Angling the board?

[one more dude]

Hi,

I'm trying to learn to go across the wave right from the take off. At the moment, I can do a take off but often end up too low when I do the bottom turn. As a result, much of the time I don't have enough speed to do a top turn.

I saw other surfers take off and even when the wave is not very steep , they somehow manage to do what looks like a bottom turn not at the bottom but more like in the middle of the wave. I thought angling the board was the answer but it only seems to work on steeper waves and even then it's not great. I might be doing it wrong though.

What is often happening to me is merely sliding down the wave face, then leaning on a side of the board to go one way or the other. With luck I still manage to follow the wave but others do it much nicer and more consistently.

I also tried putting my back foot directly over the fins . Sometimes it helps to turn faster, but other times it does not work...

I use a shortboard 6'10 and a longboard 8'2. The problem is more obvious on the bigger board .

Any advice or ideas?
Thanks!

[dtc]

Angling the board should work on all waves, steep or not.

Anyway its hard to give advice without seeing but two possibilities come to mind:

1. you are popping up 'too' late - so you are already partway down the wave when you pop up, then you take 1/2 wave to get balanced, start to turn - but you are already at the bottom of the wave. Solution is obviously pop up earlier (the standard instruction is 'when you feel the wave is taking your board, take 2 quick strong strokes and pop up'). On your longer board you should be able to pop up fairly early

2. not starting your turn early enough. Usually you can pop up and then start turning virtually straight away - you just have to lean into the wave, perhaps with a little bit of rear foot pressure.

Angling should assist - if you take off at (say) 30 deg angle, you only have to turn 60 deg to go along the wave and you are already heading in that direction. If you take off straight, the board wants to continue straight and you have to turn more.

Also do some research on the difference between carve turns and trim turns. This is a good video (http://www.surfsimply.com/podcast/ - scroll down to the 'carving/trimming' video). You need to do a trim turn (more or less) to cruise along the wave, but more of a carve turn to do a proper bottom turn. From your description you are trying do to a trim turn for your bottom turn - this only works if you are going fast. For small or non-powerful waves often you just dont turn very much no matter how hard you lean (especially on a longboard). Often you dig the rails in and fall off. That said, carve turns also dont work without some speed involved.

So:
- pop up early
- turn early
- focus on turning eg look at where you want to go - front shoulder should point in the intended direction (as a beginner I was advised to point my front hand where I wanted to go). Dont look down or at the beach. Lean into the wave.

It does take a while to put it all together - but you will get there eventually

[IB_Surfer]

Seems you are angling too much, which will cause your board to loose grip and slide down the face. Try a little less angle, but still angled, then turn into the wave as you pop up

[one more dude]

Hi,

dtc That makes sense. I did not know there was a distinction between different types of turns. I did notice that the rails dig in from time to time, mostly when the wave lacks power and I'm leaning too hard.

I had a look at the video and yes, clearly the carving turn would be a lot faster. I guess this is what I was trying to do by putting my back foot on the fins, something like pivoting the board. The problem is that the board is often slowing down as I put the pressure on the back. So I guess I need to figure out a way of doing that without slowing down.

themathteacher that's the reason why my new board (the longboard) has hard rails almost all the way to the nose... should help, right?

[surfgoth]

make sure your hand position is good. they should be at your sides, like at the middle of your ribs as you push up. thats crucial for making sure youre in the sweet spot once youre up.

this is important - make sure to look in the direction you want to ride, as you are paddling into the wave. dont look at your board. dont look at your hands on your board. look right or left, and keep looking as you pop up. your body will naturally follow. you will naturally angle into the direction you want to ride.

[dtc]

I had a look at the video and yes, clearly the carving turn would be a lot faster. I guess this is what I was trying to do by putting my back foot on the fins, something like pivoting the board. The problem is that the board is often slowing down as I put the pressure on the back. So I guess I need to figure out a way of doing that without slowing down.?

Yeah, its not really possible to put pressure on the back of your board and not slow down - thats what putting pressure on the board does. Obviously if you do it very quickly then the effect is reduced.

Turns are all about speed - you need speed to do them. So actually if you want to do a good bottom turn, you may need to go straight or almost straight down the wave, because that gives you the most speed (speed down the wave, then do a nice turn at the borrom). But if you just want to go along the wave, then you dont need that much speed - you just drop part way down the wave and turn your board sideways as you are going down.

Its like skateboarding or riding your bike down a hill - if you go straight down you go fast, but then you have to make a big turn at the bottom otherwise you end up a long way from the hill. But if you angle across the hill, you only need to make a slight turn/series of slight turns and you end up going across the hill.

Obviously the type of wave is also relevant. Powerful waves or point waves usually give you more speed or time to turn, in comparison to a weak beach break.

I do know exactly what you are speaking about, and as mentioned the key is to pop up and start turning ASAP

[surf doc]

this is important - make sure to look in the direction you want to ride, as you are paddling into the wave. dont look at your board. dont look at your hands on your board. look right or left, and keep looking as you pop up. your body will naturally follow. you will naturally angle into the direction you want to ride.

This is great advice. Looking down the line not only instinctively aims you down the line, it actually feels like you have more time to pop and get going. It's similar to when you are driving- instead of looking at the ground directly in front of the car, you look further down the road to plan your movements.

[IB_Surfer]

Hi,

themathteacher that's the reason why my new board (the longboard) has hard rails almost all the way to the nose... should help, right?

Yes, Harder rails means less slide down the face and easier cutting across. I always get harder rails too. But also means you have to pivot into your turn, make sure your back foot is far back enough to be able to do so

[Rickyroughneck]

Hi,

themathteacher that's the reason why my new board (the longboard) has hard rails almost all the way to the nose... should help, right?

Yes, Harder rails means less slide down the face and easier cutting across. I always get harder rails too. But also means you have to pivot into your turn, make sure your back foot is far back enough to be able to do so

Actually harder rails are more slippery, the water releases more instead of wrapping around. I've never heard of a surfboard with hard rails all to the nose though... very strange.

[one more dude]

Hi dtc

Thanks, it all makes sense to me. I'm working on this, it's a hit and miss at the moment... As usual, at some point my body will finally figure out how to do it. Hopefully.

Cheers

[one more dude]

Hi Rickyroughneck,

Here is my new surfboard. I don't know if you can see the rails there though. It's also got a bit of a rocker, which I like too.

Cheers

[IB_Surfer]

Actually harder rails are more slippery, the water releases more instead of wrapping around. I've never heard of a surfboard with hard rails all to the nose though... very strange.

Harder rails aren't more slippery, ask any shaper what they recommend for steep hollow waves.

but I would not have them all the way to the nose, mine go a couple of inches past the fins, more than usual, but not all the way up.

[IB_Surfer]

Nice looking board

[Rickyroughneck]

Hi Rickyroughneck,

Here is my new surfboard. I don't know if you can see the rails there though. It's also got a bit of a rocker, which I like too.

Yeah, can see the hard edge go at least beyond the red. How does it surf?


Themathteacher, it depends what you mean by "slippery". Boards have hard rails at the back to let the water release off the back which allows them to go fast; conversely some noseriders have soft rails all the way which stick the rear end into the wave more since the water sucks as it wraps around them (Bernoulli's effect).