Some questions from a Kook...

[KoolCook]

Hi all,

Been surfing for almost two years now. Lately, I feel that my surfing skills have regressed...maybe it is just the waves out there...but a few questions:

a.) Turtle rolling - When exactly should I flip over the board? Say there's a 4+ foot wave about to break over my head...should I flip the board at the bottom of the wave? Or just before the breaking white water hits the nose of my board? I feel that if I flip at the bottom of the wave...the white water will hit the underside of my board harder...and if I flip while going up the green face I might risk going over the falls? Also, after flipping over and submerging...there seems to be two schools of thought...one is to extend your arms above your head and keep your body straight like an anchor...and the other is to put one foot on the tail while pulling down the nose a bit with your hands (like a reverse duck dive). Which is the best way? Or is it a personal choice?

b.) Looking back at the wave as it approaches? A lot of waves have been passing underneath my board lately and it is usually because I see a good peaking wave coming...then just madly paddle hard...and then nothing? So, I have tried to look backwards while paddling to ensure that the wave is still coming and that I am catching it correctly. How long do you look before you start making your final strokes? e.g. Do you look until the wave is 4-5 feet away then focus on where you want to go? Or do you keep looking until you feel the push?

c.) Arching back as the wave pushes you...I have tried to do this, but sometimes I feel like it puts the "brakes" on my surfboard. For reference, I keep my legs and knees tight on the top of the board...paddle well...(elbows high..deep strokes from face to hip)...but when I arch back...the wave just goes under me? Might have just been a bad day... Also, should I do the same when the waves are steep? Or should I be popping up a lot faster instead of dropping in a bit late?

d.) Say I paddle towards the beach with a wave behind me...only that it's breaking earlier than I guessed by 4-5 feet and I am "caught inside" now...what's the best recourse of action? Try to catch the wave? Or just keep flat on my board and let the white wash push me towards the shore...then flip around and paddle back into the line up?

Don't know what's going on with me...but my surfing has regressed...and I believe it has a lot to do with how I read waves and timing....but also the bad surfing conditions (e.g. I don't see anyone else at my break catching waves as well except for a few corners/peaks).

It is just that I am frustrated...and perhaps should have LOWER expectations or something...

[oldmansurfer]

I think you need to go surfing more often. The turtle roll thing is a good question but really it depends on how long it takes you to roll. you want to be in place just before the wave hits you. Any earlier and it slows down your progress through the surf. You might try a duck dip in cases where there is a bit of green wall at the bottom. A duck dip is like a duck dive but with a board that you have no chance of submerging so you shove the nose down and your head and shoulders are under water but your rear end is sticking out of the water along with the rear half of your board. When the wave hits you pull the nose of the board up and the wave will push the rear side down. It works nicely in lots of situations. As far as turtle roll I prefer to flip over and push the nose down while diving upside down then brace my elbows on the board next to my face so that if the wave smashes the board down my elbows keep it from smacking me in the face.
When to paddle for the wave is tricky you need to surf more to figure that one out. I do several different things when I am trying to catch waves depending on what the waves are doing and what I am able to do. Typically I wait till the wave is right on me before paddling but that means I am in the right position. Sometimes I paddle before the wave reaches me and either I am not in the right position or thje wave is difficult to get into at that spot.
Arching the back? Not sure what you are saying.

What to do when you are too far inside depends on lots of things and once again you need to surf more. I will sometimes just try to popup on the first bounce of whitewater. Sometimes I will try to stop the board by sitting and let the wave pass me by. Sometimes I will go down the wave laying down and wait to stand up. Sometimes I just bail out (make sure there is no one inside of you if you do this)

I think you need to surf more often.

[Jester]

C. - Don't always arch your back as you catch the wave. I sometimes drop my nose right to the deck just to catch it, then do your pop up once caught. It totally depends on the wave though, the lill buggers keep changing all the time!

[KoolCook]

Yeah, I need to surf more....just been frustrated the last 2 weeks....surfed 4X and 2 times were during "poor to fair" conditions...but caught a few. The other two times were during "good conditions", but couldn't buy a wave....

Oldman, by arching my back..I mean the "slow pop up"...like I do a partial push up...with my pelvis still on the board...and then as the board goes...I slide my feet underneath me. I see a lot of experienced surfers do it...like they aren't in a hurry to pop up...just nice and slow...

