Getting my back foot back?

[cleicht]

Hey guys,

i'd consider myself a beginner. decent paddler, catching waves, pop up is relatively consistent, etc. i'm not turning well, though. i've noticed that my back foot isn't all the way back over my fins. and i hear that that's one of the keys to turning.

any tips to consistently finding the back of the board with my foot upon pop up? i was considering a stomp pad to 'mark' the spot, but i'd prefer not to rely on that and figure it out naturally, if possible.

i'm surfing beach break, so by the time i consciously think to move my foot back it's the last few seconds of my ride. i ride a few different boards, but mainly a 7'6 thruster, full volume concept. i also have a couple single fins though.

thanks for any advice!

[oldmansurfer]

The method I have used to correct my stance is to make a cardboard cutout of the board then practice poppin up on that with correct foot placement. That said though you may not need to adjust your foot position. It depends on the type of board and the type of turns you want to do (and the waves). If your back foot is in the general area of your fins you can probably learn to turn well enough. The question I would ask is does the moving of your foot back when you remember it make a difference in your ability to turn?

[cleicht]

thanks for the reply. that's an interesting idea. i'll try it.

i surf mostly beach break in southern california on a board called a stoker v-machine shaped by bruce fowler. i love it. it's 7'6 x 22.75 x 3.25. riding it as a thruster right now.

as far as the type of turns i'm into - hah, i'd take any at this point - but i'm attracted to those long, smooth arcy cutbacks and big bottom turns and top turns, etc. more old school, i guess. nothing too thrashy, young shortboarder-type stuff. right now, i'd settle for being able to pump up and down the face of the wave. i'm sort of just picking a line now.

the few times i have been able to move my foot back over the fins at the end of a wave, i've noticed a massive difference. i used to skateboard a little when i was younger, and i liken it to leaning to make subtle turns versus pushing down on the tail and directing the nose of the skateboard with my front foot to make more aggressive, sharper turns. seems like it'd be the same logic for surfing, but i haven't been able to put it together. mainly, i'm guessing because i haven't been able to get that foot back like i used to on a skateboard.

thanks again

[oldmansurfer]

I relearned to surf after not surfing for more than 10 years and I worked on my bottom turns first. The bottom turn gives you speed and power what you need for your next turn. It really sets up what you do on the rest of the wave so it is really important to get down first. It took me nearly three years surfing for 30 minutes a week to get my frontside bottom turn down well enough. Not sure why it took me so long but it is important.

[cleicht]

i will work on it. thanks!

[dtc]

Keep in mind the following

- you dont necessarilly have to have your foot over the fins to do a long arc turn, but you do need to have your weight over your back foot to some extent

- just leaning to turn, like you might do on a skateboard, only works for subtle turns or if you have a lot of speed. for most beach waves after the first bottom turn, its not going to work. You need not only weighting but strong upper body movement - twisting your whole upper body toward where you want to go (look then twist).

You cant just lean or do subtle things, you have to make an effort to turn, esp on a longer board. Early on someone told me the best way (even if it feels weird) is to actually point with your index finger where you want to go with a loose upper body, so your shoulder follows your hand and your lower body then 'untwists'

- foot over the fins works for much sharper moves, like shortboard 180 cutbacks and so forth. You can do the same on a longer board, but you have to actually move your feet back. Walking back and forth on a longboard (9ft) is a given when you want to do sharper turns; on a 7ft6 you probably have to do the same but as a much more subtle movement. So it move back, turn, move forward. How you know where to move your back foot to is a bit of a lesson to learn; but you can figure out where you foot is when you pop up and then figure out how far it needs to move back - on a 7ft6 it may only be 6 inches or so. Then you just move that distance and train your body how far that is. Trial and error really - which can be hard if you are riding short waves, but you can do some of the trial on the white water as you have already noticed.

Surfing is a matter of weighting and unweighting, but on a longer board actual movement back and forth is necessary for the sharper turns or if you dont have much speed.

You should be able to do pumping turns (weaving up and down the waves) without moving your feet, but you will still need to do the weighting thing and the upper body thing.

This well described at this link, which is a blog from waikikichan who also posts here - see both the weighting issue and the upper body issue, clearly explained through some great photos.

http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?day=20140514

Also check out videos of good longboarders - Alex Knost for example, and just watch his technique and how his weight moves and his feet move and his upper body moves.

