best longboard?

[k mac]

Roy cant argue with that

and about your reputation try going to google and type 'Roy Stewart' youll be quite suprised!

[Roy Stewart]

Gulfsurfer, please excuse me for being a pedantic, hairsplitting iconoclast for what I am about to say:

Let's say that Surftech boards are poor in terms of some standard or other of performance. If they are, then it's not because they are made in a 'foreign' country by a 'twelve year old kid' because they could just as easily be made in Texas by geriatrics and that wouldn't change their performance at all. If they are not providing a 'good' ride then it is because of the actual physical product. Bagging those boards because of where they are built is mysterioso nonsense again .. . and is really weird because they are boards which are designed by the supposedly 'best' shapers in the world. . . like they weren't designed in a 'foreign' country were they? Criticising surftech because the boards are built in Asia by nonsurfers is ridiculous and more or less implies that a board will perform well only if it is actually touched by the master. This is ridiculous.
My personal opinion is that conventional longboard design has stagnated because of noseriding requirements which drastically reduce the effective performance of the board in terms of basic indicators like speed, tuberiding ability and ease of control. Thus the boards which are pumped up as the best are really obsolete boards designed to a handicap rule, in the same way that some yachts are designed to rating rules which inhibit performance ( The old IYRU rules produced chronically slow 'Teapots')
It's really no use hiding behind the old names anymore. The Malibu is an outdated slowboard and we need to move on in longboard design by treating longboards as surfboards not just floating stages for stylish poses.

[k mac]

i hear you say that longboards should move on Roy because thet are 'not just floating stages for stylish poses'. But thats what the board is designed for thats what people want longboards for, nose riding,crosstepping so on its certainly what attracts me to longboarding,but longboard design has moved on a lot since the days of carving up a old log in hawaii ,then the newer simpler plain longboards,then on to the designs of today with the diffrent shape rails and the diffrent rockers and concaves and all thing like that mabye it has stagneted a bit but surley there is people out there right now trying out new longboard designd there all ways will be thats the beuty of it no one wil let the evolution of board design die whatever you may think, and im sure in years to cme it will evolve even more ,but if someone wanted a longboard for just speed and the sort of riding you do on your videos and your mentioning wouldnt they go to a shaper and ask them to shape them a board for that????thats the point of surfing the way of exspressing yourself with individuality the way you wanna ride your board and shape your boards thats the way it will always be ,no one should care wheter you like pump your shortboard and surf in a mad fast way or just mellow out on a 17ft wooden booard .Also 'just treating longboards like a surf bord' thats what they are but like you said they are also a platform for many tricks and 'poses' and thats the great thing about longboarding,thats what makes longboarding the part of surfing it is love it or hate, it id prefer to see somone hanging ten toes over the nose on a 10 ft log then just plain old riding it !

[Roy Stewart]

Possibly, but most surfers just want what they are told to want . . . they just jump on the current bandwagon . . . excuse me for being cynical but I find it strange that the qualities of certain designs are completely ignored until there is a major marketing drive . . and then they are the latest trend.
Take the seventies singlefin shortboards for example . . I rode them exclusively throughout the seventies and eighties . . and up until 1996, because I always found that they were a joy to ride in pointbreak waves and would outperform thrusters in terms of subtle highline drives and in section making ability. I can honestly say that I copped a lot of ridicule and abuse for riding my collection of seventies singles. . . . but look at it now, it's the latest rage.
The seventies singlefin has come back quite simply because it is necessary for the surf industry to rehash old fashions in order to keep their marketing strategy fresh . . . so that retro clothes, boards, and movies can be sold. Of course the retro seventies trend is presenting something real and enjoyable, I am not denying that, but the fact is that surfers turned their noses up at the concept until they were told that it is the latest 'cool'. The hydrodynamic qualities of the boards haven't changed though have they?
With longboarding, it is hardly surprising that so many people miraculously exercise their free will and individuality by deciding to all do the same little longboarding dance. . . . it is because they are being bombarded by advertising telling them to do it. The fact is though, that following the noseriding and cross stepping trend means that you wind up with a relatively dysfunctional board in terms of wavemaking ability and ease of control. People don't know this because all the other longboards around them are slow and difficult to ride. Bummer? Well that depends. . . . most people just want to hang in the crowd, and don't actually care if they can't make the wave while someone else does, as long as they look cool walking up the beach and are in with the 'boys'.
It does crack me up though when I get the only long, fast rides in a session out of a large pack of 'Malibus', and I don't mind if it stays that way.
I also doubt if many of the name shapers could create a fast, easy to ride longboard. They haven't yet been dialled into the concept by Big Brother, and they have little practice at designing from first principles.

