Carving turns

[oldmansurfer]

I guess lots of surfers want to do carving turns where you lean into the turns as opposed to trim turns where you use your ankles to turn the board. If you watch other surfers doing these turns it may seem so effortless and to them perhaps it is but only because of muscle memory or prior conditioning of their bodies to do this intricate dance with the wave. If they were to stop suddenly in the middle of a turn they would fall down because they are leaning into the turn. When you change the direction the board is going inertia pushes you into the board and allows you to stay on the board. It's like a roller coaster ride with banked turns, it just pushes you down into the seat. So when you turn hard you have to lean or you will fly off the board. This inertia pushes you down into the board and I always think of it like compressing a spring you crouch down and push back (weighting) and lean in the direction you want to go so if you want to go straight back up the wave you lean that way, if you want to go forward you lean that way and adjust your upper body for where you want to go pointing your front hand in that direction. Then as you come out of the turn you release that compression (unweight) and move the lower portion of your body in the direction you want to go and catch up with your upper portion of your body which is already torqued and leaned for the position you will be in next. The next turn will be quite the same compress torque your upper body and lean to where you want to go which is back down the wave. This why the first turn is so important it sets up what you can do next by getting you to the place on the wave that you can do it. It's perhaps a little difficult to understand unweighting and weighting but once you do this will become something you rarely think about.

[hcfkavh]

thanks for this post oldman, i noticed on some of the other threads you posted you mention to first turn with your ankles, by that, do you mean pressing down with your toes or lifting your toes up to put pressure on your heels? like pressing and releasing a gas pedal?

[oldmansurfer]

Yes pressing down for the front side and releasing for the backside. When I surfed a longboard I did a lot of those turns and if you want to carve a longboard then it may help to do an ankle turn first then lean into the turn. They make longboards that are easier to turn now so maybe you don't need to with one of those boards. Now I surf a mid sized board and still sometimes turn with both my ankles and lean into it but maybe simultaneously. I also turn the board on takeoff right after I popup on steep waves with my ankles this sets the rail into the wave and gets it ready to turn as soon as possible. But an ankle turn is the type of turn you usually learn to do first whatever kind of board you are using.

[benjl]

Hey OMS, I think I had a moment today where this post made alsbolute sense! I was having some great fun on some waves today and there was one moment where I think I hit that perfect balance of leaning in allowing the rail to dig and just carve the wave.

I'm still getting the turning sorted on my new board but it has quite hard and edgy rails on the board from the back 1/3. Normally it's a fine balance of getting the board to turn but without it flicking way round like a cut back (it has a tendency to do that!) as a result, sometime when I turn its a bit shakes and flappy on the water if I over-crook the turn etc.

Somehow on this one wave I managed to just lean in and sink the rail and the board just perfectly and effortlessly drove round the wave face. The board didn't even flinch and felt immaculately stable for that moment- something ive never felt with this board yet! I must've just had my weight perfectly balanced and in the right spot.
It was mint!! Loving this new board!

[surfwise77]

If you are leaning in and sinking, bogging rail constantly, digging nose all the time... It is all because of your surfing stance. Make sure that you are not in a Poo Stance (this is the same as a standard squat stance that you will see in a weight room).. The problem with this stance is that it only allows your hips to rotate on one axis... You need to first learn to adopt "the bruce lee" stance.. Look at a professional surfer's hips... They have their feet perpendicular accross the stringer, but their upper body, abdomen, and hips are all open and loose, like you would stand if you were about to square up in a fight, like bruce lee... or like a batting stance in baseball... If you notice, the back knee is dropped, their hips can rotate on many axis' and whenever a good surfer gets low, their knees are bowing IN and NOT out (note how good surfers tuck their butts in because of this and allows them to not get clipped in the barrel)....

This requires extreme flexibility in your hips... but hey, if you want a good carving turn, and a good bottom turn, DO NOT SKIP THE FUNDAMENTALS OF YOUR SURFING STANCE! It seems so basic, yet is so vital in your ability to control your ride. on that note: SURF WITH YOUR CORE!!!!!!! don't get all stiff legged and rigid on me.

Now for the carving turn:

set up your bottom turn by compressing your body into your hips (drop your butt and get low before you do any leaning).. Point your leading shoulder toward the lip/section you are looking to hit... Pointing your shoulder will allow your hips to open up, as you begin to climb the face of the wave, ALLOW THE MOMENTUM OF THE WAVE TO CARRY YOU! As for your weight, you should have weight forward to give you momentum and speed as you project out of your bottom turn..

