Wave Disputes

[Frenchy]

Hi guys,

I was 'surfing' (if you can define pearling and drinking more than my fair share of salt water as that ) down at a well known beginners break off Phillip Island, Australia the other day, and encountered a situation that I didn't really know how to respond to. There was a few local kids who clearly surfed a lot and knew what they were doing, as well as a lot of us in various early stages of learning to surf. One of these guys kept finding himself right in front of the take off zone, trying to get waves as they broke, and basically getting in the way of the locals/other surfers out in the lineup.

The incident that stood out to me was when one of the teenagers a bit further out got to his feet as the bloke inside was still paddling for a wave, further away from the peak as well. As far as I understand, he had no right to that wave. As he tried to stand up, he caught sight of the teen then fell off. The teen pulled off the back to ensure he didn't hit the other bloke.
Then, to my surprise, the bloke I thought was in the wrong turned around and had a go at the teen. Told him to P*ss off his waves, stop stealing his waves as "he was further behind and could clearly see me paddling for them, yet still went for them"
The teen told him he had no idea and paddled off shaking his head (preventing things getting more heated), while the other bloke shouted stuff back that doesn't take much imagination!

I was closest to this exchange, and it made me wonder, if the teen had snapped back or told him where to go, and it escalated into an argument or worse, should I step in and point out who was right? As a new surfer i felt better off just minding my own business.

Has anyone got any similar experience when they've stepped in to diffuse a situation or to settle an argument?
and what sort of response do you get from the other parties?
Interested to hear some stories!!

[jaffa1949]

Look after the kids, we have a policy at our break that we coach the kids on the rules nicely.
We certainly would be having a quiet word in the guy in the wrongs ear.

He may not have known the unwritten rules but he was being ugly too. Kudos to the young guy for paddling away.
But if you are not sure of the rules or an obvious learner yourself stay out of the fray MR. Ugly is looking for someone to vent his frustration on.
Only step in if violence is threatened and you feel you could defuse it, but do not put yourself at risk.
There is quite a bit to read on this subject throughout the forum.
here is a link to one of a number of similar threads
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=17607

[Frenchy]

Cheers Jaffa, I should have had a deeper look into the similar threads before posting.

I guess i was more interested in what people's thoughts are on stepping in and having a quiet word when needed. And you've covered that clearly!

Sounds like a great policy to have, and I reckon that the rules/ etiquette should be as important to learn as surfing itself! for beginners of all ages
We're all here for a good time!

[jaffa1949]

This is the anarchy when no rules apply and nobody has any idea except paddle paddle paddle.

[Frenchy]

Thats insane!

Trying to go down the line there would end really really badly..

[oldmansurfer]

Sometimes people feel entitled to the surf. Where I learned some of the Hawaiians were that way. They would claim that any wave they were riding was their wave and if you took off first or were deeper in the wave it didn't matter, if they were riding it , it was theirs and you had no business on their wave. Fortunately it wasn't a common occurrence for me and there was always so many waves that accommodating the brada was easy and didn't require any effort. I would just paddle out to the lineup and if they were there I would wait for them to catch a wave as I would normally then catch one. But this guy sounds like a kook.

[waikikikichan]

3 thoughts on the subject.

1) "You can't reason with stupidty". Although the teen was right, it was good he left the situation. Arguing to someone who thinks he's 100% right or was taught that way, is a waste of time.

2) " Mind your own business, or your next !". To him, you backing up the teen might seem like everyone ganging up on him, so he'll get even more defensive. If your not big enough or local enough to squash the situation, leave them alone.

3) That big guy WAS NOT run over when he was a little guy for dropping in. He did not learn the correct rules from experience. All the big guys / locals pulled out when he drop in ( to be nice ). Now as a adult he "expects" those outside of him to pull out. In Hawaii, kids learn fast not to drop in and respect those at the peak. When you come in crying to dad, he'll ask you why'd it happen. Then dad will say " good for you, you deserved it"
( I tried to find the post about how mean a guy was for running into a kid, well this might happen in the future if he didn't )

[drowningbitbybit]

Think of it this way... when the dude finally learns how to surf properly and sits out back rather than catching leftovers on the inside, he'll have no respect from the local crew. No respect = no waves.