[oldmansurfer]

I see. That is what I do when I am paddling for a wave and think I am on it but not 100% sure I am on the wave I push the front of the board down to try to get it moving down the face of the wave. If it doesn't move down the wave I turn around and paddle back out. I do it to check to see if I am on the wave or stuck at the top.

[IanCaio]

I guess oldmansurfer nailed everything!

I would just recommend you get used to looking around you (and towards the wave) while paddling for it. Before catching the wave you should know everything that is going on around you, if there are other surfers paddling in the wave too and if they are deeper inside, if there's anyone in the way, if the wave is getting "fat" (dying out before they reach like it happened sometimes with you). It's a good habit to look around instead of only towards the shore.

What to do when the wave breaks earlier than predicted depends on lots of stuff, like if there are people around you, the size of the wave, if it is just breaking or broke a while ago. Usually what happens with me is I'm paddling to a wave, and it gets steep before I predict, so if I try to pop up the lip could throw me down (maybe one day I'll nail some nice late air drops ). What I do in this case is sit on the board on a very not hydrodynamic position, like sitting with my back arched, weighting the tail. The wave breaks on my back but it doesn't pull me in. On other cases you could bail the board and dive (if there's no one behind you that can be hit by the board).

I see some surfers doing this "back arching" you mentioned, I think it's probably to try to push the board into the wave as oldmansurfer said. I don't do it so far, and I even heard it's easier to paddle in a wave if you touch your chin on the board (something called power paddling I guess). Not sure how it works though..

[Big H]

I had the same dilemma RE waves breaking just outside of where you thought they would while paddling for the wave....like OMS I now either pop with the whitewater and try to bottom turn into the green face or I sit on the tail hunkered down and the wave passes by with a surprising minimal amount of drama....I used to think if I didn't turtle or otherwise take evasive action I was about to be buried....just isn't so in most cases and since learning that I've been able to sit just inside of the area where most of the lineup sits on the lower end breaks I go to which is on the edge of where the once every 202-25min clean up waves break....sitting inside of that I can catch the standard set waves coming through every 5 min with less competition and just deal with the big sets when they roll through....

[drowningbitbybit]

I see some surfers doing this "back arching" you mentioned, I think it's probably to try to push the board into the wave as oldmansurfer said. I don't do it so far, and I even heard it's easier to paddle in a wave if you touch your chin on the board (something called power paddling I guess). Not sure how it works though..

There are a lot of variations on this theme, and it'll depend on all the usual... but...

As you paddle for a wave, keep your head down low so that all your weight is forward and the nose of your board is only just out the water (bringing the feet up helps sometimes too). Then as the wave begins to pick you up and the tail lifts, arch your back and stop the front from digging in - But if you do this too early or if the wave hasn't really caught your board, the tail will sink and will stall the board and stop you from catching the wave. Then once you've caught the wave, using the arching of the back, pop up... there is no pause in between... unless...
... you haven't really caught the wave yet, or if the wave is going through a little fat moment. Then - although your back is arched - have your hands slightly forward of the normal pop-up position, and move your head forward, as if you're trying to peek over a wall. Ta-da! You've caught the uncatchable wave

[Big H]

....or you can hold your back arch without your hands, and furiously pump two hand paddles while wiggling your enitre body like a highly caffinenated inchworm in heat...fun for the rest of the lineup to watch anyway.....

....on fat waves especially, always take 2-3 "extra" paddles to make sure you're in....a slight hesitation when you're not quite sure if you've caught the wave is all it takes to miss it...commit fully and don't stop until you KNOW you're in....

...some book I read about this called the position "baby cobra"....I always liked the mental image of that....poised and ready to strike with lethal intent....

I used to keep a printout of this in my car and read it before going out when I first began....sometimes the same information explained differently is all it takes to make it click....this explanation "clicked" for me....