[babyboarder89]

you make some good points (everyone) but what about the boards which are no made for crosstepping/noseriding, but can turn etc aswell, i realise having ridden very few boards i have quite limited knowledge of this but first hand experience-the board i have isnt made for noseriding, but it can, and its no extreme progressive board either, but it turns just lovely, isnt it possible that boards can do all things just enough to be grea-shapings about compromise right? so you couldnt have a board that is a perfect noserider and turns awesome every time.
and isnt it also possible that eveyones started using retro boards and longboards because they ride well (like roy said) and the marketing brought that to their attention, and surely if marketing is bringing the masses better boards and making peopel have more fun than they would on a traditional thruster, isnt that good? less agro's always good to me

[duhkine]

I see that everyone has their own opinions, so lets stick to hearing personal opinions rather than commenting on other opinions. As far as Roy's comments, I would agree that his boards appear to be very good, since I have seen the video of the board in action. They are a bit on the expensive side are they? Nevertheless this is about best boards, not best value. I would imagine that many people would not have access to such a board, so they would say that another board they are familiar with is their choice of best board. I also heard of large heavy wooden handcarved boards made by Hawaiian shaper Tom Stone, which are authentic and pretty expensive. I imagine that they are similar to Roy's boards, but they are reminiscent of the ancient Hawaiian days. Tom has a site on his beautiful works but I don't know it offhand. Hopefully we can continue to add to the list of "best boards" (personal opinions). Good luck with finding your ideal boards for all you prospective new longboard owners.

Aloha!

[gulfsurfer]

Gulfsurfer, please excuse me for being a pedantic, hairsplitting iconoclast for what I am about to say:

Let's say that Surftech boards are poor in terms of some standard or other of performance. If they are, then it's not because they are made in a 'foreign' country by a 'twelve year old kid' because they could just as easily be made in Texas by geriatrics and that wouldn't change their performance at all. If they are not providing a 'good' ride then it is because of the actual physical product. Bagging those boards because of where they are built is mysterioso nonsense again .. . and is really weird because they are boards which are designed by the supposedly 'best' shapers in the world. . . like they weren't designed in a 'foreign' country were they? Criticising surftech because the boards are built in Asia by nonsurfers is ridiculous and more or less implies that a board will perform well only if it is actually touched by the master. This is ridiculous.
My personal opinion is that conventional longboard design has stagnated because of noseriding requirements which drastically reduce the effective performance of the board in terms of basic indicators like speed, tuberiding ability and ease of control. Thus the boards which are pumped up as the best are really obsolete boards designed to a handicap rule, in the same way that some yachts are designed to rating rules which inhibit performance ( The old IYRU rules produced chronically slow 'Teapots')
It's really no use hiding behind the old names anymore. The Malibu is an outdated slowboard and we need to move on in longboard design by treating longboards as surfboards not just floating stages for stylish poses.

Ok, first of all, i said that the reason i would never want to ride one is because i believe there is no soul in a board made by a little kid who doesnt even know about surfing, but is forced to build these boards to survive. When i get a new board, i want to be there with the shaper watching it progress to the finished product. In your opinion it is "ridiculous" to criticize a board because it was shaped by nonsurfers in asia, but in my opinion its ridiculous not to get one from a shaper who also surfs or atleast knows about surfing.
The reason i longboard is for the cruise. I dont get on a longboard to rip, ill save that for a shortboard. Its all about the flow to me on a longboard and its also all about noseriding. You may want to rip on a longboard but hey, whatever floats your boat.

