Minimal to fish transition

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Minimal to fish transition

Postby maxwolfie » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:02 pm

Hi all, I haven't been surfing that long (I've only been out about 15 times) but already I feel as though riding a minimal is holding back my turns and manoeuvrability. My instructor has also suggested that I'm decent enough to think about buying a fish surfboard. I can pop up very quickly and can make decent right handed bottom turns. I am struggling a little with left handed bottom turns on the minimal. Even with right handed bottom turns, the arc of the turn is extremely wide - it feels like driving a bus. This is really the main reason why I am wanting to upgrade to a fish.

I am surfing small - medium waves, anything from 2 - 4 ft (or thereabouts), however I probably could surf slightly larger and I am learning very quickly. If it makes any difference, I am surfing beaches around Newcastle, NSW, Australia. Ultimately my goal is to progress to a shortboard and try a few tricks.

I am a bit stuck on length, width and thickness though, I am also aware that there are a couple of different types of fish - retro and hybrid, and then of course fin setup is another consideration. Considering that I am 6'2" (188cm) and 176lbs (80kg), what type (retro or hybrid), fin setup and dimensions of fish should I be looking for?
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby drowningbitbybit » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:25 pm

Just a suggestion... don't get too dead-set on a fish. Hold on to your mini-mal for just a little bit longer, and see if you can try out a few different boards.
I'm not really convinced that fishes work for big buys (or at least don't feel nice) as they end up being a bit too long and you end up with a 'fishy mini-mal'. Also, fishes also tend to do slower carving turns (not as bad as a mini-mal though) so it might not help you out that much.

For someone your height/weight, experience and the beaches you're surfing, maybe you should think about getting a big shortboard (funboard, fatboy, whatever you want to call it). Something 6'10ish maybe, and with some volume, will get you into waves like a fish, but may be a better intermediate before going for a "real" shortboard (at 6'2, you'll probably only want to go down to 6'6 anyway).

But have a go on a fish, obviously :D
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby dtc » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:22 am

Firewire Addvance 6ft10 or 7'2 - or something like that (Grant Miller waterskate?).

Anyway, I do think - as DBB said - that you should head into a board shop and demo a board of the type you are thinking of. You may discover that its a bit beyond your abilities or may not. After 15 surfs there is still so much to learn, so many different conditions to surf in, bigger waves etc
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby maxwolfie » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:35 am

drowningbitbybit wrote:Just a suggestion... don't get too dead-set on a fish. Hold on to your mini-mal for just a little bit longer, and see if you can try out a few different boards.
I'm not really convinced that fishes work for big buys (or at least don't feel nice) as they end up being a bit too long and you end up with a 'fishy mini-mal'. Also, fishes also tend to do slower carving turns (not as bad as a mini-mal though) so it might not help you out that much.

For someone your height/weight, experience and the beaches you're surfing, maybe you should think about getting a big shortboard (funboard, fatboy, whatever you want to call it). Something 6'10ish maybe, and with some volume, will get you into waves like a fish, but may be a better intermediate before going for a "real" shortboard (at 6'2, you'll probably only want to go down to 6'6 anyway).

But have a go on a fish, obviously :D

Thanks, I will look at bigger fishes rather than smaller ones. I will try to demo at least one before buying something.

dtc wrote:Firewire Addvance 6ft10 or 7'2 - or something like that (Grant Miller waterskate?).

Anyway, I do think - as DBB said - that you should head into a board shop and demo a board of the type you are thinking of. You may discover that its a bit beyond your abilities or may not. After 15 surfs there is still so much to learn, so many different conditions to surf in, bigger waves etc

Thanks again for your help.

I am wondering if there is any advantage to buy a retro or hybrid style fish, and also the differences between twin/tri/quad fin setups?

EDIT: Would something like an NSP Fish 6'6" fit the bill? 6'6'' 21 3/8'' 2 5/8'' 43 ltr FCS M7 75kg / 165lb (I am 80kg though)
http://www.surfindustries.com.au/surfbo ... p_fish.php
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby still-learning » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:20 am

Hi Maxwolfie (Welcome to the site), heed the advice from the chaps above, they know what they are talking about. I also believe you will struggle on a shorter board, having said that, if you are prepared to go through a "frustration" period in your development, then by all means get the board you want. Remember, as a beginner, you need length and volume to assist in wave catching & stability etc.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with. Also posting pics of the new stick would be more than welcomed!
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby maxwolfie » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:39 am

still-learning wrote:Hi Maxwolfie (Welcome to the site), heed the advice from the chaps above, they know what they are talking about. I also believe you will struggle on a shorter board, having said that, if you are prepared to go through a "frustration" period in your development, then by all means get the board you want. Remember, as a beginner, you need length and volume to assist in wave catching & stability etc.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to go with. Also posting pics of the new stick would be more than welcomed!

