Beginner: 7.6 Addvance vs 9.0 Longboard

[Oldie]

Hi all,

I am a 50 year old Beginner (started last year) and have surfed about 25 days so far. I am in Europe and will mainly surf the North Sea and the Spanish/French Atlantic coast. I will mostly surf during vacations or on a few weekends as my closest spot is a messy North Sea location (Scheveningen in Netherlands), about 2h away. I expect to surf about 25-30 days per year,

I am very fit and do lots of sports. I have been windsurfing for 30 years and skiing for more than 40 years. I am 6.3 and weigh 90kg.

Paddling out, positioning for Waves and catching Waves works fine, but I struggle to do early takeoffs.

The first board I rode on was a 8.4 Mini Malibu, about 65l Volume. I bought my own longboard at 9.0 x 23 x 3 1/4 with a pretty low entry rocker and 77l volume. I chose that as I felt I needed more support to catching waves and paddling, not because of an interest in longboarding. Meanwhile my paddling has improved quite a bit so maybe I could have stayed shorter. But while I now get more waves, I pearl very often, much more than with my Mini Malibu. It has come to a point where as soon as I feel ready to take off and see all that nose in front of me, I freeze. Another challenge is that in the North Sea with its short period wind swells you need to react very fast as the waves raise quite fast and at varying locations - there is hardly ever a clearly defined peak. And here i feel the length of the longboard a bit of an obstacle. Now I know that I need to work on technique and speed and aggressiveness, and will continue to do so. But I wonder if it would help me ease my mind and get more relaxed if I went shorter and wider with the Addvance 7.6 that has almost as much volume as my longboard. But I don't really know what to expect from such a change and wether that would work.

What are your thoughts?

[oldmansurfer]

Try taking off at an angle. It's a little harder to paddle but easier to not pearl

[oldmansurfer]

Perhaps there are boards that will pearl less but you can learn to not pearl with that board. Pearling is just a phase till you figure out how to not pearl. You are only surfing about once every other week which will make for slow learning. You might want an even bigger board to make it easier. Or surf more

[icetime]

Pearling is all in your mind, I'm serious, if you think you're going to pearl, you pearl, when you paddle into a wave commit fully to it, also if it's too big of a wave do take off at a 45 degree angle of the direction you want to go because once it's past around 6 ft you start to pearl if you go straight.
But for me, my issue was actually my board, I used to pearl a lot because the board I had was too long for me to control fully but once I took a shorter one I was able to surf without pearling, I'm not sure if it's the case for you.

[oldmansurfer]

I pearl just as much with a shorter board as a longer board with or without nose rocker on steep or not steep waves (which is not often). There are skills involved which once learned will keep you from pearling except in out of control situations. Shorter boards and nose rocker might help a smidgen but then it won't at all if you can't catch the waves because you don't have the paddling skills or power for a shorter board.

[waikikikichan]

1)Paddling out, positioning for Waves and catching Waves works fine, but I struggle to do early takeoffs.
2)It has come to a point where as soon as I feel ready to take off and see all that nose in front of me, I freeze.
3)But I wonder if it would help me ease my mind and get more relaxed if I went shorter and wider with the Addvance 7.6 that has almost as much volume as my longboard

1) That means you need to work on timing with your current board. You said you are in good physical shape, so you must be able to paddle correctly ? If not, then work on that too, but timing and positioning are more important than power and Float volume.

2) Why do you freeze ? Because you see the nose go under. Remember, where you look is where you go. Look down go down. Your attempt to stop pearling, leads to pearling. You should be looking up and out. Out of sight, out of mind. Don't look at the nose.

3) You said you have a problem with early take offs. Not sure what you mean ? If you meant getting to your feet quickly when the wave steepens , then you mean Late Take Off. If that's the case, a shorter board might not get you in early enough ( with your timing,positioning problem ). The tail will get picked up by the wave jacking up and you'll get flipped over like a pancake.