2) Pop-up method.
A lot of people will tell you should "pop up in one smooth motion". This is by far the least useful piece of advice given to beginner surfers, and you should ignore it completely. Break your pop-up down into three distinct steps:

a) Place your hands on the board in front of you and do a push up. All of your weight is now supported by your hands and by the tips of your toes, just as in a regular push up. Rather than keeping your back straight, however, you should arch it so that only your upper body is elevated; your pelvis should remain more or less planted on the board.

b) Keeping your hands firmly on the surfboard, bring your knees up to your chest, so that your feet swing in under your body like a pendulum. You want your feet to end up pointing somewhat across the board, with your left foot in front and your right foot behind (reverse this if you are "goofy-footed").

The key point to keep in mind in this step is that your feet move forward to be under your body, rather than your body moving back to be over your feet. A rearward shift of weight on a surfboard puts the brakes on, allowing the wave to overtake you. If you find yourself kneeling on your surfboard at any point during your popup, you are probably making this mistake, rocking your hips back to be over your knees, causing your surfboard to slow down. Avoid this mistake by remembering these important words of wisdom: "bum low, head high".

If you find yourself making an A-frame of your body, legs straight, bent at the waist, with both your hands and feet on the board, it is because you have straightened your legs before you should have. Keep your knees bent until your feet are under your body.

Note that this step SHOULD be performed in one smooth motion.

c) You should now be in a deep crouch, with your hands still planted on your board. Stand up (this step is optional).

So why do people say you should pop up "in one smooth motion"? Because that's how it feels when you put it all together on a steep wave. Watch people surfing for a while, though; you'll notice that on gentler waves--the kind you should be learning on--surfers will often hold the arched-back push-up position for a second or two to be sure they have caught the wave before completing their pop-ups. Evidently, breaking the popup down into discrete steps is not just a mental exercise for learning purposes, but an actual, functional technique as well.

3) Paddle smarter, not harder.
The second most useless piece of advice given to beginners is "paddle harder!" Sure, you have to paddle hard to get a wave, especially when you lack the judgement and manoeuverability needed to be at the wave's sweet spot at just the right time, but come on--you're already paddling harder than any of the experienced surfers out there. What you need to do is paddle the right way, using your body posture to adjust your fore-and-aft weight distribution at certain, critical moments.

When you see a wave coming, start paddling to get up a bit of speed. Just before the wave gets to you, keep paddling steadily, but adjust your weight distribution backwards by arching your back, moving your head and shoulders as far up and back as you can (watch some shortboarders sometime to see how they do it). Just as the wave catches up to you, and you feel your speed starting to increase, throw your body down onto the board, simultaneously reaching one arm forward for a final, extremely vigorous stroke (once you have caught the wave, you may have to arch your back again to avoid digging the nose of your board into the bottom of the wave).

I find that throwing my weight forward in this manner is far more effective than simply paddling harder. This explains how an experienced surfer can sometimes catch a wave with a single stroke, while a furiously windmilling beginner just falls off the back of the same wave.

4) Don't grab the rails when popping up.
I already mentioned this, but it is worth repeating here as a separate tip: when popping up, place your hands flat on the board in front of you, rather than grabbing the rails. There is a tendency for beginners to cling to their boards like grim death rather than popping up when they slide down the face of a wave, and having a firm grip on the board will make this all the more likely. Later, when you are a good surfer, grabbing the rails may be useful in some circumstances, but it can hold you back when you're learning.



Cheers!

[waikikikichan]

a.) Turtle rolling - When exactly should I flip over the board? Say there's a 4+ foot wave about to break over my head...should I flip the board at the bottom of the wave? Or just before the breaking white water hits the nose of my board? ...there seems to be two schools of thought...one is to extend your arms above your head and keep your body straight like an anchor...and the other is to put one foot on the tail while pulling down the nose a bit with your hands (like a reverse duck dive).

Meet power with power. Paddle as fast as you can and flip at the very last moment. But if a closeout set is breaking on your head, then nothing you can do. I pull the nose of the board to my forehead, so it can gain momentum to bang my head, cause already on my head. Plus I kick like mad under the water, so I don't believe in the anchor method.

b.) Looking back at the wave as it approaches? A lot of waves have been passing underneath my board lately and it is usually because I see a good peaking wave coming...then just madly paddle hard...and then nothing? Do you look until the wave is 4-5 feet away then focus on where you want to go? Or do you keep looking until you feel the push?

