Surfing quest - help the struggling fellow.. :)

[parito]

Hello everyone,

Another beginner here moaning about impossible quest of surfing )

I am 83kg (182 lbs) and 186cm tall (6.1 foot), 30 yo. I used to be very active(long distance triathlons) but had a 3 year break and office work in UK which made me loose all the fitness I ever had That's why I moved out of there..

After surfing for ~2 weeks in whitewater, I have upgraded from 9 foot softboard to a 7.6 foot hardboard - I wanted to have my own rather than keep renting. Of course the difference was massive and it was like starting from day one. I couldn't even stay stable while paddling... the difference in float, length/width looked massive to me.. now it's getting slowly better..

I am trying to be in the water almost every day (I live on the beach), but of course conditions are not always perfect. So my current "surfing level" is ~3-4 weeks in the water.. That's the reason I came here for help - I know "practice practice practice" mantra but I just believe that small advice goes long way .. and I had enough playtime to justify some questions..

My current problems so far in the whitewater (I try to stick to white stuff so far..)

1. Separation from the board
Sometimes I get separated from the board, and the board get's launched ahead of me. My possible guesses.. a) more wax? b) too slow compared to wave speed? c) unconsciously lift my legs and water get's in between myself and the board? d) too close to breaking waves, and the whitewater is still very violent?

2. Sloppy pop-up and fall
At home, on the floor, or on the sand, my pop-up looks perfect to me.. feet landing in the correct position, timing etc... but something changes in water. Is it instability, lack of balance/coordination.. 7 times out of 10 semi-successful pop-ups my feet land close together and to far behind on the board, which means I have to adjust my footing straight away or fall. To adjust it, I have to look down the board, which causes another reason to fall down..
When you pop-up, do you shift the board backwards a bit, to reposition it better, or is it just a matter of throwing your front leg more forward.. ?

Or maybe I'm just too tired from daily surf and exercising at home, and my body wants rest..


I think surfing seems so challenging to me because I never was flexible or had good balance..

Did those balance boards made any difference for any of you? I am considering them, but I don't want to start buying "gadgets" where other solutions could be applied.. I had enough of hobbies where you would keep buying stuff.. And this is what I like so much about surfing. Board, wetsuit and me. simple.

[polyphonic]

Hello,
This is going to sound like odd advice, but you seem to be a little anxious at the moment! A couple of unproductive sessions in a row can put one in a rut. Remember, surfing is just about having fun. Borrow a boogie board and go out beyond the white-water and surf with the big boys a bit. Not only will you get some good waves, but it will help you understand the mechanics of wave catching a little better. Hey, some people even prefer boogie-boarding. Getting barreled on those things is sooooo easy..

Now to your technical question. You say your feet land together and too close to the tail. My guess is, while trying to pop up, you are thinking of pushing your upper body up and over your legs. During a pop-up,your legs should be swinging underneath your body (the thrust from your forearms creates the space for your legs to swing through). Think of that swinging when trying at home. Or, get that soloshot camera which films you from the beach! Good luck.

[gd6]

If you've never had very good balance, then a 7'6" board will probably be a challenge to learn on. It can be done, but if you are anxious to get up and ride some waves, a 9-10' longboard would be much more suitable. You sound anxious and I have read many stories about people taking a long time to get proficient, even on funboards.

If you set on learning on the board you have (which I totally would understand), then pay close attention to your positioning on the board. Make sure you now exactly where you need to be on the board for it to be balanced (the boards nose should stick out 1 inch or so out of the water when you are paddling or just laying on your board. Pay close attention to where your hands are on the rails when popping up if your having issues, and see if adjusting it helps.

If your landing too far back on the board, it might be subconscious, because you don't want to pearl and wipe out. Being too far back on the board is an easy way to miss a wave, being too far forward is an easy way to nosedive and wipe out.

[dtc]

I agree with polyphonic as to one possibility - bringing your body back to over your feet often causes your feet to be too close together plus you are at the back of your board plus your weight is heading backwards and up (and the board is heading down and forward because of the wave). So the end result is you are heading in a different direction to your board and you disappear backwards and the board shoots forwards.

One way to practice is to mark out your board on the floor (using chalk or a ribbon or something) and see if you can figure out where the best spot to end up is (from memory from when you are surfing). Mark where your feet should land. Lie on the board where you would be when paddling and pop up. And see how close you get.