[Oldie]

1)Paddling out, positioning for Waves and catching Waves works fine, but I struggle to do early takeoffs.
2)It has come to a point where as soon as I feel ready to take off and see all that nose in front of me, I freeze.
3)But I wonder if it would help me ease my mind and get more relaxed if I went shorter and wider with the Addvance 7.6 that has almost as much volume as my longboard

1) That means you need to work on timing with your current board. You said you are in good physical shape, so you must be able to paddle correctly ? If not, then work on that too, but timing and positioning are more important than power and Float volume.

2) Why do you freeze ? Because you see the nose go under. Remember, where you look is where you go. Look down go down. Your attempt to stop pearling, leads to pearling. You should be looking up and out. Out of sight, out of mind. Don't look at the nose.

3) You said you have a problem with early take offs. Not sure what you mean ? If you meant getting to your feet quickly when the wave steepens , then you mean Late Take Off. If that's the case, a shorter board might not get you in early enough ( with your timing,positioning problem ). The tail will get picked up by the wave jacking up and you'll get flipped over like a pancake.

Many Many thanks for this feedback.

1. I have worked on rhythm and technique and my paddling as such has improved quite a bit. Timing and positioning may be an issue.

2. Excellent advice! This is a great tip I will work on.

3. No I actually meant not taking off early enough and for me that was more the freezing issue, but good hint with timing and positioning.

I understand I can fix my issue with improving my technique and your advice for this has ben excellent. I can stay with my longboard and i probably will. Independent of that, do you think the Addvance 7.6 would work?

[waikikikichan]

3. No I actually meant not taking off early enough and for me that was more the freezing issue, but good hint with timing and positioning.

I understand I can fix my issue with improving my technique and your advice for this has ben excellent. I can stay with my longboard and i probably will. Independent of that, do you think the Addvance 7.6 would work?

Still not clear on what you mean by not taking off early enough. Do you mean the physical popping up to your feet ? Or the time you start paddling ?

Going from a 9'0" to even a 8'2" is a big difference. Only you can answer that question. Best to try some demo boards or a friend who has a 7'6". But on a dumpy quick beach break, Yes it might be a bit easier to fit into the wave. ( but don't get a 7'6" to solve your pearling problem )

[icetime]

Pearling is also caused by you not arching your back before a popup, the position of arching your back moves your weight back to the tail pulling the nose from under the water, when you're on the board and taking the drop keep your weight a little bit lower on the back of the board as if you were carving then once you reach the bottom push your weigh back forward and turn, that's how I do it atleast.

[Oldie]

Still not clear on what you mean by not taking off early enough. Do you mean the physical popping up to your feet ? Or the time you start paddling ?

I think I paddle early enough. But between feeling the acceleration of the wave and getting to my feet, i just hesitate too long. The pop up as such, according to my coach, is fast enough and correct, just too late.

[Oldie]

Pearling is also caused by you not arching your back before a popup, the position of arching your back moves your weight back to the tail pulling the nose from under the water, when you're on the board and taking the drop keep your weight a little bit lower on the back of the board as if you were carving then once you reach the bottom push your weigh back forward and turn, that's how I do it atleast.

That fits well with the other advice of looking forward and not down, right?

[waikikikichan]

I think I paddle early enough. But between feeling the acceleration of the wave and getting to my feet, i just hesitate too long. The pop up as such, according to my coach, is fast enough and correct, just too late.

Who knows, when you think too much, you might be paddling/setting up too late. If you paddle too early the wave breaks on your back. If you paddle too late, you get drawn too far up the face. Meet the wave just as the batter meets the thrown ball at the right moment.

You hesitate, so is that the boards fault ? Will a shorter board solve your hesitation ? Is it the bats fault or the batter's swing ?

You have a coach, why are you asking advice from people who have never seen you surf ? Too many cooks spoil the pot. Trust in his advice ( might as well since you're paying for it ). * What is his opinion on you wanting to get a 7'6" ? *

[icetime]

Yeah take advice from your coach and take a look at some youtube videos, this channel helped me a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/user/surfcoaches
>That fits well with the other advice of looking forward and not down, right?
That's correct, that's a stage when you're starting out, I did it too, it'll come with time, you'll figure out that looking forward makes you use your chest and hips to turn instead of just your feet, it makes turning and balance so much easier, you may be overwhelmed with so many different things to keep in mind, arching your back, lifting your head, bending your knees, but do one at a time and slowly start combining them and eventually it'll become natural to you to do them without thinking about it.