[deathfrog]

Possibly, but most surfers just want what they are told to want . . . they just jump on the current bandwagon . . . excuse me for being cynical but I find it strange that the qualities of certain designs are completely ignored until there is a major marketing drive . . and then they are the latest trend.
Take the seventies singlefin shortboards for example . . I rode them exclusively throughout the seventies and eighties . . and up until 1996, because I always found that they were a joy to ride in pointbreak waves and would outperform thrusters in terms of subtle highline drives and in section making ability. I can honestly say that I copped a lot of ridicule and abuse for riding my collection of seventies singles. . . . but look at it now, it's the latest rage.
The seventies singlefin has come back quite simply because it is necessary for the surf industry to rehash old fashions in order to keep their marketing strategy fresh . . . so that retro clothes, boards, and movies can be sold. Of course the retro seventies trend is presenting something real and enjoyable, I am not denying that, but the fact is that surfers turned their noses up at the concept until they were told that it is the latest 'cool'. The hydrodynamic qualities of the boards haven't changed though have they?
With longboarding, it is hardly surprising that so many people miraculously exercise their free will and individuality by deciding to all do the same little longboarding dance. . . . it is because they are being bombarded by advertising telling them to do it. The fact is though, that following the noseriding and cross stepping trend means that you wind up with a relatively dysfunctional board in terms of wavemaking ability and ease of control. People don't know this because all the other longboards around them are slow and difficult to ride. Bummer? Well that depends. . . . most people just want to hang in the crowd, and don't actually care if they can't make the wave while someone else does, as long as they look cool walking up the beach and are in with the 'boys'.
It does crack me up though when I get the only long, fast rides in a session out of a large pack of 'Malibus', and I don't mind if it stays that way.
I also doubt if many of the name shapers could create a fast, easy to ride longboard. They haven't yet been dialled into the concept by Big Brother, and they have little practice at designing from first principles.


:lol:

Roy I think you're just on a different "bandwagon", you like doing what's practical, but I think you have reached a point now that you want to just want to show people you don't have to have a board that a pro is riding to ride well. I also disagree about your comment about many name shapers probally wouldn't be able to make a fast and easy to ride longboard, and they do have lots of practice at designing from first principles, if they wern't, why did they get so big in the first place? By copying you, because the way you put it is you're the only one who knows this.

And what you said about the surftechs, some kid pumps the foam into the molds to make a living, not because like many shapers they like shaping, big name or not, they surf, and they know about surfing. If you take one of these prep kids of today that wear all the in style "surfer bandwagon"/"california bandwagon" type clothes and told them to make a surfboard, and never hear how to make it better, they couldn't do it. But if you gave them a set of directions about how to pump foam into this mold, then you get the same thing as a surftech, even in texas.

But why shapers get big, is they because they do their homework and can figure out why their boards work or don't, and can figure out how to improve them. I'm a shaper myself, I'm 15, and if I wanted to I could make a fast longboard if I wanted to, I've done my homework, I research, I test, I make models, and I try to figure out why they do what they do, and thats why bigger name shapers have gotten their name, from doing the same thing and making a superior product that made more money, therefore could afford more advertising, sponsor a better a better team, get more experience as a shaper, and make an even better product than before. Even though my team consists of two people, I've never published an add, I sell my boards because they work, and the product itself gets better.

Making the same thing over and over again you can learn things, ridign the same thing over and over again you can learn things, you can learn how to make your longboard work like a shortboard, make a practical shortboard, or do what everyone else does and try and get away with it (which I feel is what your opinion of most other shapers is).