Secondly, a common problem with beginners is that they dont commit to the pop up. Its not an action you are used to, so you try to do it a bit more slowly to keep in control. However, the pop up cannot be done slowly or you will fail. I often say its like riding a bike - going slower is harder than going fast. So perhaps on land you are fine, but in the water you get a bit anxious or lose confidence and try to slow things down. Which is natural but the complete opposite to what you need to do. For example, if your push up is not strong enough, your feet - particularly the front foot - will not have space to come through and will land 'early' (ie too close together and too far back). Explode up, commit. Go out one day and just say 'every pop up will be as hard and as fast and I can' - and see what happens.

gd6 also makes a great point. I - and others - find that a good way to be in the right place on the board is to get to the right position in flat water (as described by gd6) and then draw a line across the board at eye or nose level (fingernail in wax is usually good enough). Then everytime you lay on the board, you can instantly tell if you are in the right position. Yes, sometimes you need to move an inch back or forward, but as a general starting point its great.

In terms of waxing, dont be shy. Wax the whole board if it makes you feel less stressed. Probably the top 2 foot of the board dont need to be waxed, but wax the rest including toward the rails (edges) since your hands might rest there during pop up.

As a side point, if you are 'too slow' in relation to the wave and on unbroken waves, then you generally nose dive rather than fall backwards (another odd surfing thing). But in white water is possible the water is just knocking you off your feet?

oh, one final tip - makes sure your hands at pop up are below your shoulder level. If you are a natural (left foot forward), my usual advice is have the left hand around mid rib level and the right hand at bottom rib level (so the hands are not quite even). This gives you are good push and also the uneven hand position gives a slight natural twist to your body, which assists. Reverse for goofys.

Balance boards are ok, but google 'balancing exercises' and you can find things that dont need gadgets. Even standing on one foot waving your arms around is useful. Or closing your eyes and balancing on one foot (harder than you think). Single leg romanian deadlifts. Walking lunges. Increased ankle mobility. There are plenty of things you can do.

[oldmansurfer]

For the separation from the board.....Hmm hard to tell why but practicing balancing is a good idea. Also maybe lowering your center of balance by squatting a little lower (maybe need to build leg strength?) If you are falling off backward then try to lean forward. I know that maybe you are afraid of taking the drop so lean back that may cause your board to go forward.

2 The pop up....yeah I have problems popping up at times too due to the wave smacking me or the board around. I often do a two stage pop up I paddle to catch the wave and when I think I have caught it I prop myself up with my arms straight out arching my back still laying on the board. Once I feel myself going down the wave I pop up or if the wave is hitting me I wait till it quits then pop up. Once in a while I go down the face of the wave still lying down and then stand at the bottom of the wave.

Balance board might help, I keep thinking I will get one but never do, back when I was younger I used a balance board and thought it was fun just to play around on. I think gaining balance skills are important and not being tired is important. So that means you maybe need to rest the day before you surf and work harder on the other days. It's very important for safety to not be tired when you surf. I think there are two things that go into that one is muscle strength related tiredness and the other is aerobic/anaerobic conditioning. You need both. It's all a process and it all takes time and it all depends on how out of shape you are right now as to what exactly you do.

[oldmansurfer]

My current balancing exercises are standing I raise one foot forward and then holding it there I raise the other one.....just kidding so I raise one foot forward and bring it back down then raise it sideways then back down then bring my knee up to my chest then back down then raise it backward then back down. I try to not put my foot down on the floor but most of the time I need to stop and regain balance after one or more set of movements. I try to repeat those movements ten times using the same leg then repeat the other leg. It's simple requires no money but may be difficult for some. Starting off you may want to have something nearby to grab ahold of so that can quickly regain balance. Maybe you can work on aerobic conditioning by doing some exercise that makes you winded without making your muscles tired and push that a little so that you stay slightly out of breath still comfortable but lungs working hard. Then on other days do weights/squats/lunges to build strength and do balancing at least a couple days a week.

[dtc]

If you are falling off backward then try to lean forward. I know that maybe you are afraid of taking the drop so lean back that may cause your board to go forward.

The tip that always worked for me on this was to keep in your mind that, after you pop up, you are going surf down the hill (the wave) just like you might skateboard down a hill or whatever.

The natural surfing mindset seems to be that because the wave is pushing you, you have to lean against the wave or resist the wave. But no one ever skates/rides down a hill and thinks 'I need to resist the hill'. No, you lean down the slope and go for it.

Its just a mental thing but it seems to work. Run through it in your mind - pop up and then surf down the hill.

Oddly, while I very much agree balancing exercises are useful, somehow after you figure out the pop up and get more confident, you stop falling over as much...ie it may not be balance per se, its a combination of a lot of small things putting you in the wrong position and the wrong weighting and the wrong spot. You could be a tightrope walker and still fall. On a longer board - even 7ft6 - if you get into the right spot with the right weighting, its almost impossible to fall off. The board sucks into the wave and holds you there on a very stable platform (think about how much 'sucking' power is required to allow someone to noseride, for example)

So hopefully the 15 different tips we have given you assist!

