looking for advanced paddling technique resources

[WillySurf]

Hi guys! I came across a talk about advanced paddling techniques that come from the swimming world.

anyone has good resources for advanced paddling techniques?

Cheers!

[oldmansurfer]

Her is a couple that I found. Don't know how true these are but sound reasonable

[waikikikichan]

anyone has good resources for advanced paddling techniques?

I don't know about " advanced "paddling , but how is your Basic Paddling technique ? Good paddling is good paddling. It's not like a steel Walmart bike versus a carbonfiber wizz-bang full suspension downhill bomber. A little kid can have a good paddle while a go to the gym everyday sports jock can have a terrible paddle.

Advice - Stop paddling harder, paddle smarter. Move a lot of water a short distance versus a small amount of water a long distance.

Question - Are you already maxed out on your paddling speed and that is why you asked the question ? Or you get tired too fast ?

[jaffa1949]

Like your hair Willysurf you have to get conditioning!
To catch waves you need to be able to paddle like you want to catch the wave,
Pull your strokes along the board not little wrist flicks out to the side, put your hands and fore arm in deep and pull,straight back. You can add some slight extra by pulling your stroke under the board towards the centre line.
Do not flip your stroke out at the end!

[oldmansurfer]

I watched my paddling after watching those videos and noticed that my head didn't move and my elbows are as high as they can go not sure if they are as high as Kelly's elbows but if I go any higher it causes me to strain and rock back and forth. Now I wasn't in a paddle battle with Kelly Slater but I am pretty sure bede got tired first, so conditioning is important also.

[WillySurf]

haha loved the conditioning joke!!!

like everything- you can try to reinvent the wheel but I'm 100% sure that there are ppl out there that had studied, tested and came with proven results. There's rob case (the second vid) - I saw a few of his vids on youtube but he seems to be talking a lot about very little, contradicting himself and just going around and around. All that said, if you guys see his vids you'll pick up a few good tips and see that there is a lot more then you think there is to it.

If anyone knows of something I'm keeping my ears open

Thanks!

[oldmansurfer]

I think in the case of swimming they have studied it but not so for surfing so what can be guessed at? That is applying stuff from swimming and that's the best we have to go with. If you know of any published studies on paddling a surfboard I would be interested

[waikikikichan]

Willy - Question - Are you already maxed out on your paddling speed and that is why you asked the question ? Or you get tired too fast ?

Do you want techniques to paddle faster ? Or do you want techniques to paddle longer ?

[WillySurf]

waikikikichan - I choose the 3rd answer - Both

[oldmansurfer]

I think in surfing paddling is more complex than swimming. In swimming it is flat water with a person no other variables. In the case of surfing you have longboards, shortboards, all kinds of boards, and then paddling on water that is moving and not flat. I am sure that when they get around to studying it they will find some major differences between surfing and swimming or longboard paddling and shortboard paddling and also between paddling long distance and paddling for a wave. When you paddle for a wave the angle that your arms enter the water changes if you get up the face a bit. Anyway I don't think there has been anyone studing it yet or at least they aren't publishing the results in scientific journals.

[Eddy9]

Having a geek moment reading this so here are a few published studies - I certainly won't be needing this kind of detail for a while but it might mean something to you guys!

Association between anthropometry and upper-body strength qualities with sprint paddling performance in competitive wave surfers
JM Sheppard, P McNamara, M Osborne, M Andrews, TO Borges, ...
The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research 26 (12), 2012


Time-motion analysis of a 2-hour surfing training session.
JL Secomb, JM Sheppard, BJ Dascombe
International journal of sports physiology and performance 10 (1), 17-22, 2015

Technique adjustments influence the performance of sprint paddling in competitive male surfers
JM Sheppard, M Osborne, DW Chapman, M Andrews, P McNamara
International Journal of Sports Science and Coaching 8 (1), 43-52, 2013

[oldmansurfer]

Awesome, so they think strength training will help sprint paddling, that surf coaches are training the wrong way, and that paddling with the chest low to the board (not arched and extended) and with arms kept low is the best way to go. No mention was made of longboard shortbords or waves so I am guessing these were not measured variables.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22290522
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24806868
http://ro.ecu.edu.au/ecuworks2013/897/

[waikikikichan]

Willy - In the words of Mr. Miyagi " you ask for too much ". Torque, Speed, and Longevity. Tractors have torque but don't go fast. Sports cars go fast but aren't great for towing. Race cars/motorcycles are fast but need full motor over halls and tire changes, unlike your family sedan's engine that lasts for a decade.

Speed or Longevity, choose one. But I would say most surfers want to paddle faster to catch more waves. One of the biggest problems I find is how the surfer keeps his hands during the entrance into the water's surface. How are you hands shaped ? cupped ?

[Eddy9]

Thanks for adding the links properly oldmansurfer , I'm still working on my forum skills!

I think they were comparing different degrees of back arch rather than none at all. From what I know this research group work with surf coaches and competitive surfers, and the lead researcher is certainly a fairly advanced surfer himself so there might be some points of interest.

At least the scientific method is good - but are they asking the right questions? What do people think? Or what would people on here want sports scientists to look at in surfing?

Having worked in this world myself for a while it seems that scientists are becoming really good at measuring stuff but not always the things that coaches and athletes need to know to improve performance. They are usually super keen to get guidance though...

[oldmansurfer]

Well Eddy9 I think you will get more motivated answers from the pro surfers. For most of us it amounts to how can we have more fun? My interest besides paddling related stuff would be how does board design affect perfomance (doing the various maneuvers)?

[jaffa1949]

Take your time paddling out , choosing a way out that involves minimal ( that's not the board ) duck diving and turtle rolling gives you time to review the waves too.
This saves energy for paddling to catch waves. ( the main aim).
If you are conditioning yourself, interval training will help.
Conditioning occurs naturally when you surf lots. All our regular posters will tell you when something keeps them out of the water for a prolonged periods their match fitness fades dramatically.
Then when we come back it is often knowledge of our favourite break and understanding positioning that get those first few waves when we come back.

[dtc]

Conditioning occurs naturally when you surf lots. All our regular posters will tell you when something keeps them out of the water for a prolonged periods their match fitness fades dramatically.
Then when we come back it is often knowledge of our favourite break and understanding positioning that get those first few waves when we come back.

Talking of which, are you back on the board yet?

Very wise words. One reason why sticking to a small number of breaks can be very useful

[jaffa1949]

I went back last Wednesday and Thursday. Paddled out easy in an uncrowded 4 out perfect chest high surf, first couple of waves I didn't trust my knee much but got a couple of good waves later in the session.
Thursday similar conditions and couldn't control my knee on any wave except one last one which even by my standards was very average, rest of my waves before full kook level.
They were however fast little and hard to nail the take off, and poor old knees needed time to open up. like a rusty penknife
lots of face plants,.
Diagnosis at least 3 more weeks out and different set of applied muscular exercises to balance the entire knee structure and a bit of weight loss to ease the Plimsol line.

[dtc]

Well, inch by inch I guess. At least you haven't missed out on anything good over the last week or so (well, assuming far south was much the same as south/Sydney). Knees are so annoying - I have tendonitis in one of mine and just cant get rid of it (perhaps 6 weeks bed rest might do it - I just cant keep still long enough to have it recover). And there is so much you cant do just because of one joint!

Maybe you will have to take up SUPing... no pop up.

[jaffa1949]

EEEEEK