Uncle Jaffa Heads to Lombok!

[Big H]

You have baggage I'm not going to argue with. The fact you insist on defending a blatant drop in where he not only hope a wave that I'm well up and riding on but is so unaware he rides right on a left and squarely at me only tells me that you are hell bent on impressing on me that I am wrong in some kind of way mainly because you are strongly against my participation in localism. Brother, that's just how it is. The lineups a zoos and the lack of respect on all sides is standard...localism exists all over the globe....we don't knock people out here like other countries, but we look after each other and we carve our niche. The guy who dropped in on the kid deserved a lot more than what he got, believe me....it never comes to that here. But if you lack respect, don't know etiquette and are in a lineup over your head you probably aren't going to get waves, here, Sydney, Oahu or anywhere. At least you won't get your head cracked here like those other places if you were to drop in on a local kid while going the wrong way, then aggressively go after the kid because you think you can do hat you want and get away with it (the German guy). Kuta has Plenty of space for everyone. Shocking about the Balinese with negative attitudes....how dare they allow their attitudes to be shaped from their personal experiences. I detailed two days only....dealing with people who just don't give a f$&# because they are on vacation and won't ever see those in the lineup again can wear on a person. I was "relaxed" today until I caught a wave and someone loitering in the pits threw their board and dove down pushing their board right in front of me with no where to go then on the next wave was up and riding (6'8" today so with the rest of the lineup proper) and I get dropped in on and knocked right off my board.

We hold a peak sometimes...what a crime...like to have a surf if only for 45min that we hold it where you can take a wave without blatant etiquette breaches. Sorry if that infringes on your Disneyland but guess what? Real people live here. Everyone is free to go to the next peak but since all the waves being caught are by locals because no one else knows where the lineups are (not easy in a wide open beach break) it is like the pied piper and even if we sit on a less than perfect peak surfers follow our pack like bees to honey.

[Tudeo]

"We"....

Worse than the locals, when it comes to localism, are the wannabe locals..

[jaffa1949]

I'm going to lock this topic, let it cool down and compose an etiquette of surf thread.
My reasoning is this is getting to be a you should debate, , there are opinions to be sure but lets keep it a discussion rather than a baggage session.
There is a lot to talk about in etiquette so I've kicked it off in surf chat.
I've unlocked this thread again an d I wait to see how things evolve.
Jaffa

[Big H]

Apologies Unc for expanding your thread into areas I didn't plan or want to go in....obviously a locally very polarizing topic which is more about how different cultures co-exist in this island than it is about surfing...

My last toss before signing off: I have lived here, worked for 11 years, have been married for 12 years to a lovely Indonesian woman, have children that are as much Indonesian as they are American....I am fluent in bahasa, expect to be treated and act as if I were born here to the extent that Indonesians commonly ask where I was born....I am not 100% white / caucasian either....it is what it is and I fit in where I do....I have the unique position of straddling two cultures and being able to choose a side...most don't get that and have to play the cards that they are dealt, however bitter the hand might be....I fit in on both and am accepted by both and operate from the inside of both cultures in question.....that's how it works for me....I don't take comments like the one posted above lightly and wanted to say that while it was a heated debate, it was civil until that comment (that I JUST saw 5 minutes ago) which crosses the line and shifted the discussion from a situational debate to being personal. Very much not appreciated and believe that this should be locked; quite right in doing so Jaffa; again, sorry that it went this far.

[jaffa1949]

Big H thanks for the apologies, I really appreciate that you did it on the open forum too.
I have opened the thread again.
The whole picture around "Surf etiquette" and the different cultures is diverse and full of all the foibles of human nature good and bad.

What a lot of visitors to third world/island cultures do not understand is how much of the native culture has been stripped away by the very tourism that brings all the "wealth" and expectations entitlement that first world countries have.
You are fortunate and sensitive enough ( with family and skin that helps you belong more than a Bule, read Haole in Hawaii Gwilo in China or Gaijin in Japan), to see below and know the disruption that tourism, read, surfing has bought with it.
I have been coming to Bali and Indonesia since 1979 and seen the damage of what I spoken, but I also see the spiritual heart of Bali quietly and strongly beating.
My blessing is that in those early days I took the time to understand and embrace the differences and be accepted as a member of a family too their karma and mine is always linked and I see much of the change that effects them.
Bit of a rant, I do know that you are on the right page.

[Tudeo]

..I don't take comments like the one posted above lightly and wanted to say that while it was a heated debate, it was civil until that comment (that I JUST saw 5 minutes ago) which crosses the line and shifted the discussion from a situational debate to being personal. Very much not appreciated..

