Nose diving issue

[BaNZ]

I surf on a sandy beach and use a 9"0 soft top longboard. 172cm tall and around 62kg. I only managed to start standing up by myself a week ago. I would say I can ride around half the waves and the other half I would end up tumbling in the water due to nose dive. The wave is around 2-3 feet. I have tried sitting as way back as possible, sometimes so much that the nose raise above the water and I struggle to gain any speed while paddling. I still get a nose dive when the wave pushes the nose into the water.

I find the way to combat this problem is that if I get nose dive, I quickly stand up or squat down then shift my weight to the back. But this is quite risky as I'm usually in a panic as I know a nose dive is coming. If I do it too slow then I will take the dive and the board will be flying high up in the air. If I manage to bring myself up then the board will sort of jump off the wave and go down the slope. I gain a lot of speed by doing this but I lose the stability and I don't feel like I'm in control. I feel that I gain speed momentarily. Then I slow down and get pushed by the same wave again.

I asked a few of my friends who are slightly more experienced than me and they said I'm probably not far back enough on the board. Or that I'm not outside enough (which is also true because the wave is small this weekend so I've been going further inside to catch the small waves but they seem to tumble a lot more when they hit the shallow shore). One said that it is most probably because I'm trying to catch every single wave that comes across especially ones that are breaking on me. He said not to catch the wave if the angle is too steep, should just sit up and let the wave pass and that I should always look behind to see where the wave is at. But I tend not to do this cos I panic if I see it comes crashing down on me. All of the above is probably true?

I find it difficult to gain speed while I'm using this board. I tried using a friend's funboard around 7" and I'm able to gain speed quicker. But I'm told many times that I'm a beginner and I should just use a 9" longboard. I think I can't paddle fast enough which also contributes to the nose dive.

Any advice please? I've hit myself a couple of times already due to nose dive and I'm a hazard to myself and others around me. I'm so scared of injuring other people that I will not try and take the wave if I see anyone anywhere near me. Is it normal for a beginner to experience so much nose diving or should I just give up before I seriously injure myself.

[Lebowski]

A smaller board will be easier to accelerate up to paddling speed, as a bigger board has more inertia to overcome. BUT, a bigger board paddles faster once up to speed and starts to plane (ie catch the wave) earlier. The solution is to start paddling a little earlier to get up to speed.

A lot of beginners tend to lay too far back on their board to avoid nosedives. This is counterproductive, because the board paddles slower when you are too far back, and you actually end up catching the wave later, when it is steeper and more critical. This causes the inevitable nose dive.
What you need to do I suspect, is move forward on the board when you're paddling, and paddle earlier and as hard as you can. Lazy paddling/lack of commitment will also result in a nosedive. Of course, timing is also important. Try and keep glancing back at the wave to see how steep it is, and estimate how steep it will be when it gets to you. If it's too steep or about to break, then let it pass under you and get the next one.

If you are surfing a shoredump type wave that will make it even harder, but on a 9ft foamie, you can catch waves very early, especially at your weight, so try going a little further out and paddling for the less steep ones.

Unfortunately at this stage, you don't have the paddling strength to catch waves real early, so you're nosediving because they're steep when you get them. Keep at it, and your paddling will improve and you'll be fine.

[dtc]

Lebowski has it - almost certainly you arent paddling fast enough. Potentially the wrong wave, wrong angle or on the wave too late, but probably paddling.

One good tip that works is to keep your head down when paddling (looking straight down at the board) and then, when you feel the wave catching the board, look up (at where you want to go, not straight at the beach), arch your back and then pop up. The head straight down helps build up speed because your weight is forward.

Have a look here

http://www.surfsimply.com/podcast/

at the first podcast 'catching waves', it should help you out a lot. Actually, if you have time watch all of their podcasts, they are by far the best on the net in my opinion.

Btw, nose diving is also called 'perling' and if you do a search on the forums here you will find lots of advice on it.

[BaNZ]

Thank you both, I definitely agree that I'm not paddling fast enough. I was surfing for around 5-6 hours yesterday and towards the end I don't have enough energy to paddle hard anymore.

The video helps a lot as I can now see what I'm doing wrong, I can finally picture myself in those scenario. When I first learn to surf a few weeks ago the instructor didn't have much time to teach me the types of waves and the ones that I need to catch or avoid. The podcast does explain the waves a lot better.

Thanks again, I will try train my paddling strength!

[jaffa1949]

Nose diving pearling is a big learning issue so here is another thread on this site that helped
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18814

[dtc]

Thank you both, I definitely agree that I'm not paddling fast enough. I was surfing for around 5-6 hours yesterday and towards the end I don't have enough energy to paddle hard anymore.

Only 5-6 hours and you were running out of energy...

When I was learning my biggest problem was actually getting my mind to believe I should paddle as fast as possible away from the wave. It just seems wrong, so you slow down and wait for the wave and also think that if you are going slower it will make things easier because if you are going slower you will have more time.

But it doesnt. So paddle hard!

[BaNZ]

My fitness level is quite low and I don't have much stamina. Haven't really done much exercise since I started working. Plus I'm 30 now so it is taking a huge toll on my body. All my shoulder muscles are in pain today so I will probably rest for a few days before I head to the beach again.

I'm not paddling hard because when I was playing with the white wash, I realise I don't need to paddle and I can still stand up. I only found out from the video that a lot of beginner makes the same mistake of thinking riding the wave is the same as riding the wash.

I really have to say I love surfing! I got bruises, injuries and stung by jelly fish but I still keep pushing myself to go at least every week. 3 times last week.