I do agree with you with the retro thing, but I also think they had it right the first time and things have been devolving from there. If you want to use the shapes of the past, go ahead, our modern boards aren't better, just fit the modern style better. If your style is to ride hot curls and trim down long faces, then obviously it's not the modern style and do not need a modern board, but this retro thing, is just a re-introduction of old stuff because it does work, but doesen't fit the modern style, so they take the same ideas and make a 'fish' that's just a 6'2 thruster with an extra 1/4" all around and stick a swallow tail on it and there they go, they call it a fish. All it is is a thhruster with a swallow tail, and people are calling this retro, and I think that's waht this retro thing is, not you criticizing people like me who like to ride bonzers and twinzers instead of potato chips just because they work better for what I want to use them for. I ride funboards, why, they work. If they were invented 40 years ago I would still ride them, and I'm sure they were.


Now, lets get back to the topic of longboards.

[Roy Stewart]

In your opinion it is "ridiculous" to criticize a board because it was shaped by nonsurfers in asia, but in my opinion its ridiculous not to get one from a shaper who also surfs or atleast knows about surfing.
The reason i longboard is for the cruise. I dont get on a longboard to rip, ill save that for a shortboard. Its all about the flow to me on a longboard and its also all about noseriding. You may want to rip on a longboard but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Hi Gulfsurfer,

Actually surftechs are not shaped in Asia (and I didn't ever say that they were) . . the whole point with them is that the shape is determined by famous (mainly American) shapers. If you don't like them then it's not because the shapes are Asian!
It's just as you say though . . whatever 'floats your boat' is what's best for you. The trouble with the term 'best' is that it covers subjective and objective values. Some people are after the 'soul' in a longboard touched by the master . . others want a board which will win a noseriding competition, others want what is socially acceptable or fashionable. There are such a raft of reasons as to why people buy a particular board that it's really hard to pin down by asking what's 'best'. Perhaps 'favourite' would be a better term. Who can argue if a man says 'This is my favourite longboard' ? No one can argue with a statement like that, it is indisputable.
The trouble with 'best' longboard is that it suggests an objective standard . . . and in my opinion any attempt to determine what is 'best' in terms of objectively achievable performance has to be based on basic waveriding functions such as speed and control, rather than arbitrary and fashionable criteria such as noseriding ability.



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[gulfsurfer]

I never said the shapes are foreign, i'm aware that they use popular shapes from popular shapers and send them to whatever country it is and make a kid shape them in a sweat shop.
And yes i think this should be "favourite longboard" because everyone has a different opinion.

[Roy Stewart]

I also disagree about your comment about many name shapers probally wouldn't be able to make a fast and easy to ride longboard, and they do have lots of practice at designing from first principles, if they wern't, why did they get so big in the first place?

Well the point is that I have so many surfs where the water is chocka with 'name' shapes and team riders but I am the only one making the waves! If the 'name' shapers are so good at making fast boards then why don't they make one now and then? I can tell you one thing about speed, and that is that no longboard can go faster than a flexible tunnel finned pintail. I can tell you one thing about name shapers too . . . they got big by hanging with the herd, and none of them know anything about tunnel finned surfboards unless they heard it from me!
The speed challenge is on Brother. . . go sharpen your planer blades!

I'm a shaper myself, I'm 15, and if I wanted to I could make a fast longboard if I wanted to,

I challenge you to do it!

. . . . and thats why bigger name shapers have gotten their name, from doing the same thing and making a superior product that made more money, therefore could afford more advertising, sponsor a better a better team, get more experience as a shaper, and make an even better product than before. . . . .

This is a myth . . . the bigger name shapers do not necessarily make a 'better' product . . they just make more money. A fashionable item is not always 'better' . . and one thing is certain . . big name shapers are always carefully fashionable as their first criteria for success.

. . . . .making the same thing over and over again you can learn things, riding the same thing over and over again you can learn things

That's not what I would call learning. Start trying to go faster . . . then you will be learning!