[dtc]

This is the anarchy when no rules apply and nobody has any idea except paddle paddle paddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJrUoLE8bPU

I wonder whether they should implement a 'soft board only' policy at that break. Its bizarre - its not even a very good wave.

Staying out of fights is the best way - its (at worst) only one session, there will be others. Someone who is a constant pain is a different story, but best left to more confident surfers most of the time (ie the locals). Otherwise things can get way out of hand

http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/bloo ... 0lwz6.html

[oldmansurfer]

mostly newbies or beginers out at that break. Watch how many fall off on takeoff.

[dtc]

mostly newbies or beginers out at that break. Watch how many fall off on takeoff.

Yeah, I was going to comment that its a good video to watch to see what newbie surfers do wrong. There is a good perling about 1/2 through and some strong rail clenching instead of popping up activities. I think its good to see what people do wrong so you can not do it (or understand what caused what happened).

Except that there are so many people everywhere its a bit hard to concentrate!

[benjl]

Thanks for the video share Jaffa, that is MENTAL!! Thank god for foamies
Also note the lone SUP'er at 1:01

That is just carnage!

Recently i've been getting pretty sick of the lack of diligence of some surfers. Those guys who hog every wave, paddle infront of people, drop in on people and have no regard for other surfers safety. Those selfish, douchebags
Every time i've been out recently there seems to be at least one or two standout characters that match all the above and takes out the fun from going out and wanting a fair wave like the everyone else.
I saw this guy yesterday who decided to drop down an oveahead wave in between two surfers that were trying to paddle up over it before it broke.He probably came within cm's of running them over and could've been terrible.


Have you older guys noticed an increase in the number of surfers at your local breaks over the last 10 years since surfboards have become lighter and easier to ride?
Even in my 1.5yrs of surfing, my local seems to have its car park full all the time now and it's not uncommon to have a surfer within 2-3m on either side of you. More surfers, more carnage and less fun.

[jaffa1949]

Yes days when there might have been 4 friends now 20 16 of whom have never been seen before.
Epic days of 20 who recognized each other from nearby beaches now 60 + .
Blame mobile phones , swell casts , Internet.
There is also the international bucket list for international surfers, so they can say I'm great I've surfed XXX etc no local awareness or respect, then add that for many it is the surf experience they wish to have without any ability.
99% of the massed crew at Super Bank untaught kooks. carnage ensues!

[dtc]

Surfing is just more popular. Don't know why, its such a boring activity....

I think, talking of Australia only, that it really wasn't an activity for a 'nice boy' during the 1970s (Jaffa excepted of course!) - it was a bit of a rebel activity for most people, apart from those that lived right on the beach. In the 1980s there was a bit of publicity with some Australian world champs and it became more popular. Rather than a drop out lifestyle, the cool/soul/hipster side of surfing was promoted (I presume partly why it has taken off in places like Japan). Better (and cheaper) transport and the ability to get to waves, and the growing understanding that you don't have to live as a surfer, you can just make surfing part of your life (to a greater or lesser extent) encouraged more people to surf.

As boards became more widely available for all surfing skill levels, all of the people who started surfing continued. More or less. Better wetsuits, gear is much more easily available and can be cheaper than it used to be. People have disposable income, can spend $500 on a board they surf a few times a year. So now we have multiple ages, surfers from 12 to 65 (or older) around my area; lots of backpackers who just throw a board on the roof .

Although I was at the coast last week and one day was out with 4 people, the next day 2 others, one evening just me. Admittedly the waves were not great and admittedly Australia has about a zillion or so beach breaks, so its not like we all have to pile into one place. Its only ever busy at Christmas time (meaning perhaps 20 people if only a few breaks are working) Still, as Jaffa mentioned, places like Snapper etc are on the list for every surfer to visit.