[dtc]

I was kidding about the 5-6 hours by the way - anything over 2 hours and I'm buggered. I dont know anyone who surfs for 5-6 hours; well maybe they do once but then need to rest for several days. I'm sure Kelly Slater or whoever can do it, but not us mortals.

A good way to get a feel for waves, rather than whitewater, is to try body surfing or body boarding. For example, if you try to body surf by just laying down as the wave comes, you quickly discover it doesnt work (like not paddling when on the board). Its much easier to catch waves body surfing/boarding, so its good practice for this specific purpose (ie getting the feel of catching a breaking wave). Doesnt take you much beyond that in terms of surfing however.

Anyway, once recovered, now that you know what to do you can go and do it. Keep us posted

[still-learning]

Hey Banz, keep at it. It will get easier, just need as much time in the water as possible. However, 5-6 hour session is hectic. I am tired just thinking about it!

[BaNZ]

Hey Banz, keep at it. It will get easier, just need as much time in the water as possible. However, 5-6 hour session is hectic. I am tired just thinking about it!

Thanks, I was so worried that I won't be welcomed for asking silly questions!

I did take breaks between. 3 long breaks plus I spent quite some time sitting on the board chatting with the locals and waiting for wave to come in.

I regret spending so much time surfing on Sunday. My palms are all red and sore from the friction.I didn't notice until I got into the car and found out I can barely hold the steering wheel. I only stopped because I couldn't even push myself up when I got on the final wave. It was then I realise that my arms have given up and it is time to go home...

[dtc]

Its always good to have a little bit left in the tank just in case your leash breaks and you have to swim in. But thats easier said than done when you are having fun.

You dont get sore palms from a normal board - time to dump the foamie!

[still-learning]

Its always good to have a little bit left in the tank just in case your leash breaks and you have to swim in. But thats easier said than done when you are having fun.

You dont get sore palms from a normal board - time to dump the foamie!

I agree with DTC, dump the foamie!

[BaNZ]

Yes, the leash did break that day. But it only broke after I got up to the shore. I was staying at the shallow end so the water only got to my neck if I stood up.

Tried my friend epoxy board that day and I really like it. It was a lot lighter and I feel I can control the board easier. Can turn and paddle faster. But it was too slippery, not used to it yet. When I got back to the foamie, it just feels heavy, clumsy and too big to turn. Hence it enticed me into buying a board.

[dtc]

Yeah, foam boards are big and buoyant and easy to paddle and pretty stable and good if you smash into someone else (like happens during surf school). And they go pretty well in a straight line.

But they are hard to turn and heavy and actually not as stable as a good longboard. They are great for what they are, but their limits are usually reached fairly quickly. There are some higher quality softboards around (usually PU core with padding rather than totally foam), but these are designed mostly for use in crowded areas where you arent allowed to use a normal board. Otherwise standard boards - PU or epoxy or whatever - are a much better choice. Different, faster, but better.

By 'slippery' what do you mean? Boards shouldn't be slippery, if they are the wax is in the wrong spot. Or do you mean 'slippery' as in fast and shooting out from under your feet? (in which case your pop up isnt quite right)

In any event - buy a board, surf, have fun, report back!

[BaNZ]

I tend to grab hold of my rails with my legs and hands when I sit on the board. So I found it a bit difficult in the beginning because it was slippery and I can't hold the board still. But after about half an hour I got used to it and realise I don't need to grab hold of it so tight.

My popup isn't quite right but I don't think I can correct it for now, I injured my ankle few months ago so I can't really jump up or apply too much pressure to it. I sort of lean forward and push myself up with my other feet. I used to be goofy leg but because of the injury, I switched to normal leg.

I will report back when I get my board! Going to get a roof rack first so I can go carry it. Trying to negotiate the price but they wouldn't budge as the board is brand new.

[BaNZ]

I went about twice after consulting with you guys. 1st time I only perl once on my first try. Out of habit I paddled without looking back at the wave so it probably was too steep for me. Then I started to look at the wave when I paddle and made sure that I give myself enough distance for 5 good paddle, but I find when I do that the board goes slightly to the left or right depends which way I'm looking at. This makes me surf sideway rather than straight towards the beach. I had a lot of fun doing that.

The second time was yesterday, it was low tide and the waves was breaking hard at the shore. There wasn't much distance so as soon as I got on the board, I can stand for about 3 seconds before the wave hits the shore and my nose dips into the water. Other people seem to be doing fine but maybe because they were surfing sideway rather than straight at the beach.. Was just so depressing as I didn't seem to be able to do anything about it.

[dtc]

Mate, you are meant to be surfing sideways, right from the start ie when you paddle you usually want to be going at a slight angle, then you surf along the wave.

[BaNZ]

Oh right... lol! Just that when I was taught to surf, I was told to go straight towards the beach. So I kept practicing that...

[jaffa1949]

The straight towards the beach is only for whitewater standing up,when you are really surfing you go across or along the wave on the the face ( unbroken part).

[BaNZ]

I've made a lot of progress! Got complimented twice today hehe. Probably cause I'm still using a foamy board. So I'm back here to thank you all!

There was a few factors that caused me to perl so much. The main one is my position, most of the time its cos I try and catch waves that is already too steep and it breaks on top of me. The other one is that I wasn't giving myself enough distance to paddle. Now I give it a good 5-6 good hard stroke before the wave gets to me. But sometimes I don't time it so well so I end up paddling too early and it drains too much stamina.

Is shortboard different in catching waves? Cos I see that they only start to paddle and kick their feet when the wave is right on them. They seem to paddle a lot later than LB. They also position themselves very close at the breaking point.