learning bottom turns...help

[broseph619]

alright, today i was surfing in la jolla (i did pretty well for my skill level today, if i do say so myself )

anyways, i was catching waves perfectly and just riding along down the line kinda..
BUT when i wanted to try to turn really sharp and maybe do a bit of a bottom turn, it just seems like i lose all of my speed when i start to turn back into the wave.

is it supposed to feel like im losing a lot of my speed since im going back up the wave?

another thing, when i drop in, and i drop in at an angle like youre supposed to, but i accelerate so fast, i never really stay right ON the wave. i feel like i just rush right out of it and then that also causes me to lose my speed. its almost like im going too fast and shooting straight out, even though im still turned a little.

any suggestions?

when i pop up, do i need to go ahead and start leaning on one of my arms more than the other one in order to go ahead and start my turn even earlier?

any tips/pointers would be really helpful!

btw, im riding a 6'0 superfish (a slimmed down, more modern fish/shortboard) if that has any impact on this.

[esonscar]

Imaging scrambling up a loose rocky earthen slope, you look where you want to go and go for it - the same with the surfing - look where you want to go and just work the board to get there.

Untidy at first but soon a graceful solid single smooth move as you feel the compression in the legs to move the board into trim on the faster faces.

Loosing speed ? nope – you were not going fast enough in the first place – look at some vids – It’s gotta be steeeep for a move !

Hwyl i chi !

[edit: sp of board]

[Aloha]

If you are coming down at an angle then it's hard to bottom turn especially if you are still in the face. You can't turn on the inside rail in the face easily. You'll have to turn to straighten out, and then do a bottom turn, but you'll probably not have enough speed by then.

The whole reason for all the turns a shortboarder does is to keep him/her in the fastest part of the wave and generate speed. If you are going too far up the line then you'll need to cut back but you'll need speed for that too.

A lot of beginners learn to angle the take off to survive the drop but then they don't have enough speed. So what you really need to do is drop in as straight for the beach as the wave will allow and try to build up as much speed as you can from the drop. Then begin your turn by compressing and bending your knees. You'll have to experiment on how long to delay before you turn, and this will take a lot of practice too. Now put your trailing hand down on the water surface as if you are going to pivot on it and press on your back foot's toes (for forehand bottom turn). Look into the direction you are going to and also point your shoulder at it.

You need to turn through the tail. Turn too far forward on the board, with too much weight on the front foot and you'll catch the rail and stall.

Like all things in surfing you just have to do it over and over and over till you get it right. Once you've got the bottom turn right you'll probably find yourself too high in the wave and losing speed or shooting over the back of it. Here is where you need to learn the top turn. Finding out how early or late you have to pull the top turn is another thing you can only learn from lots of experience.

I wrote about this a year ago and found it to be the right approach for me, my forehands BT's are much better than back then:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11919&p

[john-yard]

While surfing Keep the safety aspect in mind at all times, and everything should be OK.

[garbarrage]

Sounds like you're hesitating on the drop-in. A lot of beginner/novice surfers tend to fight the fall and lean back as they drop in which will slow you down. Lean forward as you drop in and maintain your speed from take-off. This could also be the reason you are outrunning the wave. A good bottom turn will set you up for a good top turn. If the wave is peeling slowly you want a sharp bottom turn into a snap. If it's peeling quickly you want a longer bottom turn followed by a more down the line flowing top turn.

As said already above, as you are starting the bottom turn look where the steepest part of the lip in front of you is and the appropriate bottom turn should follow automatically.

Try to avoid outrunning the pocket into the fat part of the wave but if you find yourself heading that way, try to cut back toward the white as soon as you notice, and before you lose your speed.

[spectrefish]

You need to turn through the tail. Turn too far forward on the board, with too much weight on the front foot and you'll catch the rail and stall.

I love this thread! I'm about at the point where I need to start learning bottom turns and I'm having all the same problems described in broseph619's original post. It's been frustrating me lately. I always seem to bury the rail and that's usually the end of my ride, I always seem to get out in front of the pocket where the wave is pretty mushy. I angle my takeoffs too because I want to avoid pearling.

Some awesome tips in this thread. I'm looking forward to heading out this weekend and trying a few of them.

[jaffa1949]

You need to turn through the tail. Turn too far forward on the board, with too much weight on the front foot and you'll catch the rail and stall.

I love this thread! Good to hear I'm about at the point where I need to start learning bottom turns and I'm having all the same problems described in broseph619's original post. It's been frustrating me lately. I always seem to bury the rail and that's usually the end of my ride, I always seem to get out in front of the pocket where the wave is pretty mushy. Start working on a cut back or a turn back down the face of the wave or put pressure on your back foot to raise the nose slightly and stall the board then just put pressure on the front foot again, a little later in the lerning process you can try the back foot pressure with a swinging of the front foot to drive the board around a stall turn and then repeat your bottom turn technique I angle my takeoffs too because I want to avoid pearling.

Some awesome tips in this thread. I'm looking forward to heading out this weekend and trying a few of them.

[spectrefish]

thanks for even more tips jaffa!

[pmcaero]

interesting, so angling the take-off does not help with the bottom turn...that sounds counterintuitive but I will try out next time

[surf patrol]

If you are coming down at an angle then it's hard to bottom turn especially if you are still in the face. You can't turn on the inside rail in the face easily. You'll have to turn to straighten out, and then do a bottom turn, but you'll probably not have enough speed by then.

The whole reason for all the turns a shortboarder does is to keep him/her in the fastest part of the wave and generate speed. If you are going too far up the line then you'll need to cut back but you'll need speed for that too.

A lot of beginners learn to angle the take off to survive the drop but then they don't have enough speed. So what you really need to do is drop in as straight for the beach as the wave will allow and try to build up as much speed as you can from the drop. Then begin your turn..."

Just found this post and it answered many questions - really good stuff on this forum - now to put it into practice!

[oldmansurfer]

If you angle the takeoff and want to do a bottom turn just angle it less so that you will still drop down the wave. My way to make a good bottom turn on a weak wave is to drop down with my legs extending as I go down so that when the board reaches the bottom of the wave my legs are fully extended but I don't land on the board at the bottom and continue to drop my upper body as I bend my legs and start to turn the board by pushing my feet and leaning. I continue to let my upper body go down till I am really crouched then stop and use that force of stopping my upper body to set the rail into the water then push the turn till my legs are fully extended then release and hop to the top of the wave or forward if needed. On bigger faster waves you don't need to put leg power into the wave and can use gravity to turn just hold your crouch at the bottom and aim for where you want to go then maybe release the crouch to go back up the wave or forward.

[oldmansurfer]

Also if you catch yourself stalled at the bottom of a wave stand up completely then drop down quickly to a crouch and start to turn at the same time then extend your legs and hop back up the wave but be prepared to do a turn back down because it's a weak wave and if you don't you will just go off the back.