turtle roll and if I only have to do 1 then I can get out, 2 and I will get out eventually but my arms will be done and if I have to roll 3+ times I struggle to get back on the board quick enough to make progress before the next wave hits then I end up going backwards. I realise when it is over a certain size there is no point in getting out the back as I will struggle to catch waves as my arms will be shot, so I have taken the idea that when it gets too big I will play in the whitewater and practice my turtle roll and pop up, turning etc in the white water/ occasional green wave that comes through and when conditions are slightly smaller I can get out the back and work on pickin the right wave and everything else.

My questions are

Is there a better way of getting back on the board after a turtle roll? I just muscle my way back on but after 3 my arms are shot.

Is there anything else I can practice whilst playing in the white water? generally I pop up turn a little bit but it's not as good as catching a green wave.

Is there anything else I can do to improve my fitness? During the summer I got out quite a lot now I'm down to 1-2 times a week.

Anybody know of any spots around Cornwall that when it gets big will be slightly smaller? I have got used to going to Godrevy, gwithian and Perranporth.

Thank you for your time.

[dtc]

To get back on the board, you can sort of lie on the board as you are righting it and as it flips over (to be the right side up), it takes you with it. ie instead of righting the board and getting on, you sort of hop on as you are righting it using your legs. It takes a bit of practice. see here at around 1.14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrNqhL8Kynw It also helps you get back on the board much faster

Another thing I have found to save your arms is to see if you can do something that you currently do with your arms in some other way. For example, if you are paddling and then want to sit up, instead of pushing with your arms, dangle your legs and let your legs provide leverage. Only a minor difference but it can add up over a longer session.

Turtle rolling itself shouldnt tire out your arms too much - are you death gripping the board with rigid arms? See if you can relax your arms a bit (grip needs to be strong). That video linked above I dont quite agree with in that I find if your hands are closer to the nose, then you can bring the nose under much more easily and, once the nose is down, the rest of the board will generally be fine. So check that you have your hands forward (personal preference of course, this may not work for you)

In the white water, try really turning ie from going left to cutting back to going right (180 turns) or from going forward to facing right back out to sea. Practice different weighting - right on the tail, see how far forward you can go etc. Try turning from those different spots. Try different stances - make sure your hands go to the 'right' spot (eg front hand to the rear, not both hands out in front), bend your knees and crouch very low, stand up straight etc. Try moving rail to rail as you are going straight (it wont do anything but you can get a feel of making side to side weight adjustments). These may not necessarily 'improve' your skills but they will give you a better feel or understanding of the board, which will help a lot when you are 'under fire' on the wave.

If you are nose diving on the green waves, probably you just arent paddling hard/fast enough for the faster bigger waves (or, technically, its not that the swell is necessarily moving faster but the bigger the wave the more water is coming up the face in a shorter period, and you need to paddle to overcome that water movement). Positioning for the wave may also be a factor - eg because you need to be moving faster when the wave comes, often you actually have to go back slightly further and then start paddling earlier so your speed is up when the wave arrives (because bigger boards take a while to get up to speed). You may also be feeling a bit hesitant because of the bigger wave - got no magical advice for that, other than to say 's/he who hesitates, nose dives'.

Hope that helps!

[RinkyDink]

I work out so I can surf. When the actual surf is big enough to prevent me from getting out, I just work out in the surf. That means I try to get out back anyway. I usually fail on those ridiculously big, short period swell days, but it's a great workout. Actually, it's as brutal a workout as you want it to be. Once I completely exhaust myself (doesn't take long) on the paddle out attempts, I just practice in the whitewash or head for a cafe. It's all about time in the water. The best way to improve your paddle-out is to paddle out.

[dtc]

The best way to improve your paddle-out is to paddle out.

The best way to improve your paddle out is to be smart about paddling out - use rips, use the period between set waves, get your timing right, paddle hard when there is a bit of freedom, paddle in from a different spot and paddle around etc. Oldman talks about paddling out somewhere distant from the peak and then paddling across; I've stood in white water for 5 minutes waiting for a break in the waves (its not being lazy!)

Although, of course, the more paddle fit you are the easier any paddle out will be

[BoMan]

Is there a better way of getting back on the board after a turtle roll? I just muscle my way back on but after 3 my arms are shot.

Beyond the good advice posted, you can try...
The Popper - As the white water wall gets close, slide back on the board to get the nose up, stand on the tail and push on the nose to force the board over the oncoming wave.
Sea Anchor - Once again, slide back to get the nose up and egg beater kick so that your back faces the oncoming white water. After it passes, egg beater forward to continue paddling.

Is there anything else I can practice whilst playing in the white water?

If you ride a longboard, try cross stepping with WKKKChan's Blog.
http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?day=20160716

Is there anything else I can do to improve my fitness?

Swimming - Go once or twice a week to a local pool and build your strength. It REALLY HELPS!

[Big H]

I slide my right hand down the rail to a point that will wind up being at my waist and keep the other closer to the nose where I had grabbed initially to turtle roll....pulling the board to me as I roll, the lower hand acts as a kind of shelf that I can brace against and lean into, helping to get my body back on and aligned on the board faster since every second counts when you're trying to get outside in between waves.....