[parito]

Hola!

Thank you everyone for your tips - I really believe some of them do apply to me.. especially the "downhill" advice..

What I meant by "separation from the board" was when I am in whitewater. Me facing the shore, paddling, seeing whitewater coming towards me, and then -- "wooosh"... and the board flying in front of me, and me dragging behind - could be simply waxing issue or how I was lying on the board.

so my plan then is...

Set up my board at home at a downward angle (maybe some pillows towards the end), so it would feel like it's sliding down the wave and try practicing pop-ups then.

My hands might need a break.. (I know - break from surfing????) - I am highly motivated person and because of everyday surfing + pushups/pullups at home, + pop-up practice daily my hands are just too tired and I lack the explosive power which is needed for a popup. Usually it's also after a good stretch of paddling if I am surfing at high tide..

p.s. a bit offtopic question from a noob - let's say I am out there catching green waves (scary), see the "monster" coming, turn towards the shore, start paddling as fast as I can, look behind my shoulder and see that the wave is already breaking right behind/on top of me..

What would be the best evasive maneuver at this stage? chicken dive? I know if I do try to just surf that stuff I usually just wipe out badly.

Really thankful for so much friendly advice and hope to pay back in the future with advice to others...

[jaffa1949]

Parito, you certainly won't need any gadgets to aid your progress, things needed for surfing are simple.

Now the white water situation, when you get whooshed off your board, are you padding?
Do you hang on at the moment of impact? or is that the moment you try to pop up?
How much do you wax your board? and where?

Separately on pop ups ( this subject get discussed a lot) have a read around and above in the advice already given.
Can you pop up at home ? If so then your hands are not too tired.
Your positioning on the board may be a factor in everything.
When you lie on the board and paddle the nose should be about 1" out of the water slightly more if the nose has an extreme rocker.
Maybe a picture of your board would help, as you are trying to learn on a board that is not entirely helpful to the early stages of surfing.
7'6" is at the bottom of the easy learning size for you bigger would be better.

My major tip; get in the water on a boogie board learn the timing of the surf and get some confidence.
Since you can swim body surf a bit .
Don't try for major high level fitness ala triathlon ( although that will help) rather work on getting the balance and coordination needed.

Finally learn to enjoy wipeouts we all receive them in so many different ways, don't over think the whole surfing thing just do it

[dtc]

a bit offtopic question from a noob - let's say I am out there catching green waves (scary), see the "monster" coming, turn towards the shore, start paddling as fast as I can, look behind my shoulder and see that the wave is already breaking right behind/on top of me..

You are going the wrong way. When you see the monster coming, paddle out (away from shore) as fast as you can and try and get to the wave before it breaks and just paddle over the top (unbroken). Bigger waves (generally) break further out, and you need to be prepared to paddle to the horizon and hope you get there in time. Which is why you shouldnt get too distracted by the hottie on the beach and make sure you are at least keeping an eye on the waves at all times.

Also called 'clean up sets'...for when you dont get there in time.

It can be a bit scary (or a lot) paddling full steam toward a huge wave and just hoping you get there because if you almost but just dont then you may get the lip on the top of your head (which is not good). You will learn timing and waves etc over time. Sometimes you can punch through and sometimes you just need to dive (so long as there is no one else around). And sometimes you just wear it.

Dont worry about the pillows etc and dont do pop ups on your board on land (you just damage your board). Its not the angle of the board that is an issue, it actually makes it easier when you are in the water to pop up on an angle board (because its a little bit further below you so more room for your legs). If you can do it on land on the flat on your imaginary chalk board, then you should be able to do it on water.

As to the knocking off the board thing, remember that water is very heavy. Being hit by a big (or not so big) wall of whitewater means being hit by a lot of weight travelling quite fast - think about how much effort it is to just stand up (no board) when the water hits you. On white water - which is what you should be learning on - get on your board well before the water hits, paddle hard toward shore then, as Jaffa says, at the point of impact grab the rails (edges) for a second until the initial impact is over, then pop up.

[parito]

Hello everyone and sorry for the uber-post..

jaffa1949:

Now the white water situation, when you get whooshed off your board, are you padding?

Yes, I do, the closer the wave, the faster, observing the wave behind my shoulder

Do you hang on at the moment of impact? or is that the moment you try to pop up?

