Getting worked repeatedly

[Sandkrab]

Hey guys,

Allow me to get right to it. I have made the jump to a shortboard, as it seems everyone has these days, and for the last 3 months it has been a monumental struggle. I would probably have traded the board, but it's all I have and the funds are not there to allow me to get something else.

I'm 24, 85kg and have been surfing steady for about 2 years. I have learned perfectly well on logs and then a big guy SB at 7'2" 31L. I then picked up a 5'8" 32L hybrid diamond tail. I was hesitant at first but knew the board would float me so went ahead. Anyway, that's what I have and I can't take it back hah. So really it comes down to, why can't I even catch a cold in this thing? I tried all sorts of body positioning on the deck and am now wondering if the fins could be the problem. I have futures F8s and am wondering if they are a bit big for such a short board that doesn't have much surface to plane. What do you guys think? Any tips? I know some people say to manipulate your back arch and then the dropping of your chin, can anyone elaborate on that? Ive been in the water a lot with it and am losing patience. Is it worth keeping the board or would you cut ties and start over fresh?

Thanks boys

[drowningbitbybit]

I'm 24, 85kg ... a 5'8" 32L ... hybrid diamond tail... wondering if the fins could be the problem... manipulate your back arch ... cut ties and start over fresh?

Good grief, you're way out of your league

I'm 85kg, but I've been surfing a lot longer than you have, and my very smallest board is around 32 L, and I still struggle to get into anything on it on anything other than the best of days.

It's got nothing to do with the diamond tail or the fins, it's got very little to do with you arching your back, you're basically just on a board that's much much too small for you. Start afresh - you're wasting your time on a 5'8.

[Big H]

Can't take it back so save for another one....I'm 87kg and 32L is small....it's worth trying medium sized fins in the board but I think you'd be better off with a board that was bigger in every way.

[oldmansurfer]

If you are stuck with it then you need to keep at it. You need to take off at or around the peak and be lined up right where it is starting to break so it's really steep paddle and popup fast. Or find a way to get another board like a 7'2" funboard.

[Sandkrab]

Thanks for all the advice and tips boys! I wish I could get something else, but it's just not in the cards right now. I'm a pretty persistent guy so I'm just going to keep at it. I may try medium fins just to see if I can pick up some initial speed. On the rare occasion I get up, I love the board and can ride some good ones. That's why I am unsure as to how to judge the size. Is a board really too small if the only problem is catch consistency? Should we also consider how we perform on the board on the wave? I am an avid skate longboarder since young, so that has definitely been to my advantage. Also, If I was able to get a new board, what size would you say is good for my size and more performance than the 7'2" big guy sb?

[oldmansurfer]

It's really difficult to say what is the ultimate size board for you but dropping 1.5 feet in length is a huge drop. It's possible that this will be the board for you but it will be difficult for a while. but dropping 6 inches so a 6'8" board would be more reasonable and not such a chore to get used to.

[waikikikichan]

I'm a pretty persistent guy so I'm just going to keep at it. I may try medium fins just to see if I can pick up some initial speed.

Persistent ? If you got a wrong size bike, you gonna keep on riding it ? The amount of time missing waves and struggling would be better spent on a proper sized board. Longboard to 7'2" to............5'8" ?? Think you might of missed the 6'4" fish.

If you really think the Futures F8's are slowing you down, just take out the center fin . I'll bet it makes zero difference in the amount of waves caught.

[Tudeo]

I wish I could get something else, but it's just not in the cards right now. I'm a pretty persistent guy so I'm just going to keep at it.

Persistence is key, you'll need it

And u need better timing, positioning and paddling. Look for the most critical take off position. U will wipe out a lot in the beginning, so don't choose the big days for it. Wiping out in moderate waves is no big deal.

And then, persist. You'll get there, don't worry.

[oldenglish]

32l is pretty freaking big for a 5'8. Should catch waves pretty easily but there's a big difference between that and a 7 footer.

If you can't change the board than change what you can control, your weight. Drop some pounds. I can tell a huge difference between 10 lbs when I'm riding small boards. It's more noticeable than comparing surfing in trunks to wearing a wetsuit.

