what matters for a learner? bigger or more volume?

[daaaaaave]

hello! im dave is this is my first post. im super stoked to start learning to surf, and im just sort of gathering all the information i can so i can avoid making a bad purchase, mistakes, etc.
pretty much everyone ive spoken to has told me that i need to either go big for a first board, or find a funboard. im about 145lbs, and 5'9". yesterday i strolled into ZJ boarding house in santa monica just to look. got into a conversation with a salesman, who pretty much reiterated what i should be getting. but then, he told me that although a bit pricey, that the best option would be this 6'6" firewire addvance board, and that he has taught people on that exact board. its obviously much shorter than anything ive been recommended before, but i guess has the right amount of float for someone my size. i just thought id ask what some of you guys think. id like to get on a shortboard one of these days, but im willing to do it right and go through the whole process of learning to surf the right way. if i can really start on something shorter, that would be cool. what say you?

[jaffa1949]

You covered it in one comment he's a salesman, his bottom line is to sell you a board from the up market range.
At this stage I would recommend that you go with a knowledgeable surfing mate, choose a good quality secondhand board of suitable volume and length, if you want to end up as a shortboarder cool but get the volume for paddling if you cannot paddle to catch a wave you are buying very expensive frustrations. As you learn the progression of boards you use will change and you can pass your boards and knowledge down the line.

I'll shout this LEARNING IS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO CATCH WAVES NOT FLOUNDERING, LEARNING IS ABOUT GETTING THE BASICS RIGHT FIRST,
LEARNING IS ABOUT HAVING FUN ABOVE THE LEVEL OF YOUR FRUSTRATIONS.
LEARNING IS SURFING SURFING SURFING AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, BOOKS, FACT FINDING, HAS NO BEARING UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE READING ABOUT.
SURFING IS A PHYSICAL SPORT WHERE THE LEARNING COMES FROM DOING

Get something that makes the first stages the easiest they can be

[daaaaaave]

thanks Jaffa, i appreciate the input

[billie_morini]

We are the same height and I'n not too much heavier than you. I learend on a long board. Everyone I have taught to surf has been taught to surf using a longboard. A longboard is close to ideal because it provides lots of floatation and that is what beginners need lots of. I'd suggest you get a 9-foot longboard. I would not support using the 6 1/2 foot board you saw in the surf shop because it doesn't provide much floatation and, because you are a complete beginner, you won't be able to paddle a board this short fast enough to catch waves. I'm not a big fan of funboards because I find they do nothing well and require more powerful waves than a longboard does. I've seen beginners wobble like crazy and not be able to stand up on funboards. I've seen some of these same surfers get on one of my 9-foot boards and stand right up.

And, you need to watch this short video right away:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7192093/

[daaaaaave]

cool, thanks for the info billie.
i went in originally to check out longboards or funboards, as per the recommendation of friends and forums, and you guys are basically reiterating what ive heard. ill likely go with something much larger than the 6'6 that the shop guy was trying to sell me, for cost reasons alone.
in any case, i think what he was trying to tell me, was that that board specifically was one that would suit a beginner because it has the volume/float of a longboard.
i guess i was asking more specifically if anyone had any experience with a 6'6" firewire addvance, and if a shortboard with longboard like volume could possibly work for a beginner, as opposed to the usual starting with an actual longboard. is it the volume that matters, or volume + length?
in any case id like to know how to ride both in the long run so maybe its a moot point.

[billie_morini]

dave with many A's,
there is no such thing as a short board with long board dimensions. Watch the video again and, please, remain stoked.
billie

[daaaaaave]

but billie, i want a shortboard. i surfed once in the bahamas when i was ten. i need some tips, please.

[billie_morini]

dave with many A's,
Bravo!
billie

[jaffa1949]

but billie, i want a shortboard. i surfed once in the bahamas when i was ten. i need some tips, please.

AAAAAAAAh Daaaave the mythical board that does everything from mushburgers to outer pipe awaits you at the end of your quest, it's just over the rainbow.
The voluminous boards can be the very expensive shop recommended thingies or you can go with epoxy thai factory fun boards that have both the volume and float and can have a shorter profile and realistic rails. Those in the know will be aware of your level of learning as you head to the water, that's OK you woud be better limiting yourself to suitable breaks at this stage
I know you want to drive the surfing equivalent of a formula one racer, but right now you need a serviceable volkswagen, get your surfing /driving in order then step up.

FFS just go surfing!

[esonscar]

The waves dude - 2ft and glassy beats 8ft and gnarly - its the waves dude.

[Captainpigpen]

Billie, sorry matey, you are NEVER gonna convince a guy to get the sensible board that he will catch waves on, enjoy and progress, Daaaaave want's a 5'8" Al Marrick!!! That's why there are soooo many available second hand for us to pick up?
Heard it a million times, as well as " but that wont fit in my car" !!!!
Get a performance Mini Mal if you don't want a 9' ( god knows why not ) It will look cool when you walk down the beach.