I think I may need to borrow a fish first, as frustration isn't really something that I'm looking for :lol:
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby Dantastic1985 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Hi mate,

Welcome to SWF. I think the post above about heeding the advice is bang on. I have a 7ft 4 Mal and wanted to do the same. After about 8 months of going 2-3 times a month I thought it would be a great idea to progress. I met some friends, borrowed a 7S 6'6 fish, a 6'8 egg. The 6'6 fish felt like I was surfing on a dinner tray. Unbelievably unstable for my level (bearing in mind i pop up on my mal for fun in most conditions), so I moved to the egg. Loads better, could stand and ride on the white water a breeze. However catching unbroken waves was and still is a very different game. I was in the sea on a 3ft glassy day and caught one good wave in 2 hours on the egg. Got my Mal out of the car and then caught probably 10-15 great waves trimming and sliding around for fun in an hour. Bear in mind im 5'11 and 73kgs or 11.5 stone in old money and pretty fit. The shorter boards are so much harder to paddle/catch waves on. When you get up though its great and turns a treat.

Moral of the story is dont go to short to soon or you will lose all your stoke. As said, borrow, rent something smaller and see how you get on.

Good luck!
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby still-learning » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:31 pm

I think I may need to borrow a fish first, as frustration isn't really something that I'm looking for :lol:[/quote]

Well there you have it!! i think you are making a good choice by trying a few boards out 1st before splashing the cash out. Let us know how the "testing" goes, mate!
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby dtc » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:37 pm

Just to add to everyone's suggestions not to go too short too early, keep in mind that you can turn a minimal or longboard, its just a different method - rather than leaning and curving around (a 'rail turn'), you have to stomp on the back of the board and pivot around the fin.

If you look for longboard videos - people like Alex Knost or the old guys like McTavish and Nat Young - you will see they are perfectly capable of turning the boards. Sure they aren't Kelly Slater-ing the wave, and its not as quick and sudden, but to some extent the restrictions you found are due to lack of skill, not the board.

If you don't want to be frustrated for a long time - and who does - then I suggest nothing under 7ft and preferably mal shaped or at least with mostly soft rails and high volume. After 6 months or 12 months or whatever, then take the next step.

Don't go for a retro fish, they are an 'advanced' shape designed for specific conditions and are hard to surf from all accounts (never tried myself).
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby IB_Surfer » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:42 am

I had (just sold it) an 6'8 x 2 7/8 x 21 1/2 big retro fish and my begginer friends loved it, they always wanted to borrow that every time we went surfing. To me it paddles like a 7 1/2ft minimall but way more maneuverable. So, go retro, later you can go modern and smaller, after you get better it will become your small wave board which you will need anyhow.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby drowningbitbybit » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:20 am

dtc wrote:Don't go for a retro fish


themathteacher wrote:So, go retro


:lol: Good to see our usual level of consistency :lol:
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby dtc » Thu Jun 13, 2013 2:53 am

I'll defer to the math teacher - what I know about surfing retro fishes is limited to what I have read, not what I have done.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby IB_Surfer » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:30 am

Hi dtc, I didn't even read the your post, I usually give advise without following the thread LOL.

Yeah, the modern fishes are way better performers, but retro's are way better paddlers, which begginers need. I used mostly modern fishes until recently, I got a higher volume shortboard and got rid of my modern fish, kept the retro as my small wave board.

Here is my my retro in action in mush waves (disreguard the big guy on it):
Last edited by surf patrol on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby maxwolfie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:49 am

Still looking around and intending on riding some boards before ultimately deciding but I walked into my local store and found that they were having some great specials on Mark Richards boards as follows:

Puffer fish:
http://www.markrichardssurfboards.com/b ... puffer.php
Image
Image
This is a new model for 2009. It has more volume than the Flying Fish, and size for size, it is ¾" wider. It has been designed for surf in the 1' – 4' range and it excels in poor surf conditions.

Features:

added width, thickness and flatter rocker than the Flying Fish model, for performance in small waves;
a full nose with a low entry rocker for planing speed and ease of catching waves;
a single to double concave bottom with an accentuated V like spine in the double concave which gives it an easy rail to rail transition;
a double wing swallow to reduce the tail area which allows for quick direction changes and assists rail to rail transition;
a swallow tail for bite and holding power through turns.
Even though this is a wider fish, it is still designed to surf from rail to rail and can turn a small sloppy surf session into a ton of fun.
The standard fin setup is an FCS 3 fin thruster however it may be custom ordered with a Super Twin set-up of 2 FCS twin fins plus an FCS rear stabilizer fin OR an FCS Quad set-up. The size range is from 5'8" up to 7'2".








Squid:
http://www.markrichardssurfboards.com/b ... _squid.php
Image
Image
This is a new fish model for Summer 2010 / 2011 designed to make 2'-4' surf fun. It has less rocker and more width and thickness in the nose than my other 2 fishes ( Flying and Puffer). Like the other 2 it is a performance oriented fish and has been designed to surf rail to rail.

