trying to improve my frontside bottom turn...

[pmcaero]

Very small waves, but, am I getting the mechanics right for setting up a better ride down the line?

[dtc]

Wave 1: I thought you looked really good until just after the moment you popped up, when you then seemed to stand there and not do anything - you could have tried to turn even on that wave. You popped up, waited a moment, then stood up, then went straight.

Wave 2: not sure if you could have made it round that section that broke just as you popped up, so its harder to tell. But again you seem to do everything right, pop up and...go straight. You actually looked like you were going to trim along the wave - if I stopped it half way through your pop up and asked people what was going to happen next, I reckon most would say 'set up to turn right'

All you need to do is twist your upper body a bit and put some pressure on the toes of your rear foot and push the nose around - and go along the wave 'on' the wave ie 1/2 up the face.

Looking better though than before

[IanCaio]

I don't feel like I'm in a place to be a teacher yet, but I noticed a few things, who knows it might be of help..

On the first wave it seemed like you were about to start a turn, then your body leaned back and you didn't go through with the bottom turn. You have to lean forward on a f/s bottom turn, how hard you have to lean is up to your speed and how sharp the turn will be (not much sharp there), but that's not something you will have to think about. You'll just feel how far can your momentum hold you. But you have to commit to the turn. You probably could have done that bottom and set your line on this wave, but you leaned to the wrong direction and stopped the turn as you were about to start it.

I also think you seem a bit too stiff, specially on the second wave. At least I had this impression. Skateboarding is something could help loosing yourself up a bit, trying some slides (without much speed if you don't want to risk some road rashes!), or just cruising one side to the other. That's how a bottom turn should feel. When you turn on a skateboard you don't think about how much you need to lean, you just kinda feel it.

And damn, that water seems cold! Guess I'll stop complaining about water temperature here

[drowningbitbybit]

Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm slapping puppies on these threads...

...But that's not a bottom turn. A bottom turn needs a top to go from and a bottom to turn at when you get to it... those waves are too small to be doing a real bottom turn (except maybe on a groveller). That's simply taking off at an angle and/or turning onto the face (hard to tell from this angle). I'm not just being pedantic - it's important to know the difference because the techniques and mechanics are two different things, and you're also aiming at a different end result (along the face right at the curl, or back up the face at speed in front of the curl).

But, as dtc said, it's looking a bit better than it was, although... (as I might just have mentioned once or twice before)... ...you pop up, start to turn... then pause (wave collapses... you stop...) rather than flowing around or over the broken section. If you'd really pushed right from the off, you might even have been in front of that section and been flying down the line.

DTC's advice is spot on - turn your upper body more, get your arms (arms plural, not just your leading arm) and your head driving forward, weight the inside rail more... basically do more, do it earlier and do it quicker!

[pmcaero]

Wave 1: I thought you looked really good until just after the moment you popped up, when you then seemed to stand there and not do anything - you could have tried to turn even on that wave. You popped up, waited a moment, then stood up, then went straight.

Thanks, I think you are spot on. After attempting something new, in this case popping up and turning the board into the face at the same time, I do pause, as if trying to process what I did.

This maneuver is something I haven't tried too many times.
I dunno what to call it, but I see people do it all the time. I don't know if it's the bottom turn itself,since it usually happens more towards the top of the wave, or just a "shuffle pop-up" . But on frontside turns it helps set the board to ride down the line. I guess getting bogged down on terms is unproductive. Bottom line is I should have followed it with more turning .

[pmcaero]

. Skateboarding is something could help loosing yourself up a bit, trying some slides (without much speed if you don't want to risk some road rashes!), or just cruising one side to the other. That's how a bottom turn should feel. When you turn on a skateboard you don't think about how much you need to lean, you just kinda feel it.

I have an issue with skateboards for surfing practice. Unless you have a real carving front truck, you can get into bad habits as the skateboard will turn from front foot pressure. This would stall a surfboard by digging a rail.
I do practice on a skateboard (2 actually) but I end up being stiffer because I try to emulate a back-footed surfing stance during turns.