[waikikikichan]

Are you doing a full roll or half/half ? I slide/roll of the left side of the board and flip it deck down spinning counter-clock wise ( anti-clockwise for Jaffa ). Then I throw it back over clockwise. And get back on from the left side again.

[Millsy82]

Thanks for all the replies.

I think I have watched that video about a thousand times now and every day I go out with it in my head, I have also found holding the board closer to the nose has helped a lot as I was being pulled a lot further back so a bit of reading and I tried it the one day and found I didn't go back at all.

I do quite possibly death grip the board as I do pull it down with some force. I will try relaxing a little over the weekend.

I tend to go all the way round so I go over on my right hand side then come back up on my right hand side. Not sure why but I've done that since starting.

I have tried to do the smart thing whilst getting out and use rips, timing and paddling out elsewhere then paddling up, I've even watched where everyone else gets in and paddles out and try it there but on certain days I find it impossible to get out in between sets and it seems to be I make great progress then the sets end up on my head, I mess up getting on the board quickly then end up going backwards then I lose all confidence and end up catching a wave in.

As for nose diving an instructor has said it's down to 2 things either not paddling hard enough or popping up too late/ hesitating which I know I do as I do think if I mess it up I'm back in the breaking area and got to fight my way out again.

For the fitness over the past 2 sessions I have gone out and paddled as hard as I can and do as many turtle rolls as possible and just not stop paddling until I can't do it anymore then I come in. My last 2 sessions have been under an hour each but I've come off feeling I like I did during my 2 hour sessions in the summer months as what I tended to do was paddle out the back sit for about 5-10 minutes catch my breath and let my arms recover then catch a wave and paddle back out and do the same again.

[dtc]

Sounds like you know what to do - which is a great start. Now 'all' you have to do is do it!

Good luck.

[pmcaero]

I have also found holding the board closer to the nose has helped a lot as I was being pulled a lot further back so a bit of reading and I tried it the one day and found I didn't go back at all. .

That's what I was going to suggest. I think the closer your legs around the board are to the nose, the deeper the nose goes, which makes the onrush of water push the board further down , under the moving layer of whitewater.

I was pleasantly surprised by the very small loss of progress last time I turtle rolled, since I hadn't attempted that maneuver in a long time.

[oldmansurfer]

Watching what others do to get outside is helpful but often they have other boards and skills that you lack. What I usually do is to observe the break and look for an entry point that is relatively safe as in no shallow rocks or reef to navigate and no surfers riding waves in that area and also the shortest route to outside of the breaking waves so it has the shortest distance you have to paddle through the surf. I also look for currents and try to take that into account. This spot where I surf is often 20 to 50 yards away from the break I want to surf. So once I get out past the surf I paddle over to where I want to surf. During this time of observing the break I also look for peaks that I want to ride and figure out approximate lineups on the beach for those peaks.
To go through the surf I often start by walking my board out. I carry my board and let the whitewater hit my legs and walk till it gets closer to the break if possible then I might wait in that area for a break in the waves and paddle quickly during that break out. I will lean forward and hold my board above the surf. I used to do this bodyboarding so it was a skill I had prior to surfing and sometimes my board is over my head and my head is under whitewater as the wave passes but I am 6'2" and 210 pounds. I do orient my body sideways so there is less drag on my body as the wave goes by. If it's too big I will grab the nose of the board and dive down under the wave.
If I have to paddle through then if it's really small whitewater I just keep paddling and arch my back so the tip of the board goes over the whitewater and keep right on paddling. if it's a little bigger I paddle till the wave almost reaches me then grab the board next to my shoulders and push the nose of the board under the whitewater and the whitewater goes below my chest and over the board. If it's bigger than what will fit between me and the board I push up similarly but shift my weight back over the tail so the board angles up and goes over the whitewater. I drop back down and paddle as soon as possible or maybe even just stick my arms deep in the water to keep from being swept back and then paddle as quickly as possible. If the waves are bigger than that then I do a maneuver I call a duck dip. I keep paddling till the wave is almost on me then grab the nose of the board and shove it down below the whitewater sort of like standing on my hands but I grab the board with my legs and when the wave hits my exposed rear end I pull the nose of the board up pivoting off my pelvis like I am sitting on the board underwater. Then as the board comes up I lay back on it and start paddling. If it's bigger what I think I can handle with that then I do a turtle roll. Anyway as you are learning there are all these ancillary skills to learn such as skills that help you to get out through the surf. Watching the others helps but if they are good surfers and you are not then just taking notes and practicing these things out of their way is the thing to do.

[noformalites]

That was really well put and wonderful. Thank you OldManSurfer!

[Banana]

Here are some things that have helped me:

I'll wait a long time for a lull between sets. While I'm standing and waiting, when whitewater comes, I push down on the tail, putting the nose up. The board goes over the wave easily.

If the lull is good/long enough, I paddle out slowly, not reaching far forward, and saving my energy for catching waves. This can make the difference between a two-hour session and a four-hour session.

Turtle rolls really tire me out, and I suspect that part of it is that I expel too much air in an effort to not get water in my nose. That may contribute to my fatigue.