narcissism in surfing?

[jaffa1949]

take care of the daily stuff and then go surfing. ............FIXED.

I come out of the surf in a better frame of mind than went in!
Remember SURF washes cleaner whiter and brighter!

To me personally I have no need to justify my surfing, only to say it makes me super happy and appreciative of life. So, I'm always a little confused when someone states surfing is a selfish thing to do.

Forget the confusion of someone else's opinion. You have written the right answer for you.
Once you are in the water it all becomes something for the shore bound !

[oldmansurfer]

Heroin is just a drug. It can do good or bad but has a lot of potential for doing bad. Surfing is just a sport but it also has a significant potential to be bad. I guess almost any sport can do the same but which has a greater potential for harm to the enthusiast? From my experience I would say surfing has a greater potential for harm than many but perhaps that is just because I know a lot more surfers than runners or tennis players or MMA combatants or rugby or football or ice hockey players or .....any other sport. Additionally surfing crowded breaks becomes a selfish endeavor. You have to be entirely self serving or just sit around and let everyone else catch waves. However you don't need to surf crowded breaks so it's up to you For Finnegan it was selfish but he enjoyed hassling for waves.

[RinkyDink]

Heroin is just a drug. It can do good or bad but has a lot of potential for doing bad. Surfing is just a sport but it also has a significant potential to be bad. I guess almost any sport can do the same but which has a greater potential for harm to the enthusiast? From my experience I would say surfing has a greater potential for harm than many but perhaps that is just because I know a lot more surfers than runners or tennis players or MMA combatants or rugby or football or ice hockey players or .....any other sport. Additionally surfing crowded breaks becomes a selfish endeavor. You have to be entirely self serving or just sit around and let everyone else catch waves. However you don't need to surf crowded breaks so it's up to you For Finnegan it was selfish but he enjoyed hassling for waves.

I was talking to a teenage Parkour enthusiast the other day and he played some Parkour videos for me. I told him he should think long term about the kind of stress he's putting on his knees. He gave me a yeah sure-okay-uh huh-will do polite response. I can understand that; I don't want to deny anyone a sport they enjoy. Anyway, one thing I like about surfing is that you can surf places where you can take steps to make sure that if you fall, you have less of a chance of landing on something solid. The downside is that if you do hit something solid and go unconscious, well . . . you drown, which is a bumber. I took a fall today, though, where I pretty much face planted in the trough of the wave and it felt like somebody slapped my face as hard as they could, not fun.

[LostAtSea]

Thanks dor the rhoughtful answers guys, since this thread started, William Finnegan has won a pulitzer for Barbarian Days (well deserved IMO). During an interview he states, (Regarding surfing)

“It’s supremely useless, I think, and not at all ennobling. Which is not to say that a great many people, starting with you and me, don’t get a great deal out of it – even a reason to live. It just does nothing, obviously, for anybody else. It’s the ultimate selfish pursuit. You could argue that it teaches its devotees a few things about self-reliance and the grandeur of Nature – maybe even a little humility – and I guess I wouldn’t argue with that. But in the end surfing, in my opinion, does little or nothing to build or improve character. As we all know, a lot of assholes surf, and some of them surf well.”

I get that some people get wave hungry (Lunada Bay for example) but I think WF is referencing a different aspect of surfing. Does anyone here think surfing is anymore selfish/useless than any other pastime? Good arguments have been made that altruisn doesnt exist, and that all our actions are ultimately self serving. I just dont get why he describes surfing in this way. Why doesnt he just say that any passion one may have takes up one's time. Is there really anymore to it than that?

At the very least, seems like a better option than eating donuts and watching TV. No?

(again, just making conversation, its not a life or death question)

[oldmansurfer]

Some sports require others to play so can't be entirely selfish by nature. Surfing allows one to be entirely selfish or not if they wish. I disagree with Finnegan. Surfing is not selfish but there are selfish surfers possibly more than in other self indulgent sports. Surfing can build character but not in the way Finnegan approached it. It can be a healthy sport or not depending on the approach also.

[waikikikichan]

(Surfing) makes me super happy and appreciative of life. So, I'm always a little confused when someone states surfing is a selfish thing to do.

And what happens when someone takes away your "surfing" ?
When someone drops in on you and makes you wipe out.
When 10 guys paddle for the same wave that you are in position for.
When a newbie paddles in front of you and throws his board into your path.