[waikikikichan]

I don't know if it's the bottom turn itself,since it usually happens more towards the top of the wave, or just a "shuffle pop-up"

You're doing some type of Hip Jive Watusi Shuffle. You can see you swing your hip back and then really hard forward. But it's just YOU moving back and forth over the board, the board is stationary. Can't explain the full image but something like a base runner swinging back and forth ready to steal a base. Or as a kid standing in the middle of that double bench swing. You need to push the tail and rail into the wave. Your trying to SCOOT SCOOT you way up the wave.

I'm going to get blue in the face trying to keep telling you to just stand up and do nothing. I think you should try putting your hands on your hips after you pop up. You could also do that skating to locked out the arms and focus on the leg movement. ( i would say put you hands in your pocket, but they might get stuck there )

Bottom line is I should have followed it with more turning .

Turn to where ? There is no where to go in the whitewater. What comes after the Bottom Turn ? Yes, it could turn into a Top Turn. But for most the bottom turn leads to Setting the Rail to Trim. That's where the speed is, the flowing with the wave's energy. Stop fighting the wave and work with it.

[pmcaero]

nm see below

[pmcaero]

You need to push the tail and rail into the wave.

that's what I was trying to do, I think. But just seeing other people doing it, seemed like a bit of leg work and swinging the board that critical instant when you are standing up and starting to slide down the wave.

[waikikikichan]

that's what I was trying to do, I think. But just seeing other people doing it, seemed like a bit of leg work and swinging the board that critical instant when you are standing up and starting to slide down the wave.

That's what you THINK you see they're doing. What you see as a pop, shove, shuffle, hop is not much of a action at all. That is the relax phase after the push. The board actually FALLS UP the wave as it travels with the rolling water rushing up the face. At that moment in time, that's when the least amount of energy is used in the legs, but you're making it into a big effort. Again your theory and timing is fighting the wave, not working with it.

It's a bit like casting a fishing pole. Can't let go the line too early or too late. Can't force it. Can't twist and turn awkwardly. You got to let the flex of the rod whip the line out. Work with the pole. Work with the board and the wave.

[pmcaero]

That is the relax phase after the push. The board actually FALLS UP the wave as it travels with the rolling water rushing up the face.

what do you mean by push?

[RinkyDink]

am I getting the mechanics right for setting up a better ride down the line?

In my opinion, you are getting the mechanics right. If you took the wave in the top video and added a three foot peak to it exactly where you took off, then you'd probably (assuming a successful takeoff) be moving twice as fast along the trough of the wave. That would have probably given you enough momentum to move past the section of the wave that broke next to your back foot. It also would have added a little more of a wave to surf along (not much though). Also, you could probably have taken off at more of an angle on this imaginary bigger wave (assuming you got your takeoff right) and not even had to deal with the broken section next to your back foot. The actual wave in the top video had nothing much to give you. If I put a gun to Conner Coffin's head and forced him to take off on that wave, I figure he probably would have kicked out of it right where you did. He'd look much more stylish, however.

[IanCaio]

I have an issue with skateboards for surfing practice. Unless you have a real carving front truck, you can get into bad habits as the skateboard will turn from front foot pressure. This would stall a surfboard by digging a rail.
I do practice on a skateboard (2 actually) but I end up being stiffer because I try to emulate a back-footed surfing stance during turns.

I meant practice some smooth turns and slides. More like this:


This is not turning using your front foot pressure (actually, I don't think any skateboard turn comes from front foot pressure by itself, mostly back foot and toe/heel balance), but will give you some balance when you're under momentum from a turn. It would also get you more loose, since I don't think theres a way to do a slide like this with a stiff body.

I can't see much from the gif, but as people said those waves doesn't seem to be offering much. Is your break that size often or does it get bigger frequently?

[RinkyDink]

I can't see much from the gif, but as people said those waves doesn't seem to be offering much. Is your break that size often or does it get bigger frequently?