No, I don’t – usually my arms are somewhere in the paddling process when the whitewater hits from behind. Most of the time it’s not a problem and I can feel the wave take me, but if the whitewater is violent and strong (wave just broke) the board gets launched from bellow me.. The reason I am NOT holding onto the rails is I was taught to never ever take the rails when popping up but place my palms on top of the board… I suppose this could be the reason, and I should: paddle, paddle harder, grab the rails, whitewater hits, place palms on top of the board, pop-up?

How much do you wax your board? and where?

whole board except for the nose– dunno if you can see it in the picture well.. However no I will put on more wax and some on the rails as well..

Can you pop up at home ? If so then your hands are not too tired.

Yes, I think I can pop up at home just fine (not even using toes to help me). However the tiredness in my arms could be the problem after I am paddling a lot (for example I am at the beach at high tide so I have to actually float and paddle on the board while catching whitewater)

Maybe a picture of your board would help, as you are trying to learn on a board that is not entirely helpful to the early stages of surfing.

My major tip; get in the water on a boogie board learn the timing of the surf

I don’t think the timing is the problem I have currently, but I will definitely give it a go

dtc:

You are going the wrong way.

The reason I am going the wrong way initially is I see the wave coming and I want to catch it and ride it – NOT to avoid it My question is, what do you do when you think you are going to catch the wave but the wave breaks earlier than anticipated and right on top of you – what’s the best evasive maneuver then

Hope this clarifies the picture a bit..

[jaffa1949]

OK Parito, some more answers for you...... surfing is not naturally easy. You are a raw beginner so be kind to yourself in your assessment.
Hang on at the moment of white water impact.
Paddle and match the speed of the white water get pushed and stabilise in the white water then place hands on top of the board do your pop up routine ( popups need to occur when with some speed).

Learn to read the waves so you are in a better position to catch the white water.
You don't appear to have enough wax on the board where you place your feet a grip pad might help you get positioning.
Wax every surf or rough up the wax with a wax comb.

The board is OK you would be helped by a bigger board but that will do for now!
Finally PERSIST

[oldmansurfer]

Yeah the falling off while paddling thing, if it's while you are getting pounded by a wave it happens you have to learn what you can handle and what's too big (too much force). I sometimes hang on to the board and let it catch me and sometimes it will carry me on forward and I am riding the wave but laying down. In those cases I wait till the wave isn't smacking me all over the place and stand up. That might be a situation where I do a partial pop up, just raise up my self by doing a push up on the board only to stay more balanced I arch my back and stay in contact with the board as much as possible but only after establishing that I am moving forward along with the wave, till then I am hanging on for dear life.

[IB_Surfer]

After reading the original post (sorry, no patience to read the rest) I can honestly tell you that all you have are growing pains. You will get better.

Don't compare yourself to surfers that have been surfing for years, you haven't.

Have fun falling down, getting the wobbles, having your foot in the wrong place, duckdiving like crap, smile at your imperfection, and laugh loudly when it all fall together perfectly and you ride that wave that gives you that perfect adrenaline rush.

[dtc]

You are going the wrong way.

The reason I am going the wrong way initially is I see the wave coming and I want to catch it and ride it – NOT to avoid it My question is, what do you do when you think you are going to catch the wave but the wave breaks earlier than anticipated and right on top of you – what’s the best evasive maneuver then ..

Ah, well - ok, I'm assuming here you are trying to catch unbroken waves

1. as others have said, if you are a bit ahead of the wave but not too much, arch your back which will slow down the board and hopefully the wave will catch up and you will be in the right spot. After a while you pick up when/how to do this almost automatically (but it does take a while). Inevitably you wont be in the 'perfect' spot on most waves

2. if you are quite a bit ahead of the wave but still 'on' the wave, then just hold on and dont try to stand up. you then just bounce down the wave. If you slide back on your board, to raise the nose up, it will help you from nose diving (have a look at the Australian iron men catching waves at the end of the paddle board leg - I'm sure there will be some ironman footage on youtube somewhere). Alternatively, you can try to pull out of the wave by backpaddling and sliding right down the board to stop forward progress. But if you get this wrong you will disappear over the falls. So make an early decision

3, if you are so far ahead of the wave that its going to break on top of you - well, I dont know. I've never done that; but its clearly an inability to pick what the wave is doing so I agree with Jaffa that you may benefit a lot by getting out there with a bodyboard for a few weeks and learning how to read the waves and then hopping back on your board. Not that this will fix up everything - I bodyboarded for 30 years before trying to surf and it doesnt mean I catch every wave or dont get caught out now and then

But as IB Surfer said, you are making mistakes that everyone makes and you will figure out cause and solutions soon enough.