. . . and I think that's waht this retro thing is, not you criticizing people like me who like to ride bonzers and twinzers instead of potato chips just because they work better for what I want to use them for.

I didn't criticise you for riding bonzers . . but I bet you wouldn't be doing it unless the global surf industry machine had dialled you into it!

<edit dead link>

[duhkine]

Ok the whole reason why I created this topic was to know which board was the "best" for me. I wanted to hear about all types of boards and learn about them. This is because I'm planning on buying a new board. Ok I may agree that Roy has the best longboards in the world. However, I don't think I can afford it. So I guess I was looking for a board within my budget and I assumed that most boards are, but the introduction of the wooden funnel boards made me think that there are other boards out there. I'm still looking for a board, but it should be one available to me and I probably will look around at local shapers. Having a good board doesn't mean that I will be able to ride it well. In Roy's case, he probably has the best board and is maybe one of the best surfers, therefore he catches more waves. I think more people are interested in hearing about more boards that are good to others. We already know that the wooden tunnel pintail board is one of the greatest, but I can't imagine everyone to be interested in them and I think people are looking forward to hearing about other boards rather than reading about board differences, but thats my own opinion. Have a good one.

Aloha!

[babyboarder89]

dunkhine! your 15 and selling self shaped board allready thats awesome! i too am 15 (what a great age!) and have recently started shaping my first board, im having tons of fun, i got a super cheap EPS blank from wickes and ive been refining and drawing and have now sanded back to the line, the next step is top make a top and bottom and rails so im dead excited, does anyone know (as it seems there are plenty of knowledgeable folks around) if you can use Volan cloth and polyester resin on an EPS blank? or can you only use epoxy, if you can only use epoxy resin with EPS, can you use volan cloth with Epoxy and if you can/cant, what kind of finish does epoxy give, is polyester better or is epoxy? whats stronger, whats easier to use? ta for any input...

[deathfrog]

That's not what I would call learning. Start trying to go faster . . . then you will be learning!

but you're still doing the same thing, but with refinements, which isk inda what I ment in the first place but aren't good at translating my ideas into words.

I didn't criticise you for riding bonzers . . but I bet you wouldn't be doing it unless the global surf industry machine had dialled you into it!

They never dialled me into it, my friend's dad was sponsored by plastic fantastic, and they were testing new shapes, and one of them happened to be a bonzer. He loved it, no one else did, and so they never offered them to the public. But he did keep the board, adn even before I knew what it was called I loved how it rode, I had never even seen one before. I had laughed at it at first, thiking it was funny looking, but I got into the water and it just was killer.

This is a myth . . . the bigger name shapers do not necessarily make a 'better' product . . they just make more money. A fashionable item is not always 'better' . . and one thing is certain . . big name shapers are always carefully fashionable as their first criteria for success.

At some point in time, to get their name known, their boards had to excell in one way or another, such as maybe it could have been flashy advertising or getting well known locals to ride them, but if they didn't work better than what everyone else was riding, would they have kept getting sold?

I challenge you to do it!

Ha sorry, I have no money right now, I need like five gallons of epoxy, need cloth, adn need to glass something like five boards? I don't have time, but if I do, then I'll give it a go.

Well the point is that I have so many surfs where the water is chocka with 'name' shapes and team riders but I am the only one making the waves! If the 'name' shapers are so good at making fast boards then why don't they make one now and then? I can tell you one thing about speed, and that is that no longboard can go faster than a flexible tunnel finned pintail. I can tell you one thing about name shapers too . . . they got big by hanging with the herd, and none of them know anything about tunnel finned surfboards unless they heard it from me!
The speed challenge is on Brother. . . go sharpen your planer blades!

how many were riding an effective board for the waves? Name shapers might not necessarly find that speed is an important element in their longboards, and decide to leave it out. Maybe they just had no desire to make their longboards fastest in the first place.

babyboarder, I'm not gunna tell you about the poly and eps, but try it on a scrap peice first and see what happens to it. :wink:

Uhh, no idea about the volan and epoxy, I'm perty sure it should work, but might have some lamination problems with the cloth sticking to the foam, epoxy tends to make a really dry lam and I'm not sure if it would stick well to the blank, you might have some delam problems later down the line. Again, another thing to test on your scrap foam.