[Oldie]

I hesitate because of my many nosedives, and thought that a shorter board could help me get more trust and overcome this hesitation.

"Dumpy quick beach break" describes the North Sea well....

I have not discussed this with my coach yet. We just meet a few days per year and he is 800km away, so unfortunately no constant observer,

[icetime]

I hesitate because of my many nosedives, and thought that a shorter board could help me get more trust and overcome this hesitation.

"Dumpy quick beach break" describes the North Sea well....

I have not discussed this with my coach yet. We just meet a few days per year and he is 800km away, so unfortunately no constant observer,

I still hesitate, if you surf a beach break with no reef, then there's nothing to fear, take all the wipeouts you can, if it's a close out, go for it, take all the waves not just the perfect ones so you can get a feel for how each wave reacts when you're on it, surfing is just paddling and taking beatings, keep that in mind, work on your paddling and ability to wipeout, they're most important parts of surfing in my opinion.

[oldmansurfer]

The thing that is interesting to me is that many surfers independently develop their own theory of pearling. Often several themes regularly appear. The thing is you are riding a relatively flat board on a curved surface and changing the board from a vertical position to a horizontal one. It really amazes me that we can takeoff and drop down a wave. It looks so simple yet it's very complex. You will develop a feel for it eventually. On a steep wave there is too much decisions to make to think "Now let's see, should I put more pressure on my back foot or...angle the board or...both?" By the time you think it all out it is too late.

[icetime]

The thing that is interesting to me is that many surfers independently develop their own theory of pearling. Often several themes regularly appear. The thing is you are riding a relatively flat board on a curved surface and changing the board from a vertical position to a horizontal one. It really amazes me that we can takeoff and drop down a wave. It looks so simple yet it's very complex. You will develop a feel for it eventually. On a steep wave there is too much decisions to make to think "Now let's see, should I put more pressure on my back foot or...angle the board or...both?" By the time you think it all out it is too late.

Word to that, with time you do all of that unconsciously, if you think about anything in surfing you'll wipeout, there's only you and the wave

[dtc]

The general cause of perling is not the nose but the tail being hit by the wave and lifting up, as waikikichan said. That drives the nose down. This happens because the speed differential between the board and the wave is too great. Think of a rear end car collision. If the back car is doing 80 km/h and the front car is doing 10km/h, then the impact is violent and the rear of the front car gets push up and so forth. But if the front car was doing 70 km/h, then the impact might just push the front car to going a bit faster and that's it.

So its generally down the paddle speed. Not always - as the others have mentioned, it can be looking down at the nose (tilting the nose downwards), being in the wrong place (just too late) etc. The back arching thing is useful to correct the board when its at the wrong tilt (the opposite of looking at the nose); while angling the board gives you some extra leeway because the angle isn't as steep. Nose rocker is not really about perling (its about turning), but having the nose an inch higher and the board with a more rounded curve can help out.

All beginners perl - just go and watch a surf class. They think they are paddling hard, think they are going well but its really obvious from the beach that they aren't.

However one area where longboards can struggle (in my experience! Some of the guys here are much better at longboarding than I'll ever be and probably will disagree) is short period waves (ie the time between waves) where the waves aren't very big (under chest high faces). The problem with longboards is that it takes a while to turn them and get them up to speed - they are long and heavy and require more effort. And if you are only starting your paddling mere seconds because the wave arrives because the wave period is so short, then you just cant get the speed up in time to stop perling. The smaller waves can mean that your nose is then near the flats (flat water in front of wave) and just digs in. Note that here I am talking about under 6-7 second period; above that time and the period of the wave is not an excuse

You can mitigate this - and indeed regardless of the wave period - by facing the board toward the beach at all times ie don't spin and start paddling; be ready to start paddling at once. Go a bit further out and start paddling earlier. Make sure you are in the most efficient paddling position, that you are properly placed on your board. Get stronger at paddling so you can really hit that accelerator. Combine with angling and arching your back and the various other techniques and you will solve the problem. You don't need a different board to solve the problem, but you do need to learn somethings - every needs to learn them and everyone went through a period not knowing them (and perling...)

