Fin Position for Stability

[Totally Tuna]

My daughter is 12 and surfed first two years on an 8'2" foamie. For Christmas I bought her a new 8' custom board. We sat down with the shaper and I believe the board is awesome, but it is much more tippy than most other boards we've either rented or borrowed for her to surf on. The decision to go custom was for the artwork and cost wasn't that much different. The center fin is 9.5" long and 7"deep below the bottom surface of the board. It is very narrow from the leading edge to the trailing edge. My thought is to get a larger thicker profile from leading edge to trailing edge fin and 9" deep. Would this help? Also, where in the fin box should the fin sit. I believe from what I've read that the furthest back would be most stable while she is learning.

Do the side bites help or hurt for stability? Thanks for your help.

[still-learning]

Hi Totally Tuna, from my understanding, the further the fin is placed back the more stable it is....but having said that people like Jaffa or themathsteacher on this forum will probably be better suited to give you some guidance. You can also search around the site for fin related questions to gather more information - I am sure there have been similar threads posted and answered to.

[jaffa1949]

Totally Tuna, here is a thread i wrote on fins
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16523

You could use that, the new board will be skittish and feel unstable but 12 year old daughters are quick to adapt.
Foamies are barges design to make the first experience easy.
Some quick options move the fin back , that makes the bard harder to turn. Install a fin with a longer base a thought you have already had!
don't fuss too much about 1 + 2 set ups a single is Ok.
Have fun, surfing is not an easy to do sport, but is probably the most rewarding

[Totally Tuna]

Thanks Jaffa, That is kinda what I've been thinking. We have not gone through the steps outlined here very well in trying to get up to speed. Almost all of her whitewater riding has been on the foamie. I guess we should start at square one with the new board. She is wanting to go back to the foamie for awhile. Are you suggesting to not go back to that?

We've spent one day riding whitewater on her new board, but usually we are out on smaller days(2ft) trying to surf. We live on Texas gulf coast so we don't get to ride on good waves often, and if it gets over waist high we are stuck on the inside, unless we have a longer period swell, which only happens around storms here. 6 second intervals are the norm here. We will be spending the next several trips riding the whitewater and getting our feet under us a little better. This site has been very helpful, but since I've been reading up on the info here it has been flat. Waves are supposed to develop this weekend.

I'm trying to learn with her, but I spend most of the time trying to help her out. My board is nice and stable, custom also, but different shaper. It's modeled after the Stewart Hydro-Hull.
Thanks again!

[jaffa1949]

Just let the learning be fun, if going back to the foamy helps well that's OK, make small steps, don't get caught up in pushing for results, let your experiences be as organic and as natural as possible.
parental pushing is a sure way to fail and if your daughter chooses not to surf??? nothing wrong with that either!

[dtc]

TT, just wanted to add - putting my 'technical hat' on - if your daughter is having problems popping up on an 8ft board, there is probably something 'wrong' with her pop up. So by all means let her go back to the foamie or move the centre fin back, but keep an eye on what she is doing. Potentially the stability of the foam board is allowing her to get away with a bad habit that wont transfer to the custom board.

I'm totally with Jaffa, the important thing is that she is having fun on whatever board she has fun on. But if a few changes her or there with the pop up (or stance immediately after pop up) cures the frustration, then its worthwhile making some mild suggestions.

You will find that, particularly at slow speed eg white water, the foam board is much more stable because of its design (eg very flat bottom, fat rails and other board shaper lingo stuff that I can't really understand). The custom board will obviously outperform the foam board and is probably actually just as or even more stable when there is some speed (eg going down an unbroken wave), but at lower speeds will be less stable.

[Totally Tuna]

Jaffa, dtc,

Thanks for the advice. We were able to get out last Friday morning in some really nice gentle thigh high rollers. We each caught about 15-20 waves, which was a first for me. I'm newer to this than my daughter. The advice I've gathered since finding this site from both you that you have shared with others made all the difference for me. Thanks a lot. My daughter only took the foamie out and she gets up better than I, but we both still need to stay on the easier stuff till we get our pop ups down. She's getting close, but I still end up going to my knees first. She said after we were about half way through with our session that she wished she would have brought her fiberglass board. We've been doing 50 pop ups every other day at home, but on the water bad habits take over for me at least. It may be that we need to practice an actually pop up rather than a sprinter start. It seemed like an easier way to get started to me so that is what we've been trying. Other methods which use leverage from your legs off of the board make sense as well, but so far we've been moving our back foot forward about a foot and then bringing the front foot to our hands.