I think his break gets really good at times judging by these pictures.

http://www.surfline.com/photos/#!/galle ... er-january

I think he really needs to get out on a day with a decent sized swell. Here's the surf cam: http://www.surfline.com/surf-report/ham ... land_5131/

[IanCaio]

Daaamn, those waves looks fine!!

Maybe it's heavy for him at stronger swells with those barreling steep drops, but a 2ft swell should give some strong enough surf for him to work with, considering it seems like a hollow wave spot.
For the look of the gifs I thought that was a spot with mushier waves, got me stooked just looking at those pictures

[drowningbitbybit]

I have an issue with skateboards for surfing practice. Unless you have a real carving front truck...

Then get a board with a real carving front truck. You really can improve your surfing with a skateboard, and you can quickly improve your flow which is what you're missing.

I have a Smoothstar skateboard and I was talking to the guy who owns the company - at the moment, the boards say "skateboards for surfers" on them, but from now on, they're going to say "Surf Trainer"... It's so much like a surfboard now that that's where they're pushing their marketing.

You do have to concentrate at first to turn through the backfoot and through upper-body movement, but its a damn sight easier to concentrate on just one thing on a skateboard than it is on a surfboard.

[drowningbitbybit]

Trying to add to what waikikikichan said (not easy!), not contradict it...

You need to push the tail and rail into the wave.

that's what I was trying to do, I think. But just seeing other people doing it, seemed like a bit of leg work and swinging the board that critical instant when you are standing up and starting to slide down the wave.

This is what I was getting at earlier with the difference between a bottom turn and setting the rail (arguing about terminology is pointless, yes, but actually understanding what you're trying to do isn't!)

The big leg movement and swinging the board around is a bottom turn - that's what you need to do if you have loads of speed and you're heading out onto the flats.
What you're trying to do is set the rail and get some speed along the line. You mention that "critical instant when you are standing up and starting to slide down the wave" - that's the last moment that you want to step on the tail and swing the board around, you're finally gaining some speed, don't lose it!

[pmcaero]

Maybe it's heavy for him at stronger swells with those barreling steep drops, but a 2ft swell should give some strong enough surf for him to work with, considering it seems like a hollow wave spot.

Got plenty of good surf this winter and I feel I made some good progress. I'm not yet ready to hit it when its overhead with strong offshores, but we had plenty of good days in the 2-3ft range.

[pmcaero]

Then get a board with a real carving front truck. You really can improve your surfing with a skateboard, and you can quickly improve your flow which is what you're missing.

I have the Atom Surfskate, probably the cheapest surf skateboard around. It's front truck has a spring but it's not a 360 truck. I use it to practice turns weighing my back foot and using my torso, rather than just pressuring the rails.

[dtc]

As DBB says, you want to do a trimming turn not a carving turn. Have a watch/rewatch of our surf simply favourites or google up trimming turns. Old man calls them 'ankle turns' - its a bit of upper body twist and then a push through the ankles (back foot toes or heel, depending on which way you are going).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B7kpAliIB4

have a look at this at around 0.23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ZGbJe5UKk See how she is already looking along the wave before even getting to her feet

This one is pretty good as well - i think it captures your current situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRUwXi4Dd8 (obviously its aimed at women but the principles are sound - and 'use your boobs' is a fairly good mnemonic)

On small waves it needs to be done instantly - almost as part of the pop up or even before as an angled takeoff. Otherwise you are at the bottom, no speed and its too late

I am wondering if you are still a bit mentally conscious of doing the pop up ie its not ingrained muscle memory as yet. Rather you are still thinking about it and that means you have to 'pause' after you have finished before you can move onto 'thinking' about your next move (I feel this is partly wkk's point - you are thinking, doing, stopping, then thinking again - the pause is causing the problems). However, I know its still all new, you arent at the stage of unconsciously being able to 'let it happen' and you are a person who learns through thinking not just doing. But if you can, take off on a wave thinking only about doing a trim turn - look down the line, get ready to turn - ignore the mechanism of the pop up itself, you seem to have that under control.

Its all small steps - in a few months time you will coming back to ask about improving your cutbacks....