However, you may find you can mitigate perling a little bit in short period swell by going for a shorter board with more rocker that allows you to get up to sufficient speed quicker and gives you an extra inch or two leeway. And a fatter tail can help. Its impossible to say without knowing exactly what you are doing wrong or doing right. And a shorter board wont help at all if you have a long period, because the shorter board is all about helping you get your speed up faster - if you have a long period then you have no excuse on this front.

The Addvance is a high volume board and seems at first to be a good 'first transition' board - but I do caveat this by saying that packing a lot of volume into a smaller space doesn't necessarily mean the board is easy to surf. It might be too corky, just sitting on top of the water and hard to control. At 90kg that might still be the case for the 7ft6. Secondly the additional rocker creates its own paddling issues (slows you down a bit) and, thirdly, a narrower nose is less stable than a wider nose. You may be better off with a more traditional mid 7ft funboard with a touch more rocker than your current board. I haven't surfed the Addvance, however

I'll end the missive by saying this: every person who starts surfing at some stage thinks a different board will solve their issues. Rarely will that be the case. People who are surfing smaller boards went through and overcame your problems and thats why they can successfully surf smaller boards.

However, once its in your mind that you want a new board it will eat away at you and eventually - now or in a year - you will succumb and buy a new board to try out. Its part of surfing (then you will buy another and another and so forth). So you could just tell yourself 'I want a new board, I'll buy a midlength board now and give it a go. If it works - fantastic. If it doesn't work, I'll put it aside for 6 or 12 months and come back to it'. Win-Win.

[Big H]

FWIW, I had a pretty good day on a longboard a few months back in sloppy onshore crumbling short period windswell....waves were all over the place, 4-7ft that day....the weight of the longboard helped with the general crap chop conditions and made it easier to catch the gutless waves.....timing was pretty critical as was acceleration....waiting for a good shape between waves, where the period was slightly longer, the trough slightly cleaner and the wave jacking just a bit more....would cork the board (sit on the tail, push it down and frog kick and start to paddle on the rebound) and paddle like hell....the other way I was getting in was to spot the wave as it came in and start to paddle half speed for the wave in front of the targeted wave, then gun it as that wave rolled under....have to allow a little for distance to the intended catch area but helped since trying to get up to speed quickly in pitching, sloppy short period chop is not easy.

I traded the longboard in mid sesh and went back out with a smaller board that day to see the difference.....had success on this big volumed fishy board I had that was 6'4" vs the 9'6" longboard. Easier to accelerate the board, but harder to catch the weak, gutless waves and I had to catch as the wave crumbled then escape the foam to get to clean water which was not the case with the longboard that allowed me to get on earlier and get out onto the wave clean.

IMO you probably just need to learn to paddle more effectively and surf more....longboard works really well in those conditions, better (and easier) than the shorter board though neither surfs themselves.

[Oldie]

However one area where longboards can struggle (in my experience! Some of the guys here are much better at longboarding than I'll ever be and probably will disagree) is short period waves (ie the time between waves) where the waves aren't very big (under chest high faces). The problem with longboards is that it takes a while to turn them and get them up to speed - they are long and heavy and require more effort. And if you are only starting your paddling mere seconds because the wave arrives because the wave period is so short, then you just cant get the speed up in time to stop perling. The smaller waves can mean that your nose is then near the flats (flat water in front of wave) and just digs in. Note that here I am talking about under 6-7 second period; above that time and the period of the wave is not an excuse

In the North Sea, 2-3ft at 6-7s is a dream day! Very often you get 4-5s. HIgher Waves almost always come with very strong onshore winds. Longer periods than 7s are extremely rare.

Good advice though to keep the Nose more towards the Beach at all times in that situation, I will try that next time.