Shore break turtle roll hell!!

[Jester]

Hahah, love it! Gonna try that but might enjoy it too much and just stay down I'm always worried about getting belted with the board or gashed by a fin so I wrap my arm around my head and face like an elephants trunk gone overprotective! I just let the wave kinda savage me but the board freaks me out. I do worry when I inadvertantly get my body in the wrong shape and it CATCHES the wave and prolongs the rinse cycle though, it's happened quite a few times now and I'm wondering whether I should start trying to swim down out of it. Does anyone assume a certain position to minimise being dragged further than they need to??

[oldmansurfer]

I try to fall flat and down a little. It's really instinctive but if I am over a shallow reef I fall completely flat (parallel to the bottom) as in belly flop but on my back usually. So this is also usually approximately parallel to the beach. If I am in deeper water I slide into the water a bit so hit at a slight angle from parallel to the bottom. the wave usually pulls the board away from me and I can feel this as I am tossed around. If not then I am more cautious about protecting myself from the board. I don't get pulled around much. I would tell you exactly what I do but it's entirely instinctive. So no I wouldn't try to swim out of it as you will waste energy and oxygen but you might try to fall a little deeper but not so deep as to bottom out On occaison in bad wipeouts where I am caught in the lip I go fairly deep but flatten out there to keep from hitting the bottom. I somehow know to stop within a couple feet of the bottom (so far)

[oldmansurfer]

Back on Christmas day I was goofing around on one of the larger waves that came in and was trying to go aroound a huge section but got caught by the well overhead whitewater right in front of the shortboarders. I dove forward off my board and down a little to keep from having my board get dragged over the shortboarders. It worked but I hit the water with enough force to reach the bottom so if I hadn't chose the right angle I might have been hurt....still it worked well. I prefer to go feet first and on my back but in this case I was leaning forward trying to get around the section so I went head first.

[Jester]

Nice one OMS, at the moment for me it's mainly from meeting what seems like waist high white water on the paddle out that seems to be my nemesis. To be honest if you could see it you'd probably laugh at such pitiful waves but I'm nowhere near your level of surfing yet so the little stuff is still a prob for me.

Would actually like to go surfing with you at my local break to learn from an old hand and see what way you handle it, then I could learn by imitation. You're all welcome to come over to Ireland for a surfing weekend!!

Sometimes when there's others in the water I find myself shadowing them to see what they do without looking like I'm following them around like a lost puppy.

[Jester]

In reality it's probably only ankle high on top of a crest or double over-ankle at best!

[drowningbitbybit]

Hey Jester, those kind of conditions are often actually the hardest to get through

The stuff that the UK and Ireland gets is just relentless - wave after wave after wave - and the paddle out is much further than most places around the world (due to the high tidal range and hence gradient of the sea bed). And to make it worse, the big wide beaches often don't give a good rip or calm patch to get out.

When I first got to Australia (some 7 years ago now), I was shocked at just how easy it is to get out back. You don't need to paddle nearly as far, the waves tend to come in much better sets and lulls, there'll usually be a freight-train of a rip somewhere, and - the big one - when the waves break, they unload their energy very fast so even a big wall of white water is usually fairly benign to duck under.

So don't think that you've got it easy and everyone else on here could cope really well - if ever I was to move back to the UK (which isn't going to happen), I know I'd really struggle with getting out back on a british beach break!

[oldmansurfer]

I would so love to go surf with any of you but not in cold water LOL If you make it over this way I can surf with you for 30 minutes twice a week I have a variety of ways to go through surf, not sure how that would work in other areas.

[Jester]

Thanks guys! D-triple-B that's good to know!! makes me feel like that time when I went sailing for first time in Ireland and me and the girl I was with at the time didn't really know what we were doing, short story is made a bit of a dog's dinner out of attempting to sail in a harbour which Included me launching the boat into a support craft for a race that was going on and later capsizing (separate incident) but got on with it and after a nerve wracking session finally making it back though it was some struggle, anyway the guy turns around and casually tells us we weren't too bad as this was the fastest flowing water channel in Ireland and loads of people get swept out of the harbour there so didn't feel too crap in the end

So thanks for restoring a bit of confidence

Guys Oz and Hawaii are seriously on my bucket list so careful what you wish for!! Gonna have to practice for a bit more before showcasing the Geoff skills in such surfing Mecca's though!

(Furiously practices in some darkened realm to rocky music) oh wait.. That's Ireland!