Yes I can understand u don't like that remark, but it's just like you said urself in this very thread a few posts before, it's the foreigners that are the true danger on the roads because of their reckless driving.
Remember how this all started with my analogy of local behavior on asphalt and waves?
I can understand people growing up in crowded situations like there are so many in Indonesia, learn certain skills to deal with it. That's what u see in traffic and, my theory, in surfing.
Now it all goes terribly wrong when foreigners who lack that specific skill set do deal with crowds, try to act as if they do.
It always surprises me how the locals can act like crazy in traffic but nobody seems to get angry about it. People here just deal different with Ego matters it seems.
Now you, in contrast, was bragging how u collided with somebody and called it a 1-0 victory.
U missed the skills to avoid collision and in ur view u won..
Maybe now u have better understanding why in my opinion wannabe locals are worse in localism?

[jaffa1949]

Ok you two need to have a jam Bintang session and sort the differences in how you see the situation in Bali panning out.
The traffic an analogy that suits me to discuss further, Bula Gila drives recklessly up a one way street the wrong way abuses a young Wayan for being in the way.
As young both know many tourists are downright ugly in their approach, of that type few respond to polite reasoning and the Balinese way is to avoid conflict by being quiet.
After all these years I have no answer and I shift from aggressively defending to just letting it go.
Sadly I see a culture being thrashed by foreigners thinking because they pay they are entitled.

All the good and bad of human relations are in any surf zone up the crowds and the good relations diminish .
Comes down to what can anyone do to make it better?

[Big H]

As young both know many tourists are downright ugly in their approach, of that type few respond to polite reasoning and the Balinese way is to avoid conflict by being quiet.
After all these years I have no answer and I shift from aggressively defending to just letting it go.
Sadly I see a culture being thrashed by foreigners thinking because they pay they are entitled.

Wise words sir. Thank you.



I have a lot invested here....it's my home in more ways than one....

Not really sure what the issue is with Tudeo....continues to taunt and insult me....a real bitterness which unfortunately is not limited to him....there are a few Bali expatriate pages on Facebook and it is filled with long term expat residents of Bali ranting about their problems with the society and day to day life here....it's that same bitterness and negativity that I seem to be pulling out of our dear Tudeo who finally has a target for his frustrations it would seem. I don't like going to Canggu because this kind of insular attitude is rife there....so common that residents there actually start believing in their own misguided rhetoric.


in·su·lar
ˈins(y)ələr/Submit
adjective
1.
ignorant of or uninterested in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience.
"a stubbornly insular farming people"
synonyms: narrow-minded, small-minded, inward-looking, parochial, provincial, small-town, shortsighted, hidebound, blinkered; More
antonyms: broad-minded, tolerant
lacking contact with other people.
"people living restricted and sometimes insular existences"
synonyms: isolated, inaccessible, cutoff, segregated, detached, solitary, lonely, hermitic
"an insular existence"

I was stopped by the police today...they had 10 guys in the street stopping pretty much everyone, checking licenses and registrations.....I chatted the cop up in bahasa, give my license which he promptly informs me is out of date (I thought I had to the end of the year) and says he's going to give me a ticket unless......
So I keep talking, excuse myself, tell him I'm sorry and that I didn't know and I would take care of it right away....I also told him that if he was going to ticket me to give me the blue copy (a gift for you Tudeo, that is the copy that will require them to appear in court which is something that they never want to do and also something that no foreigner knows to ask for)....he waffled, I told him "maaf yaah pak!" and he told me to move along.....respectful, civil and something that happens to me all the time....last time I actually was out money at a traffic stop was when the police asked if I could buy him a water for my "fine"....bought one for his partner too and they wave when I go by their kiosk now.....nothing wannabe about it T....just join in, the water is fine, be a part of the culture here, talk to the people, make them actual friends, and tell yourself to stop comparing life here to anywhere else....life is what it is here, people drive the way they do, customs are what they are and while you might be experience life as a minority for the first time I'm here to tell you that comparatively, bule "minorities" here have it good compared to brown people in the western world, really not much to complain about......and while we're on the subject, yes, western people are the most dangerous by far on the road by virtue of not understanding the rhythm to the apparent chaos on the roads....like I told you there are pages of unwritten rules to driving here....Indonesians know them but westerners for the most part do not and therefore are defacto loose cannons on the roads as you CANNOT predict what they will do in the same way that you can someone who follows the unwritten rules....it's a fact.

I am finished with this thread; won't be volleying any more insults. And no, there won't be drinks...I wouldn't sit at the same table with this guy now....52 years old and taunting me like an 11 year old....grow up and get in touch with the culture you chose to live in.

[jaffa1949]

I'm locking this thread down again and it can fade away rather than deleting them, I have left the comments in to show the disparities of viewpoints around localism and surf etiquette.
Mix this with crowd and tourist pressure and third world countries V first world country attitudes.
Gives us the combustible situation many newbies find they have unwittingly entered!
Thread locked.
Uncle Jaffa