[jaffa1949]

Hi again Daaaaaaaave, here it is the definitive volume versus length answer!
Volume of a board can be increased by adding length or thickness or both! Then the floatation can be increased by the materials the board is made of. Roughly speaking a PU board and normal resin will give less floatational volume than an epoxy board of the same dimensions.
You can subtract or add floatation by thickening or thinning the layers of glass, effecting strength and lightness. Step decks, loaded domes are attempt to give volume without giving fatarse rails, therebye surrendering power and manouverability in turns. But wait there's more, board stiffness or flexibility for you to consider.
All this is what is tweaked to give the responses a surfer desires at their own level of skill.
When all is added and subtracted you have the functional volume

Here is your answer, neither volume or length are the most important! it is the combination of each that floats your boat.
The board must be easy to paddle to catch waves otherwise you just be a priority buoy. Length well again, easy to paddle easy to catch nose if long, but if you're learning you'll do that on whatever! PADDLE POWER .
Too much volume and floatation, hard to duck dive and drive under white water corky on turns, ( in other words harder to dig a rail to push the turn.)
Some boards to consider and since your don't need coolth,
Try a 7S of both epoxy and normal construction gives volume, the epoxy is floatier and you could probably go shorter on the epoxy.
There are some mid range surftec boards I have a G&S magic fish as my mid lengther, floats like a long board.

Just another thought the smaller you go the less stable you are going to be in your learning phase you will wobble yourself to frustration especially if you only surf occasionally.

Go to your local surf shop or among your friends borrow boards, figure out your answer, it is different for everyone.

Now stop worrying and go surfing as often as possible on as many boards as you can get hold of

[Kaaimans]

I'm going to go totally against what most people would say, but I feel it is necessary, since there is more to learning to surf than just the actual act of catching waves. You want to be able to duckdive your board, you want to be able to turn it around fast enough when sitting on it, you want to be able to manuver it around when paddling, but you also want a lot of boyancy and drive in your board. I'd say go for a fish shape, but 6'8"-6'10", really thick, and quite wide.

That way you will have less boyancy than a 9ft longboard, but you will be much more comfortable on the board. It is all about overall comfortability. Go to small and you won't be catching waves, go to big and you won't be able to take off when it gets steeper, you won't be able to turn the board around when the wave comes, you won't be able to move the board on the wave, you won't be able to duckdive, and the board will only be useful for the first few months of your surfing career, and then it will hold you back. If you are fit I'll go for a fish shaped 6'8", but if you are not fit at all I'd go for 7ft, if you are an average person go for the 6'10".

Get this board shaped, since you are unlikely to find a 6'10" fish.
You don't want a longboard, I learned on one, it SUCKED. A minimal would be better, but still, NO. A huge version of the fish will be perfect. It can turn, it can catch any wave, and it will last you at least your first year.

On the minimal I learned on I could catch waves, but then it took me so long to turn into the face the fast pointbreak wave that the wave closed on me. (All the surf spots in town is rocky points and reefs, the beachie only had foamy closeouts, so after about 2 weeks I paddled into a pointbreak, and a month after that to a reef, which I ended up to surf much. Oh, and did I mention that I came from Bloemfontein, which is right smack in the middle of South Africa, as far from a beach as one could get, and only recently moved down here in Mossel Bay at the time.)

Get a big fish. If you are really fit, then go for a 6'6" FISH, one that is at least 2.8" thick, preferably 3", and 22" wide.
That would be as close to a shortboard as you should go for now. I wouldn't go for a minimal personally, unless the waves you are surfing are quite slow.
I had to learn in harsh conditions, got my feet cut up every single day, and had to deal with faster waves than I can surf, and a fish would have helped me tremendously. I first went for the minimal, got sick of it and got a 6'2", that was to short, and then went to a 6'6", that was quite good but a bit bulky since I was already surfing for a year then, and then I finally got a 6'3", a bit short and narrow, (I'm 6'2" and weigh 80kg, don't know how many pounds that is.) but that pushed me to the inside and made me learn to take off on the steeper waves.

All in all I see the benefits of a slightly shorter board than is good for catching waves easily, but not so short that you won't be catching any at all. The benefits of a 6'8" thick and wide fish outweigh the loss in paddle speed you get from going under 7ft. DON'T GO OVER 7'2" UNLESS YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY A SHORTER BOARD IN 4 MONTHS TIME! Don't go under 6'6" and FAT unless you are OK with struggling your first year.

[wopfish]

It all depends on where you see your self at - wether you want to ride using a short board and its associated style - or if you want to be a long boarder and do that kind of surfing. Often people start of longboards / mals as a starting point to then work their way down to a short board - but I think thats a false economy. And if you want to be riding a shortboard then I rekon you need to be at least looking at those kind of shapes.....

You'll need float and paddling ability to start off - so perhaps something longer to start off with ( of a short board style ). Speak to as many people in board shops as you can and dont rush into it If I was you talk to them about the breaks you'll surf and how often you hope to do it. If youve got the money and commitment speaking to a local shaper might also put you in a good position. Try and steer clear of surfing warehouse cloth stores that sell boards as you might not get want you need. Also it might be worth seeing if you can get out on a demo board or two and see how you get on.