[dtc]

If you search on this forum there are a lot of threads on the pop up!

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21071
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21878

I linked those cos I posted in them...but there are plenty of others including a couple of feature articles

By sprinter start do you mean standing next to the board and then jumping on it as the wave comes close? I can understand how this makes things easier - remember doing it myself - but it doesnt translate into actual surfing for a number of reasons.

Or do you mean the 'aussie sprinter' version of popping up - which is actually not terrible for a longboard, doesnt work all the time for steep waves but for mushy waves it should be fine.

If you are bringing your back foot foward and then your front foot to your hands, if you are still leaning on your hands you will tip. You need to bring your front foot forward and stand (into a crouch) virtually simultaneously, so there will be a very quick weight transfer to the back foot as you do this and then you balance. In any event, dont think about that, just think about ensuring you are NOT weighted on your hands after your back foot moves forward. So its 'hand push, back foot forward, hands coming off the board as your front foot comes through'. Dont think that standing up more slowly makes it easier, it actually makes it much harder to impossible. Its a quick movement.

Anyway, you might not be doing any of the above!

[Totally Tuna]

Yes, I was talking about the Aussie sprinter method. I saw it on a different video than the one you posted links to, but from the black and white video my problem is I do the knee method, and I cannot seem to stop. No matter how hard I think about my first move being the right move, as soon as the wave catches me I find myself on both knees. I did learn how to use the buoyancy of the board to help kick start my momentum forward. We were in shallow water and I'd jump on the board and it would shoot forward to help catch the wave. That was awesome. I've had a friend or two tell me about how to do this, but until you do it, it's hard to explain. I caught a few waves without even paddling. These were waves that I thought were too small for me to catch in my current physical condition and experience. I'm 49 yo, 6'2" and 250 lbs. and I just had shoulder surgery in early April so I'm a little handicapped, but pleased with the progress I had last week.

I'm thinking we just need to commit to everyday doing popups at home. Also, we are going to stay on the easier waves till we get this down a little more. I'm going to try a regular pop up as my technique as I don't want to have to unlearn something. Thanks again, y'alls help has been tremendous.

[dtc]

ok, last words of wisdom....

1. muscle memory. If you can do it right often enough, you will do it right when it counts.

2. trust and commit. You know how to do it right, so do it and trust that it will work. Doing it wrong when you know its wrong is 'fear' - not believing it will work. Staying on your knees seems easier because so much in surfing is counter intuitive (you want me to paddle downhill and then jump up on the board???). Knees seem safer, more stable. And they are, for everything except surfing!

I say this to lots of people, but google the 'surf simply' videos/podcasts and have a look at them. They do a great job explaining why you have to do the things that seem wrong.

[Totally Tuna]

DTC & Jaffa,

Wanted to update our progress. Thanks to both of you for all your advice. Not only on this thread, but all throughout this site. It has helped me more than all my other searches. My daughter and I were out last week ahead of a storm swell that never really lived up to the hype. We were surfing very small clean swell about Knee high or less with about 5 minute lulls between swells. I would have never thought that I could catch waves this small, but in about an hour and half I rode about 10 waves catching about 70% of my attempts. I could have never done it with out the encouragement and advice from this site. My daughter is still concerned about pearling and won't commit to larger waves, but has fun when it's small like last trip. She is catching most waves on her own and turns better than I do, but she is still not surfing on her glass board. She is asking to bring it along, but we haven't broken it out of the bag yet.

[dtc]

Thanks for the thanks! Naturally great to see that you are getting there. It does take a while, then you seems to 'cross the Rubicon' and suddenly the pop up works and you stop perling. Then you have to start learning a lot of other things! But another 10 or 20 sessions or whatever, and you will be there.