I hasten to add that this is my perception from a third party perspective - reading about it, talking to people, my views from growing up away from the coast so not part of the surfer lifestyle. people like Jaffa and waikikichan and oldman etc lived through these times, so may have corrections or different interpretations of events

[oldmansurfer]

Funny thing where I live. Before I started surfing (I started at 18 years old) my friends would try to get me to learn because they didn't want to surf some breaks alone like Hanalei where you have to paddle 500 to 600 yards out. Even by the time I started surfing if you wanted to be alone at Hanalei you had to paddle out at 4:30 in the morning. In my neighborhood all the surfers hung out at Wailua beach and even though Kealia beach which often had better waves was just 4 miles up the road they would hang out on the beach and "talk story" instead of surfing. For some reason people were afraid of Kealia beach and it did seem to be a dark ominus beach often and there were stories fo people dying there, but I learned to surf there because it had waves all the time and no surfers most of the time. Now Wailua beach is uncrowded and Kealia is where every one hangs out (but there is more better surf over there) so I surf at Wailua. During that time the populatrity of surfing has gone up not to mention the local surf stars of which there are an amazing amount are respectable people or at least respected During that time also the population went up from 20,000 to probably somewhere about 70,000 now so a double whammy of population growth and growth in acceptance and popularity of surfing although surfers are still thought to be mostly lazy bums by many (except for the surf stars).

[surf patrol]

Although I didnt live through the older days of surfing, it seems like modern surfing has lost a lot of the 'badboy/dropout/lazy bums' only attitudes attached to it. Now its much more accessible as dtc says, pro surf comps make mainstream news, stars such as Kelly Slater, Layne Beachley etc. are well know names, as well as surfing being seen by most as an activity to unwind and get away from modern life.
To me, the fact that Quicksilver have designed this wetsuit pretty much sums up the new attitude to surfing:

[jaffa1949]

Yep!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24381

[Big H]

I was closest to this exchange, and it made me wonder, if the teen had snapped back or told him where to go, and it escalated into an argument or worse, should I step in and point out who was right? As a new surfer i felt better off just minding my own business.

Has anyone got any similar experience when they've stepped in to diffuse a situation or to settle an argument?

I have always been the guy who steps in; have scars to remind me that at times it's safer to mind my own business.
Was at a break surfing with a few locals (I speak bahasa ok) and some bules showed up and tried to take over, snaking and dropping in...interesting because this was the first time I'd seen what turns out to be a common reaction. The locals seemed not to notice, but in bahasa were laughing and making fun of the guys and discussing strategy....no confrontation, they just started to block those guys off any decent wave, setting up right in front of them, paddling across them then waving each other into waves...they included me and made a point of speaking English clearly and loudly so that the snakers could hear "take this one...this one is good for you! "
Those guys realized what was going on and I suppose they didn't fancy their chances and paddled off after an exchange of cold hard looks.

Non confrontational localism...good times.

[Big H]

Just remembered another one...

I'm on the break with about 5 other guys, 3 of them together....I queued for the peak and shifted over when it was my turn...pretty orderly to that point, this peak had a very small take off point and it is a one at a time affair....so I'm on the wave after about an hour of taking turns, I'm paddling for the wave looking at it coming and then "thunk!l". Turning I see one of the group of three had paddled at a hard angle trying to get across me and into the wave but instead I'd whacked him good as I'd been paddling hard for the wave smacking his head and I think bouncing it off the board....he was furious and started to let me have it....I asked him what he thought he was doing going across me trying to snake my wave...he demanded an apology and I told him I was sorry if hit him which was an accident but that he got what he was looking for paddling across me like that...he was bleeding and I asked if he was ok....ok enough to shoot me a mouthful of expletives I guess. His friends weren't too interested though he kept trying to get them involved in various stages of the exchange so he lost steam and they all paddled in....ineas left there still kinda puzzled about the whole thing, took me totally off guard and seemed surreal down to the girlfriend of one of the guys who was fooling around on a bodyboard inside who'd lose her tube top on every good sized set that rolled through, yelling a nasty name in my direction in French no less as they all departed....just weird....

[Jester]

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