[oldmansurfer]

So if I was going through waves that were breaking near me and they were close together with no breaks I would ditch my board and swim under the waves. If you swim forward and down it pulls the tail under and the wave tends to just go over it and you swim under the wave so you don't get pounded and when you come up swim forward to the next wave and dive under and continue till there is a break or you get outside the break. Just don't do this on a busy day when people will be getting battered around by your loose board.

[drowningbitbybit]

The problem with this approach in the UK/Ireland is that you might need to do it for 500 m or more

It's not a case of the spot where the waves break and just getting past it. It can be hundreds and hundreds of metres of whitewater where the waves just keep on coming and coming.

There's a spot in south wales - Llangennith - which is famous for having one of the hardest paddle outs in the world. There are no breaks in the whitewater or rips to help you out back. And out back is a long way when you're paddling against whitewater. I failed to get out back there many a time - paddle duck duck duck paddle duck duck duck paddle... *repeat for 20 mins*... realise you're still only 20 metres from the beach.

In one sense, as long as the waves aren't too messy, it means the waves are great for learning on - absolutely ages to stand up, and then you've got a 500-m ride all the way to the beach. 1 min rides when you're a complete newbie.... flippin' superb!
But then make the waves a bit bigger, maybe add a gentle onshore, and they're just so hard to paddle through.

So on days like that... go the pub, and wait for tomorrow when it's offshore.

[oldmansurfer]

So what you are saying is that you are just riding whitewater to the beach? Other wise the waves breaks along at an angle and if you paddle directly out you have 500 yards through the break but less if you go around, maybe longer over all but easier paddling mostly and a shorter distance through the break. If you are riding whitewater then to me that's the problem but I never had any interest in riding whitewater so I am unfamiliar with this type of surfing. Still swimming you will make progress but if it is just whitewater then you can probably go through it some other way without having to ditch the board like paddle for the whitewater then push the tail down so the nose of the board goes above the incoming whitewater and you go over it. I know this topic has been one that comes up over and over again. I think perhaps I am missing some information unless it is just as I am saying and you are just riding whitewater.

[jaffa1949]

What you are missing OMS is the difference between UK Irish and Channel surf spots , huge tidal range, sometimes the tidal flats extend out to sea several miles, severe continental shelf blues, the tidal flats are just that flat featureless with very little contour and they fail to generate any recognisable rips.
Contrast Hawaii and the west coast of the USA deep water to close inshore, swell can carry its power right to the beach and maintain form.
UK weather conditions generate a lot of nearshore storm waves that have little or no time or distance ( fetch) to organise into decent ground swell with long period.
Then you overlay British ( Irish) weather and just plain ugly surf with no rhyme or reason.
Australia's swell period is 9 seconds on the east coast, when you have a 3 second period and long sands there is only whitewater for the entire width of the beach.
Smashin , what ho!

[drowningbitbybit]

I think perhaps I am missing some information unless it is just as I am saying and you are just riding whitewater.

We're not talking about riding whitewater, we're talking about getting to the clean waves. As Jaffa said - all about the tidal range and the continental shelf.
Sometimes you can have great waves... but they're out behind 500m or more of whitewater which goes along the whole stretch of the beach. It's not a case of going around it - you have to go through it.
The wave out back is just like a wave anywhere else in the world (although a bit fatter and slower moving than most spots) ... then it breaks... but then it just carries on along the flat-bottomed seabed until it reaches the shore. Getting out back to where the 'real' waves are can be a huge challenge.

Conversely, on a day with light offshores and a decent period, the face can just hold up forever and even a beachie can produce unbelievably long rides.

[drowningbitbybit]

Australia's swell period is 9 seconds on the east coast

Although to give the UK surf some credit, in hurricane season (off the SE USA - not in the UK!), I've seen 17 second stuff on the UK west coast. Proper powerful stuff, and you even get about 5 days notice before it gets to you

[Jester]

Yup that all sounds pretty familiar! I'll try and take some pics to describe the conditions for you OMS but I'm really hoping it won't be like that tomorrow.