I think some times we can't be so giving, and take the wave for ourself ( which is selfish don't you think ? )

[dtc]

It's interesting that many people believe that competitive sports have a value, are character building etc (I actually agree with them) but that non competitive activities, such as surfing, somehow are not and are selfish or indulgent. Having played semi high level team sports, you need to be almost an a-hole to succeed to pro level, definitely selfish (another word for 'focused'?) and many people who do not succeed are like that anyway.

[LostAtSea]

Some sports require others to play so can't be entirely selfish by nature. Surfing allows one to be entirely selfish or not if they wish. I disagree with Finnegan. Surfing is not selfish but there are selfish surfers possibly more than in other self indulgent sports. Surfing can build character but not in the way Finnegan approached it. It can be a healthy sport or not depending on the approach also.

Sometimes I think that every single action we do in our lives is selfish - it's hard not to think of anything we do that doesn't serve the self one way or another. That being said, I also disagree with Finnegan. I think it's a pretty narrow view, but mostly just a bizarre way of looking at it.

And what happens when someone takes away your "surfing" ?
When someone drops in on you and makes you wipe out.
When 10 guys paddle for the same wave that you are in position for.
When a newbie paddles in front of you and throws his board into your path.

I do get frustrated with others sometimes, and I am pretty good at checking myself and not be a dick. However, I don't think that's what WF means, or else he would have said that surfing brings out the worst in people. He talked about aggro people in the line- up in his book a bit, but the selfish bit is more of his own reflection on the sport.

I think some times we can't be so giving, and take the wave for ourself ( which is selfish don't you think ? )

I would say so.

It's interesting that many people believe that competitive sports have a value, are character building etc (I actually agree with them) but that non competitive activities, such as surfing, somehow are not and are selfish or indulgent. Having played semi high level team sports, you need to be almost an a-hole to succeed to pro level, definitely selfish (another word for 'focused'?) and many people who do not succeed are like that anyway.

You may be onto something, maybe he's referring to being so ultra focussed on surfing, that nothing else matters. Still, selfish is not the first word I would use to describe it when you are consumed by something.

2 dudes I was in the line up with before I posted the OP were saying the same thing, that surfing a selfish thing to do. I asked them if they read Barbarian Days, they said they hadn't.

Another thought I had was that it was the du jour thing to say. Surfing is a pretty small community, pretty well connected, and ideas/memes find their way into the lexicon pretty quickly.

[jaffa1949]

I had my first chance at a surfing in a long time almost since December, uncrowded not a particularly good surf.
Warm water . The only thought about myself was were my knees back in action. Yes they were Did anything else matter nope. Do I feel good yep, my wife likes me again post surf! I like me again post surf!

[LittleSkink]

as a relative outsider to this world this thread is full of interesting stuff

The sports I have engaged with are pretty varied, surfing definitely feels one of the most "individual", solitary even, introverted maybe - compared to say climbing, which is typically paired and bouldering which can be quite social. Mountain biking, motorbiking, archery, even golf etc all feel less "individual", you have plenty of opportunity to be friendly to each other and chat

Surfing defintely feels territorial, where others do get openly agressive with newbs/kooks like me - something I almost never see in other sports like climbing. An example, I live a few minutes from Stanage Edge with some of the best climbing in the world - there are routes on there everyone wants to do, and they get real busy - but if you arrive and some folks are already on "your route" people chat, they make friends. The etiquette feels much more mellow

My take on stuff is that if someone wants to focus on themeselves and be territorial then thats their choice not mine - any unpleasantness aimed at me (or others) says much more about them than any unintended act or breach of etiquette on my part

My take on this stuff is if we share the same passion then why wouldnt we be nice to each other, help each other out, share the love - rather than pursue it for our own "needs", because thats when it starts to look like a bit like narcissism

[dtc]

I think you raise a good point that there aren't many other sports where it's non competitive yet people actively work to block, harass or interfere with other participants. I know there are sports where people hide spots (climbing routes or kayaking stretches etc) but surfing has the issue even in the most well known and populated breaks

That said, the vast majority of surfers play by the rules, give everyone a fair share, help out and make things pleasant for everyone (so long as those others are playing by the rules). Perhaps some advantages are taken of the less confident at times, but most people don't push it too far