I like epoxy because it doesen't require sanding after your hotcoat, you can, but it's not required. The finish kinda depends on the epoxy you use, if you use surfboard epoxy it'll probally come out looking quite alot like poly, and if you're using boat resin, well, it'll probally end up looking like a boat.

Sorry for the off topic postst dunkhine, but you're in hawaii right? You could probally sit on the beach and watch the people catching the most waves and go ask them what they like when they paddle in, and try that because we can't seem to post what you're supposed to on these threads...

[babyboarder89]

ive done a bit of research and it sems the best way to go with EPS is toput a coat of PVA glue on first to help te resin bond to it, id like to go with poly resin but i dont know how easy it wil be to get anything really, im not buying stuff from seabase or homeblown because the shipping is just ridiculou, i got my blank for less than teh shipping would cost, (ive spent £8 so far and have an almost shaped blank) luckily there are several fibreglass suppliers in leicester so im trying to save soem money there. thanks for he help

[duhkine]

dunkhine! your 15 and selling self shaped board allready thats awesome! i too am 15 (what a great age!) and have recently started shaping my first board, im having tons of fun, i got a super cheap EPS blank from wickes and ive been refining and drawing and have now sanded back to the line, the next step is top make a top and bottom and rails so im dead excited, does anyone know (as it seems there are plenty of knowledgeable folks around) if you can use Volan cloth and polyester resin on an EPS blank? or can you only use epoxy, if you can only use epoxy resin with EPS, can you use volan cloth with Epoxy and if you can/cant, what kind of finish does epoxy give, is polyester better or is epoxy? whats stronger, whats easier to use? ta for any input...

Sorry thats Deathfrog that shapes. You probably got us mixed up. I know nothing about shaping. However, I can customize board to be full of dings and holes (like mine). Well good luck on the shaping and hopefully you can become a great shaper in the years to come.

Aloha!

[deathfrog]

ha yea I basicly do the same thing, I glue my own blanks and save a bunch (mostly because of shipping).

But the pva glue, NO NO NO NO NO!

If you get any water in your board at all, any, it will melt, and you'll never get it sealed again and have a big delam problem.

If you just have to seal it, use spackle, the stuff you put on drywall to patch holes and stuff, and it fills up all the holes and everything, and soaks up resin so it doesen't melt in water like glue will, and will give a much better bond. After you get it all spackled, go over it with like 220 grit and if you like it go ahead and start glassing after you make sure all the dust is off, or you can apply another coat of spackle and sand again. If you want to paint it, do not use spray paint, it'll do the same thing the poly resin does, so use just some tempra or something, do some cool splatter effect if you want, but put some kind of logo or something on to reference yourself to when you lay down quickly after sitting and start paddling, it will help (and quickly notice if it's not there).

Good luck with it, did I read you had it shaped allready? If you do, show us pictures! It can't be any worse than my first try, but even if it's not show us how far you've gotten.

When you get to the glassing I'll help you with that too if you want.

[babyboarder89]

sorry yes i did put the worng name but you all knew what i meant..
ive heard spackle is the stuff but i have no idea what it is! is it the same as pollyfiller? because i can get that.
ive not shaped it shaped it as such, its a basic outline, no rails as of yet but im working on it, its about 3" all over at the moment so when rail shaping do i need to curve downwards from the middle or just go flat on the deck and do the rail from about 5" or something in from the edge, if that makes sense
ill show you pictures when i can. thankyou so much for the help!
im pretty sure i will need more soon

[babyboarder89]

ok here goes some pictures of my board, im done shaping now, basically i cant be botrhered to do anymore, so im polyfilla ing then glassing i hope. more pics to follow...

[Roy Stewart]

A very nice planshape!