There have been some truly good days at the same beach where you only have to get through a bit of whitewater to reach out back. I still remember my first experiences of letting go of the safety net of feeling my feet on sand and kicking off the training wheels to head out back. Seemed like such a big deal!! I was super stoked

Sitting out there in the middle of rolling green hills as they pass you by is still pretty magical. I used to surf whitewater but it's all about the greens for me now! That last day I actually had to resort to reform/semi-whitewater as I just couldn't get past after the first two successes and was disappointed but resorted to working on trying to lower my centre of gravity when I pop up and lean at same time as pressure on rear fins to turn. Found that dropping down you can almost get a squeeze of power that helps engage the back for me anyway. At least I think that was it but it's hard to self assess other than just feel everything and try and replicate. Because of where I was the rides were all very short and mostly whitewater though as they just jacked up to their impressive 2 or 3 feet and dumped virtually instantly.

It's onshore in tramore 8 times out of 10 as it's a south facing beach on the south of Ireland. If you wanna check it out it's on the magic seaweed website but the predictions for height and wave period are laughable, they lie like a cheap watch!!

On good days though it's pretty magic, with it being a beach break you often get a classic pyramid or delta shape pointing out to see at roughly regular intervals like the teeth on a saw as viewed from the air looking up and down the strand, the shape I'm talking about is the white roiling water left over after it's broken and run through, I use these visual cues to keep outside the general area of the shoulder as I paddle out for the peak. Of course no two waves are ever the same but it's helpful. Because of that most peaks on good days offer up a right and a left and there's usually a free one to get on! (Most of the time it appears in EXACTLY the spot I've been waiting in and just vacated to chase another)

Anyway will take some snaps this wkend

Happy hunting!

[oldmansurfer]

Thanks guys I think a picture would help but I also think I am starting to get the picture of this in my mind. There is a long shallow inside area where long lines of uninterrupted whitewater passes. But once again in my mind it seems you only have to navigate this once to get out, then when you cut out you will be on the outer portion of this and can get back out just like anywhere else unless you ride the whitewater in. At 500 meters you would need to have a drone picture or taken from an elevated area nearby to get a good view. As curious as I am about this situation I am not going to surf cold water to find out

[Jester]

You're spot on OMS, that about sums it up! You've flagged a very good point though, I should've been cutting out a lot earlier to stay in the normal pattern of waves out back. I'll remember that in future.

I'm such a noob I was riding them for as much as they would give me that I didn't think tactically about giving them up, stayed on too long and ended up riding into the whitewater of the next section which carried me back to the bad stuff. Thanks for the input!

[oldmansurfer]

I am a lazy surfer. I try to avoid extra work if I can. I used to surf this one break long ago which it was a bear to get back out through the shorebreak but I loved to go for the shorebreak section. Many of the other surfers had been surfing for years and myself just a year or two and they could beat me paddling back out. I learned to go all the way to the shore and walk on the beach out to the rocky point which blocked the waves and paddle in the wave free shadow of the rock pile. Even if I walked slowly I could match the speed of the best paddlers and I wouldn't be tired at all. If I walked fast I would beat them out and be ready to catch the next wave while they were catching their breath. I try to avoid any extra work if there are waves to be had without it.

[beachbumuk]

Hey all, loving reading this...Jester, seriously, if you can get out through Brit/Irish waters, it will really work your fitness for when you hit Oz etc.

Im not sure how to add pics so have done my best, the white water is Saunton Sands.

Saunton Sands, North Devon, one of the top notch long board sites...OMS, a picture of our devastation.The white water might only be 0.5-1 foot, but it packs a hell of a hit for something so small and shallow. white water in deep water is MUCH easier to get under as i think it doesn't have the reflection of the bottom. paddling out on beach breaks in Oz was far easier cos it drops off dramatically making a shorter paddle out and rips between sandbanks (all of which i know has been said above)
When the tide drops out (5-7m range I believe) there is an expanse of long long sandy beach....the head land does support some sort of rip but it is incredibly poor and more likely the white water will push you up on the rocks.

however...on the good days, as someone mentioned above.....light off shore breezes on near high tide with a good wave period can produce some of the most beautiful beach break waves you and your log could ever wish for.

Jester - I surf down on the south coast UK at the Witterings mostly, and even when the swell is small, I get exactly the same frustration, trying to push out through those little frothy waves, getting knocked back and back and back. Good training, but in 5c temp waters...its just not fun taking it in the face time after time while wearing 4-5mm of rubber! but theres more sweet at this time of year than any other and I have a cracking surf yesterday in the weather break yesterday

[oldmansurfer]

Thanks for the picture. It seems to me that there are breaks in the wave where you will have an easier time paddling out. Hard to tell size from this picture but if the whitewater were .5 to 1 foot I would be going over it instead of trying to go under it. What is the bottom like and how deep is it?