You can GLANCE back, but don't STARE. You don't need to maddly paddle hard, you just need to match the speed of the wave. Paddle smarter not harder. Meaning know when and where to paddle. Watch the other good surfers catch waves.

c.) Arching back as the wave pushes you...I have tried to do this, but sometimes I feel like it puts the "brakes" on my surfboard.

Why or who told you to arch your back ? Imagine this, If I held in front of you one box full of candy ( or gold ) and then one box full of snakes. Which reaction would more mimic your arching of the back ?

Don't know what's going on with me...but my surfing has regressed...and I believe it has a lot to do with how I read waves and timing....but also the bad surfing conditions (e.g. I don't see anyone else at my break catching waves as well except for a few corners/peaks)

You know the How, the good surfers know the When and Where. If no one else is catching waves, what makes you any different ? Some waves just aren't meant to ridden.

Question. How long where you on a bigger board till you moved to a shorter board ?

[KoolCook]

LOL @ my initial post in this thread...

My surfing has taken off since then...I don't know...it's all the little things (slight change in trimming, smoother/deeper padding, catching the wave at a angle, etc..). Was really frustrated last week, but had two awesome sessions this week where I just caught every wave I wanted to...even surfed one footed by accident.

I experimented with turtle rolls...and I like flipping at the very last minute just as the white was hitting my board..I am higher up on the wave, but there's less volume to punch through... (and I liked the tip to kick thru it too).

Arched back....I find it helps on STEEPER waves where there's a lot more power and sort of helps me to read the face of the wave.

Many thanks, guys.

Another answer to one of the questions: I am riding a 9'6" long board. Have been doing so for a year now...the current board I have now pearls very easily, but I feel like I am learning the fundamentals on that one a lot more than my other 8'6" that is very...concave-ish (like a banana) and never pearls as the nose is always out of the water. The weight distribution is different for longboarding than it is for skateboarding/snowboarding. I started surfing thinking it would be a lot like skateboarding/snowboarding.

[CheaterFiveSurfBum]

You don't need to arch your back on a long board. Personally, I think it would kill my back and neck if I did that. The important thing is too learn to read the wave and position yourself in the right spot over the sand bar. Watch out for other surfers and learn to read them also. If there is a local guy who rides the nose every wave, don't sit where you have any chance of dropping in because you will. Once your in a comfortable spot and a wave come's, decide if it is going to break right or left and if you like it "commit" surfing is all about committing. Turn around as early as possible and paddle straight for the shore. Don't worry about fancy angles unless you got it like that in your ability. When you paddle, make sure you know you have your trim right for the waves. Dig deep. Always dig deep. NO elbows in the air on a long board. Don't try to paddle fast. Just dig deep, grab water and use the glide of your longboard. Really important : Keep you feet together. Always keep your feet together, very important. Don't look back, to me that's crazy and counter productive (remember commitment?). Glance to your inside to make sure you won't be dropping in on anyone. Charge!
When you are paddling around on the outside, trim your body on your board the same way you would if paddling for a wave and practice. Usually, you don't trim your body the same way on your board when paddling for a 14 second wave the same way you would for an 8 second wave. If you pearl when trying to catch a wave, try to go with it and pop out the front of the wave when it jacks up. (Sometimes you will do this on purpose on hard offshore days to avoid wind). Once you catch the wave, jump up quick. If your going back hand, squat down immediately and grab your outside rail and pull into wave. If the wave is walling up in front of you, stand up and run to the nose in two or three steps. Keep your weight inside of your rail so your board starts rising up the face. Lean back real far and clasp your hands behind your back with one foot over the nose.

[312T4]

interesting tips here..
but i have to say this: on a longboard it depends on the waves.
I think, as i' m very close to be a leraner still, that you need to understand your board. Where is that you have to lay down for a nice 2ft wave? Once you establish that,that's your meter. Then if you don't catch it, I'd suggest to bend your knees and bring your feet up, near your ass. That would transfer some weight up front. If the nose it's catching water and you feel there's a disaster ahead, put your feet back, or leave them there and raise your chest (your arched back) but don't pop up until it's time. I arch my back only as "nose dive remedy", but you need to feel what the board is doing.
I usually do it in Noosa, in small waves at little cove or national park, with low tide. They kind of "micro tube" and flip you over, even in 2ft size, if you don't work them.