Good luck -

[oldmansurfer]

I surf an 8 foot board and judging from the dents in the deck my back foot is well in front of the fins. With my back foot it that position I can do large carving turns and tail pushing fin sliding turns without moving my back foot ( but I do weigh 200 pounds). I haven't felt a need to alter my popup so far on this board. When I try to use a longer board then I need to step back or I just move back on the board when I am paddling so I popup in the right place. Just like with skateboarding you can do ankle turns or trimming turns. I once surfed an old heavy long board and to turn it you always had to start with and ankle turn. If you wanted to do a big turn you had to turn with your ankles then once the board started to turn you lean into it. On my current board I find it often helps to do both lean and use ankles at the same time. If you remember skateboarding you could move around tacking back and forth to generate speed or forward motion? With surfing this is even more important and more complex because besides tacking which we call pumping where you quickly turn up and back down the wave to generate speed, you have to alter your center of gravity to get the maximum effect, throwing your weight up and back down the wave. The bottom turn is important especially in shorebreak because it will make or break your ride. You want to get a good carving bottom turn before you try for a carving upper wave turn. During the bottom turn you will compress down into the board which I think of something like a spring so that coming out of the turn you release the compression and unweight in the direction you want to go then compress back down as you get to that point and repeat. Now I haven't ever done ramps or anything other than basically flat surfaces other than going downhill on a skateboard but I imagine it would be similar to a top and bottom turn in a swimming pool type of setting.

[waikikikichan]

" i've noticed that my back foot isn't all the way back over my fins." - Did you know that by looking down ?

"and i hear that that's one of the keys to turning." - Yes, on the turn but NOT on the Pop Up.

"any tips to consistently finding the back of the board with my foot upon pop up?" - Again your foot doesn't need to be back there. On the bottom turn yes.

"i was considering a stomp pad to 'mark' the spot, but i'd prefer not to rely on that and figure it out naturally, if possible." - All my boards have tail pads - Long Short Fish Classic and even my sponge boards. They help a lot, and you don't need to look down. Another benefit is it creates a step to stand on when you do hard kickouts. ( good during beach breaks closeouts )

I think you did mentioned you ride a skateboard. When a skateboarder on a half pipe drops in, does he put his weight on the tail ? I like watching those videos of 1st timers looping out or doing the splits , Ouch ! But when you do a Ollie, do you put your weight in the same place as when you drop in ?

[cleicht]

thanks guys. it's all getting clearer. of course, that's much easier to say on dry land. i'll hop in the water and try it out.

@dtc, al knost is one my favorites. i watch a lot of his vids and he moves around a crazy amount. i'll pay special attention to vids of him riding mid lengths now. great idea.

@oldmansurfer, the tick tacking on a skateboard is exactly what i was picturing in my head. thanks. so i'd use a similar technique or feel to pump up and down the face of the wave and generate speed. awesome!

@waikikikichan, '" i've noticed that my back foot isn't all the way back over my fins." - Did you know that by looking down ?'
yup, i have a second to look down in the whitewater near the end of my ride. things are too hairy when i pop up and just after.

also, i'm definitely not riding any pipes on my skateboard. mostly, just to grab some tacos! but your metaphor is pretty clear. makes good sense. gotta think about my weight distribution. thank you.

awesome posts guys. thank you.

[waikikikichan]

I asked you - "Did you know that by looking down ?"
You responded "yup, i have a second to look down in the whitewater near the end of my ride. things are too hairy when i pop up and just after."

There's a hundred ( maybe thousands )micro movements that happen between pop up and kick out. Less so on a short board. but on Mid lengths your foot should move about. Looking down at the end won't matter. And you should not look down anyways. If you really need to know where your foot is, best if you can have a friend photo or video you. But really it doesn't matter, as your skills increase your foot will find its way. If your thinking about where your foot is, than your not surfing naturally. You'll have Paralysis by Analysis. Think about it like tying a shoelace. Before you stressed out as a kid learning. Now you do it without thinking.

[surf patrol]

"al knost is one my favorites. i watch a lot of his vids and he moves around a crazy amount. i'll pay special attention to vids of him riding mid lengths now. great idea."

I hate Alex Knost's herky jerky flailing arm arch back for show style. I really liked before when Alex was being tutored by Wingnut. He uses a lot of the Kick stall turns. Stall, pick up the nose, flick it , put it down. If you want that style , then tic -tacking will suit it.

But please look at this video of two great longboarders ( they rip on Mids too ) joel tudor and joe aaron

That is the full rail , drop style deep turns that I appreciate

[SurferHank]

Thank you dtc and waikikikichan for the well written response, details and also spot-on pics emphasizing key points on long board turns. Importance of weighting and strong upper body movement in your posts have done more to improve my turns than anything else over the past 2 years I have been surfing!