Features:

More thickness in the first 12" of the nose to improve floatation and paddling
No wings, which increases the tail area, which helps to keep it gliding in small surf
Low nose rocker for planing over dead sections
A single-to-double concave bottom with a pronounced spine on the stringer through the tail to give it a V-like feel which helps the board go from rail to rail
A slight deck roll resulting in increased volume in the rail to stop it sinking in small surf.
There are 3 options for the tail shape:
stock as a no-wing swallow tail
a wing-swallow
a wing-diamond.
Even though this is a wider fish, it is still designed to surf from rail to rail and can turn a small sloppy surf session into a ton of fun.
Standard fin set-up is FCS 3 fin Thruster but can be custom ordered as a Twin Fin with Stabiliser, or with 5 sets of plugs to give you the Quad / Thuster option.

The size range is from 5'6" up to 7'0".



The guy suggested 7'2" in either of these boards, I am not sure if that's too long and is going to end up being too similar to the Minimal (too hard to turn). Also not sure whether the shape of the Puffer fish or the Squid is going to be more suited to me.

I've asked my instructor to bring along a fish for me to try out this weekend, but the stocks above will be limited so I really want to be prepared if it all works out.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby dtc » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:17 am

themathteacher wrote:Hi dtc, I didn't even read the your post, I usually give advise without following the thread LOL.

Yeah, the modern fishes are way better performers, but retro's are way better paddlers, which begginers need. I used mostly modern fishes until recently, I got a higher volume shortboard and got rid of my modern fish, kept the retro as my small wave board.

Here is my my retro in action in mush waves (disreguard the big guy on it): https://vimeo.com/59964718


So at Sunset Cliffs you are literally surfing in front of the cliffs? I presume its a rocky/reef bottom out there. Looks interesting.

I had understood that retro fishes were designed to surf very short (shorter than a shortboard) and were more for smaller waves (but have generally been overtaken by the pod/dumpster style boards).

To Max - I had looked at the pufferfish myself not too long ago and thought it would be a good board for a beginner to intermediate. Out of the two, its definitely the one to go for - the other one is for bigger surf and higher performance. And everyone has told you to go longer, including the surf shop guy so we will still suggest going for the 7ft 2...and, unless you are a freak, you are not ready for higher performance boards.

Have a go with your instructor's board and see what you think. Any new board takes a few goes to get used to, but it will give you an idea.
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby maxwolfie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:34 am

dtc wrote:
themathteacher wrote:Hi dtc, I didn't even read the your post, I usually give advise without following the thread LOL.

Yeah, the modern fishes are way better performers, but retro's are way better paddlers, which begginers need. I used mostly modern fishes until recently, I got a higher volume shortboard and got rid of my modern fish, kept the retro as my small wave board.

Here is my my retro in action in mush waves (disreguard the big guy on it): https://vimeo.com/59964718


So at Sunset Cliffs you are literally surfing in front of the cliffs? I presume its a rocky/reef bottom out there. Looks interesting.

I had understood that retro fishes were designed to surf very short (shorter than a shortboard) and were more for smaller waves (but have generally been overtaken by the pod/dumpster style boards).

To Max - I had looked at the pufferfish myself not too long ago and thought it would be a good board for a beginner to intermediate. Out of the two, its definitely the one to go for - the other one is for bigger surf and higher performance. And everyone has told you to go longer, including the surf shop guy so we will still suggest going for the 7ft 2...and, unless you are a freak, you are not ready for higher performance boards.

Have a go with your instructor's board and see what you think. Any new board takes a few goes to get used to, but it will give you an idea.

Thanks again mate, you've been a great help. I intially thought the Squid would have been more suitable due to "More thickness in the first 12" of the nose to improve flotation and paddling", but I'll run with whatever you guys suggest :)
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Re: Minimal to fish transition

Postby IB_Surfer » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:18 am

dtc wrote:
So at Sunset Cliffs you are literally surfing in front of the cliffs? I presume its a rocky/reef bottom out there. Looks interesting.

I had understood that retro fishes were designed to surf very short (shorter than a shortboard) and were more for smaller waves (but have generally been overtaken by the pod/dumpster style boards).


Correct, a fish was not meant to be a begginer board and is supposed to be ridden shorter than the shortboard, but for begginer and big guys a big retro fish is awesome. For example, at 200lbs my mini simmons was 5'10. As you mentioned before, I am basing my advise based on experience, not on what the specs say on boards. Like I posted before, modern fishes (rubble, piranah, etc...) do perform better, but the retros have the awesome glide

Max: I can't tell the thickness from the web site, . Seems like more of a modern fish, narrow nose and thin, but it does look sweet lol. Try to get at least 2 3/4 inch thick.
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