[dtc]

Fins aren't going to make any difference - think how fins work. The water pushes against them from the side ie the wave creates water movement that is at right angles to the shore, and you ride across that direction (ie across the wave) using the thrust of the fins. Its like a sail boat with a fixed sail - if the tail of the sail is pointing directing into the wind (ie you are going directly downwind) then you aren't going to move. Because the sail is doing nothing, its not catching any wind. Most of the power pushing a board straight to the beach is from the tail (being pushed by the wave) or from gravity (you sliding down the face of the wave). Its not from the fins. If anything, the drag of the fins slow the board down

Catching a wave is positioning, then positioning, then timing (which is really an aspect of positioning) then paddling. You can fix paddling problems with good positioning, you can marginally fix positioning problems with good paddling. Clearly its possible to catch waves with your board at your weight; you just aren't doing it. So I'm taking a guess that your positioning is almost certainly wrong, although possibly you aren't a very good paddler or your timing is stuffed.

If you are coming off a big board, I'll also hazard a guess that you are positioning yourself too far back ie trying to catch the wave too early, and its going underneath you. The short board requires you to catch a wave really late. Like so late you think its about to break on your head.

Try this - try to catch waves without standing up. Just belly ride to the shore. Even hang your legs off the end of the board like its a bodyboard and pull the nose up. I bet you can catch waves because you aren't being overly concerned about catching them late, when they are steep and about to break. If you can do this, you can catch them and surf.

As Tudeo said, you need to move to the critical part of the wave. Stop trying to catch a wave early, catch it late. Once you can catch it you need to learn how to pop up really quickly as well, but that's your next challenge

[Sandkrab]

Some seriously good pointers in here! Im totally fine with admitting that I should not have gotten the board, but we all make mistakes and it's not worth trading since I will lose to much money on it and have to dish out more. I guess I will just have to keep on keepin on, I know it can be done so I'm optimistic. I think my issue is that I'm not used to taking off right as the wave is breaking. That and my knees hit the stomp pad lip so I'm constantly trying to find the sweet spot while prone. With such little rocker it's kinda sketchy to put the nose as close to the water as possible. I'm probably going to skoot up a hair on it and really cobra up and pray not to pearl. I figure the more forward I can get without digging the nose, the most effective planing speed can be had from the stubby thing. Again, thanks for all the help boys, just trying to make the best out of a tough situation.. Oh and as for not taking it out in big days, yahhh, I learned the hard way on that one. Definitely wasn't ready for those conditions with this board!

[oldmansurfer]

It's really difficult to say what is the ultimate size board for you but dropping 1.5 feet in length is a huge drop. It's possible that this will be the board for you but it will be difficult for a while. but dropping 6 inches so a 6'8" board would be more reasonable and not such a chore to get used to.

I forgot to mention that it is also possible that you find you can't make the 5'8" board work for you. It seems a common problem that surfers want to go short so they get a board much shorter than they can learn on and then come here to ask why. Waikikichan teaches surfing so he sees the bad techniques developed by people trying to surf on too short of a board. So make sure you aren't developing bad habits.

[Dex101]

Wouldn't it be worth trying to get a cheap second hand board that is longer and you can ride with the aim of improving to then move down to your new board. either that or sell yours and buy a cheap second hand board that you can ride. I know I would rather be surfing regularly (if I could actually surf that is) than struggling with a board I can't ride at all. put it down as a life lesson. No point in struggling along making yourself not enjoy surfing....

[Sandkrab]

Thanks for the input again boys! Let's say I can get another cheap board, preferably a shortboard shorter than my 7'2" but also longer than my 5'8". Should I stay around the 31 to 32L mark and just look for say a 6'4"? Would the added length help even with the same volume as my shorter board? I just don't want to end up with too much board and effect my performance when riding? Really at 85kg I think 31L is fine, correct?
Thanks boys, I really appreciate the help!

[pmcaero]

Really at 85kg I think 31L is fine, correct?
Thanks boys, I really appreciate the help!

Considering your experience level, unless you are an athlete in some other sport, I think 35L should be your minimum aspiration level. A 6'8" shortboard is about that.

[Lebowski]

Should I stay around the 31 to 32L mark and just look for say a 6'4"? Would the added length help even with the same volume as my shorter board? I just don't want to end up with too much board and effect my performance when riding? Really at 85kg I think 31L is fine, correct?