As you move up the face of the wave, you need to decide which kind of turn you will be doing... Your so called "ankle turns" can only do so much.. in order to do a big carving turn like the big boys, you need to understand the physics of your surfboard.. The back of the board, AKA tail of your board is the pivot point. If you want to redirect your surfboard, you need to make sure that your foot is on the sweet spot between the fins, if your back foot is too far forward, you will turn, but your board more often then not, wont.

I cannot stress it enough.. DITCH THE POO STANCE.. learn about surfing and how everything useful in surfing is counter intuitive to what your body wants to do

Open your shoulders, lead with your front arm, if you want to do a cutback, your lead arm needs to lead the way and point behind you... If you want to do a carve in a steep section, you need to open up your front arm behind you, torque your abs and hips, and allow the momentum of the wave bring the board around... Don't over do it. Don't force it.

Now dont be fooled by some misguided people who tell you turn your shoulders and then your hips.. That is simply wrong and I will tell you why... The best power surfers, carvers, rail surfers, whatever you want to call them, always set their rail first (with their ankles and then use their shoulders to help torque their hips through.. The hips are actually moving a little bit before your shoulders... if you get good at this, you will be a carving powerhouse and throw buckets of spray. If you move your shoulders first, you lose your power... Set your rail with your ankles and hips... and then lead your shoulders through to help lean and bring your hips up into the wave.

Sorry if I went on a tangent, I love surfing and coaching surfing.. Sometimes it's easier to show then it is to type, so i tried to be as descriptive as possible without confusing people... But if I did confuse you.. My b

Mucho Aloha

[waikikikichan]

Surfwise77 I respect you as a surf instructor and great surfer. On a forum, there are many different view points and techniques that a person has learned or been taught. You may disagree with what someones advises but by saying " Now dont be fooled by some misguided people who tell you turn your shoulders and then your hips...That is simply wrong" you are disrespecting some of us. I firmly believe in the "top to bottom - eyes to feet approach". So you are saying I am misleading people and those who take my advice are fools. Maybe you could reword you comment as " others may not teach such and such, but for me I teach such and such way. And as you ended your post with "Mucho Aloha", may I please ask if you could use some "Aloha" when writing you posts.

For those "fools" that have listen to my advice, let me try to explain/defend my shoulder before hip turning. Try stand with you left shoulder touching a wall. Both hand down at your sides feet pointing straight. Keep your eyes straight ahead also. Now bring your right arm to shoulder level, extend fully and touch the wall with your right palm. Twist your toes/ankles and then hips as far clockwise as possible without letting go of the wall with your right hand. ( you can try looking to right too ). How far could you turn.

Now return back to the starting position. This time reach back with your right hand and touch the wall behind you with your right palm. Now look to the right and follow that with your hips and feet ( not like the robot dance style ) smoothly. How far more could you turn ? How much more easier was it to do ? The more your hips can turn freely the more the board can turn freely.

If the arms shoulders block the neck and eyes from movement, the body has a harder time to follow. If you open up the upper body before the lower body, its like letting go the propeller on a rubber band plane.

Lastly for those who don't get the surfing concept, let me explain it with golf. Try imagine holding a golf club on the up swing. Don't move anything but your hands arms and shoulder keep you hips waist totally still. Now swing downwards. Then only AFTER your swing, let your hip move. Fills funny yeah ? Golfs swing's power is opposite of surfing's power. Surfers swing the board with their feet and initiate the downward shift with the arms first.

But that is my concept and teaching technique. It makes sense to me. But try many ways and see which helps you surf best.

[oldmansurfer]

so many different ways to do something or maybe different ways to describe the same thing. I would say this that instead of crouching before the turn crouch into the turn so that you can use the weight of dropping your center of gravity down to further push the board and add power to the turn unless you are on a big wave then crouch before because you don't need to add power. I generally end up crouching into the turn either way because I am using my legs to maintain contact with the board as I drop on a big wave so often fully extended when I reach the bottom then crouch again. I just watched the Reef Hawaiian Pro and I swear most of the surfers are doing what I said, torque your upper body and use it to turn your hips and as the hips catch up they torque the shoulders again for the next turn. If you haven't got your stance down then none of this matters as you won't be doing any of this, also your popup, also your paddling. It impossible to do advanced stuff when you haven't got basics down. Look at someone in a cutback and tell me they haven't turned their shoulders first.