I am a bit lighter than you, and have been surfing a lot longer, and I ride a 6'5 shortboard which is probably 35 litres or so.

If you can't catch waves on this 5'8, then you're not going to lose any 'performance'. People with little experience who talk about upgrading boards for extra performance or because the current one is 'holding them back' are frankly usually talking rubbish. You need more volume.

Where have you got the 31 litre measurement from for your 7'2? That is a very low volume for a board of that length. Certainly not a big guy shortboard. Either it has more volume than that, or it sounds like it could be a gun.

Very short boards like a 5'8 which have relatively high volumes, are usually small wave 'groveller' type boards, which go well in a certain kind of wave that is not too steep. They generally go poorly in hollow larger surf, due to lack of rocker, excess tail volume and thick rails. However, if you can't even catch the wave then it's definitely too small.

[drowningbitbybit]

Really at 85kg I think 31L is fine, correct?

No.

[dtc]

Thanks for the input again boys! Let's say I can get another cheap board, preferably a shortboard shorter than my 7'2" but also longer than my 5'8". Should I stay around the 31 to 32L mark and just look for say a 6'4"? Would the added length help even with the same volume as my shorter board? I just don't want to end up with too much board and effect my performance when riding? Really at 85kg I think 31L is fine, correct?
Thanks boys, I really appreciate the help!

Google Joel Tudor or Alex Knost. Notice how they are (usually) surfing 7ft+ boards. Notice what they can do - when you can do that, and then feel like you need to be more like Medina or Slater, thats when you can start insisting you need to go shorter.

Like others have said, if you want to stay short then stay short and just keep persisting. If you want to improve your surfing in a more rapid way, go longer and bigger. What is telling you that 85kg makes 32L 'fine'?

[Big H]

1. I bet that 7'2" you rode had more volume than what you are guessing even if it was gunny.
2. I'm 87kg and I can't really make a board w 33l volume (smallest I have) work unless it's at least shoulder high and somewhat hollow. But it duck dives great and I bet that's what you're holding on to.
3. Like Lebo said, grovellers are good for a particular kind of surf and do poorly in others. Not designed to be an all Arounder.

So there is the rub; even if you had a standard shorty with mid rocker and a narrowish tail that didn't lift up super fast and sling you like that fat tailed grov (why you're going on about arching I reckon), you need better waves at your weight and ability. Pros your weight aren't too far away from that volume and if you are missing waves altogether you've still got a long way to go.

Bobbers aren't sacrificing any performance at all.

Be honest with yourself; I don't know how well you rode the 7' board, but unless you could catch every wave you went for, ride front and backside, can cut back, bottom turn, throw a floater, then you aren't being held back by the smaller board and need something substantially bigger (Mini mal, 7' funboard, 8 -9ft board even). If you say you can't get those boards out back becoz you can't duck dive them you have missed another big chunk of your development which is not about physical abilities but in how to learn to read the break and get out back being clever rather than going right down the throat.

Choice is yours in the end but taking a so called step back in size now will allow you to build the foundations you are missing.......guys who belong on 5'8" boards or 6'4" boards for that matter at your size don't miss waves they have the time and space to gauge hardly ever....and that's just the tip of the iceberg as surfing isn't just being able to stand up....that bit is a given....it's about riding the wave and I would assume that if you can hardly catch one there is no way even with "skating & snowboarding" background you could link a bottom and top turn without digging the nose or bogging out at this point.

Get a board you can do that on.

[Big H]

An anecdote for the OP:

I live in Bali and surf just about every day. I'm out yesterday in waves that tourists cream over but by local standards weren't much....shoulder to head high and a little fat. I had a 7' mini mal, other indo beach boys I was with had foamies and big 7' Funboards (they usually are 60kg or less, the beach boys that is). Tourists that were out had hypto kryptos, fire wires, Channel Islands and lost boards, shorties, hybrids and grovellers.

All the tourists could not catch waves....few and far between when they did. They weren't good enough, couldn't read the break and were on ridiculously small boards that are advertised as being "perfect for indo". The few times they did catch turned out to usually be a drop in and they'd get nearly bussed by an indo flying down the line then flipping switch foot mid pump on a foamie.

Don't be the tourist.